Holy Cow!!!!! What happened??????

[AnotherStander]

I don't really know. She still hasn't asked to get together. The closest she's come was to say "we should get together when you return from XXXX" I said "I'd like that". She knows my schedule, so I figured if she wants to get together, she'll suggest a time and place. I'm just going about my life, and putting no pressure on her. When we do get together, I intend for us to have a talk about her actions not backing up her words, and until they do, there's not much else to discuss.

Sounds like a great plan! How's everything else going?

[Jim1234]

Sounds like a great plan! How's everything else going?

Life's going pretty well. I went up to my folk's cabin this weekend, played golf with dad (he still beats me. sigh), helped out with my mom (bad back), and generally chilled. The kids are doing well. D17 and I are in a good place. I'm helping her with college apps, and arranging and taking her on college visits. That means a lot of time together in the car, which is wonderful. I don't allow them to use their cellphones (I'm not their chauffeur.), so we have wonderful talks. Had nice phone calls with S19, and he and I are really good. Classes started last week, and I was going to pop by tomorrow, see his new apartment, and take him to lunch tomorrow, but work assigned him a shift so it's not worth my going. I'm baking brownies that I'll send him instead.

Had a discussion regarding who pays the taxes on an asset we sold last year with STBXW last week. We disagreed, but it was very civil. (The settlement agreement is totally on my side here.) I missed an opportunity to validate and say "I'm confident you can handle this," but I totally kept my cool and only very respectfully disagreed. We agreed to think about it some more and get back together. We filed for tax return extensions, so this issue has to be resolved by Oct 15, or really, earlier, so her tax guy can finish her taxes by then.

[Jim1234]

Checking in with a quick bit of journaling...

The tax issue has been solved. I ran some numbers showing her different ways of doing it, and basically, doing things her way resulted in her owing me about 10 grand, so we are going with my way. I'll send my taxes in this evening.

After our discussion, she left the country for a few weeks to take care of her mom, so I sent an email basically saying I didn't feel like I was very important to her. We are supposed to be reconciling, but she hadn't asked me to get together in the 8 weeks we've been "reconciling" except to talk about the taxes. I mentioned some other issues that she brought up during our tax conversation, and said that it seems the only reason she wanted to reconcile was money.

Her reply focused almost entirely on the other issues. I emailed back and told her that I should have left the other issues out because the main point, that I didn't feel important to her, seemed to have been missed. I said she talks a good game, but her actions haven't backed up her words. I said I thought I might be wasting my time hoping for something that's never going to happen. She hasn't replied.

The good news is, I'm good. My taxes are done, and if she doesn't start acting like I'm important to her as soon as she gets home, I'm good with moving on. This will also solve the marriage counselling question, too, because if she acts like I'm important to her, we won't need to go, and if she doesn't, we won't need to go then, either.

[Jim1234]

Sat down yesterday afternoon with STBXW at an outdoor cafe and had a nice chat for a few hours. Of course we discussed the emails I sent her about not feeling important to her. Overall it was a nice conversation. Even the discussion about the emails was pleasant and nonconfrontational. She expressed fear that my emails indicated I was reverting to pre DB behavior. I validated, let her know that guy was gone forever, thanked her for leaving me so I could learn how pathetic he was, and asked her to let me know if she thought he was returning. I also very plainly and very clearly let her know that her actions didn't back up her words, and if she expected me to want to reconcile, that needed to change. When my parking meter expired, I politely told her I was driving up to the cabin for the night, had to get on the road, and left.

We still intend to get divorced. At this point it's just a piece of paper and it can be easily changed. All we're waiting on is for my retirement fund to be divided per the QDRO, which was projected to have been finished last week (don't know what the holdup was and don't really care), and then the final dissolution of marriage paperwork, which should take another week or two.

I feel great. Nice night at the cabin. Got the work done that needed doing, and if she wants to do the work, great. And if not, that's great, too.

[scout12]

You sound like you're in a great place, Jim. Congratulations on getting there.

[Jim1234]

update... a lot of this will probably retell some older posts of mine.

In my last update, I said we sat down and I explained I just didn't feel important to her, and in previous posts, we all discussed the importance of action over words

STBXW has been gone much of the time since then. She spent a little over a week in England getting her mother's flat cleaned out and ready to be rented, and then two weeks on vacation with her sister. In between then and now, the only times I saw her were when we bumped into each other at a school function for D18, at a Halloween party we both attended, and lastly at dinner for D18s birthday. Not a phone call the entire 5 weeks, hardly any texts that weren't logistical in nature regarding the kids, and certainly no mention of getting together when she was home.

When we saw each other at the beginning of October, one of the things discussed was my chasing her for attention during our marriage, and chasing her right out the door. I told her I've learned my lesson, and I'm not chasing her anymore. And I haven't. I asked her to get together two or three times in the first few weeks of our "reconciliation", but when she said she couldn't, I haven't asked since.

Actions over words, not feeling important to her, not a priority for her. All things that were issues in our marriage.

Anyway, two weeks ago, when she was on vacation, I sent her an email that said, "I think it’s important when you get back that we sit down and talk about your expectations for us, because frankly, I’m a little disappointed in how things are going." She said, "we'll talk when I get home." She had been home a week, and I hadn't heard anything from her that wasn't about the kids.

So two days ago, I sent her this: "I was hoping my email to you in Tenerife would prompt some change, but it hasn’t. I wanted to talk to you about this in person, and I’ve been waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, so here it is in an email. I’d be happy to talk to you about it at length, but this “reconciliation” just isn’t working for me. I feel like 1) I’m just not that important to you, and 2) We just don’t want the same kind of marriage. I feel I am facing a lifetime of disappointment if we stay together because I feel my needs will never be met. I bear you no ill will, and want nothing but good things for you. I’d still like for you to join us for Thanksgiving if you wish." She replied immediately and suggested we get together for lunch to discuss it.

We had a long lunch. Very friendly, open, honest. A discussion of my need to feel important to her, her lack of actions over words. It was a long discussion, wide ranging. Her feelings, my feelings. In the end, she was clear that she wants a different kind of relationship than I do She said she just can't provide what I want, and as I walked her to her car, summed things up by saying "So, I guess that's it, then?" and she said "I guess we just want different things.
You don't seem terribly upset". I assured her I wasn't upset at all, and we got in our cars and drove away.

I thought about it in the car, and sent her this text when I got home. "... the "relationship" you want is no real relationship at all. I am sorry for hurting you over the years so badly you won't try for a real relationship with me. I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad." I've received no response. Upon further reflection, I don't know if she's capable of making someone else a priority, and in my mind, that's probably THE most important thing in a marriage, or any kind of relationship.

The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter.

So, what now? I don't know. I have a significant long term home repair project going on and almost finished (yea! only another month or so! yea!). I've been talking to my ex GF (that I broke up with to explore this reconciliation) about this repair project (she works in insurance and has been a HUGE help in trying to get some help there), and some help she needs that directly relates to my area of expertise. I miss her, and my first reaction was, man, I gotta call her and see if we can get back together. My second reaction was, "is that fair to her"? I can't have my first choice, so should I just ask my second choice if she's still available? That seems kind of $hitty. My third is, do I really want to get back together? Obviously, I wasn't so enthralled that I wasn't willing to throw her over in favor of my STBX. But then again, the idea of dating isn't appealing, and I enjoy her company.

So...... I've got a lot of good things happening, and lots of options.

I'll figure it out.

[Thornton]

Sorry to hear about the latest developments, Jim. Although this wasn’t what you wanted, you know you’re going to be just fine. Your wife is definitely exhibiting some avoidant tendencies by being so wishy washy and unreliable. Not much you can do about that except to continue to detach and let her go, which you seem to being to doing already.

Take care.

[Jim1234]

Thanks Thornton. I think my biggest problem is that intellectually, I know I'll be ok, and I'll figure it out, but emotionally, I just can't seem to cut that last thread of attachment and move on. And I hate to admit it, and I know I deserve some 2X4s, but I worry that if she came to me a week/year/whatever from now and said she really wanted to commit, I'd give her another chance, even knowing it was unlikely to succeed..

Oh well. Time heals all wounds.

[AnotherStander]

We had a long lunch. Very friendly, open, honest. A discussion of my need to feel important to her, her lack of actions over words. It was a long discussion, wide ranging. Her feelings, my feelings. In the end, she was clear that she wants a different kind of relationship than I do She said she just can't provide what I want, and as I walked her to her car, summed things up by saying "So, I guess that's it, then?" and she said "I guess we just want different things.
You don't seem terribly upset". I assured her I wasn't upset at all, and we got in our cars and drove away.

I thought about it in the car, and sent her this text when I got home. "... the "relationship" you want is no real relationship at all. I am sorry for hurting you over the years so badly you won't try for a real relationship with me. I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad." I've received no response. Upon further reflection, I don't know if she's capable of making someone else a priority, and in my mind, that's probably THE most important thing in a marriage, or any kind of relationship.

Hey Jim, first I'll say that your recon never has really gotten off the ground, it really didn't seem like your W was ever "all in" on it. I don't blame you at all for the talk, and for stating how you felt about it. But I think you took it too far with that text- "I suspect you will never open up for a real relationship with someone in the future, and that makes me very sad". You don't know what she's thinking or feeling, and to say something like that just comes off sounding vindictive and a little petty. If you're going to end things then try and leave it on a positive note. Wish her the best, and hope that she goes on to a great life without you! Everyone deserves to be happy, even our exes.

The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter.

Well you're right, it doesn't matter. She's not listening to you for whatever reason. Focus on actions, not words.

So, what now? I don't know. I have a significant long term home repair project going on and almost finished (yea! only another month or so! yea!). I've been talking to my ex GF (that I broke up with to explore this reconciliation) about this repair project (she works in insurance and has been a HUGE help in trying to get some help there), and some help she needs that directly relates to my area of expertise. I miss her, and my first reaction was, man, I gotta call her and see if we can get back together. My second reaction was, "is that fair to her"? I can't have my first choice, so should I just ask my second choice if she's still available? That seems kind of $hitty. My third is, do I really want to get back together? Obviously, I wasn't so enthralled that I wasn't willing to throw her over in favor of my STBX. But then again, the idea of dating isn't appealing, and I enjoy her company.

Now what you do is give yourself some time. Time without W, time without GF. Just Jim time. Pour yourself into finishing that project and whatever other GAL stuff you have going. Pick up some new GAL activities! Enjoy yourself, don't sweat an R for now. With time your path ahead will become clearer.

[SteveLW]

Jim, just read your last update. First a 2x4: You still came across as too needy. I am glad you didn't "The only two things I wish had gone differently in our talk was I wish I had focused more on the importance of making your partner a priority in a relationship, and calling her out on her excuses about not being capable of putting more effort into the relationship, but it doesn't matter." Those would have been mistakes. She would see what you were doing "I NEED more!, Please give it to me so we can reconcile!" See how needy that comes across?

I also wish you hadn't reached out to her. At all. I feel like all of that was a test. Remember, people want what they don't have. When did she want you? When you were with your GF. As soon as you jettisoned the GF and you were "available" she went ice-cold. Let that be a serious lesson for you. I feel all of this was one giant, "I should see if I could get him back!" temp-check. Trust me, I've been through it with my ex-GF. It feels like crap because it is a crappy thing for someone to do to another person. It toys with their emotions and their life. Do you really want to be with someone capable of that?

Other than that I think you handled it well. The "You don't seem that upset" was a key indicator that you did well.

As far as the ex-GF, maybe it isn't meant to be. Maybe it is. Maybe asking her out and just laying everything out on the table would let you know if there is a possibility of getting back together. You weren't married to her, so it isn't like you made a long-term commitment to her, and then broke it to explore you reconciliation with your STBXW. Or you start dating others again. The world is your oyster.

I will warn you, if you get back into a R with someone new (or the ex-GF) your STBXW may very well come calling again. And even harder this time. Treat it extremely skeptically. Someone like her is capable of the emotion and life toying because, quite frankly, she's already done it!! True colors my friend.

Sorry man, but look at it this way, nothing was gained but nothing was lost in all of this.

(BRO HUGS)