Yes, Steve, no matter the outcome, you will be more than just okay. You will be great.
Do you see her behavior (enjoying attention from OM) as a "relapse" in that it disappeared and then resurfaced? Or is it possible that it has been there and you didn't know? Or more so, even if she was not engaging in it, could it be that it is something she continued to want? I guess I find it telling that she said outright that she enjoys it and thinks you should accept it. That is bold, but also honest.
That idea alone would really bother me if it were my H. So even if I asked him to stop, and he did stop, it would bother me to know that he still craved the attention of OW. That is why I am asking.
I gave Neffer a hard time because he talked about overcoming the desire for OW and how it can take a long time. I know on a cerebral level that it makes sense, but I also know myself, and I just couldn't feel attraction to my H if I believed he craved attention/desire for any OW. I feel like after all the cr-p we have been through over the years, if he is here and with me, he better be sure it is what he wants. And he knows me well enough to know I am not interested in sharing -- that is not my jam.
Blu
IDK Blu, I guess how do you really know? I've spent so much of this marriage unhappy myself, looking outwardly towards other potentials as well. I met a couple of girls while W and I were dating that came back into the picture after we were married. Admittedly my attention was distracted by them, though I never followed through. I mean how do you really know if someone is craving attention from others? You don't always. So while I understand what you're saying, and I agree, it's a hard to enforce something like that. I don't like it, but I'm sure in her alone private moments she misses what it was he was providing for her. Is that something to give up on the MR over? Probably not at this point.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, I hope and believe you are taking this all to heart. You're hearing it from multiple sources,..and the advice is based on your own version of the story.
Many women and men for that part, are attracted to unattainable love. Meaning people that there is little to no chance that these people could ever turn into a real suiter. Think about how some only flirt with married people. It fits their MO of comfort. That is at least for the initial parts of the R. In a sick way, it feels safe. Read about it.
I don't think anyone here is saying it's time to throw in the towel. Your potential post MR options are irrelevant.
Just don't downplay the event. IMO, your W has much work to do. Nothing that you can fix. All you can do is set strick boundaries and hold her to them. Then at that point, you can make any decisions regarding this MR.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
IDK Blu, I guess how do you really know? I've spent so much of this marriage unhappy myself, looking outwardly towards other potentials as well. I met a couple of girls while W and I were dating that came back into the picture after we were married. Admittedly my attention was distracted by them, though I never followed through. I mean how do you really know if someone is craving attention from others? You don't always. So while I understand what you're saying, and I agree, it's a hard to enforce something like that. I don't like it, but I'm sure in her alone private moments she misses what it was he was providing for her. Is that something to give up on the MR over? Probably not at this point.
I think you just know. I feel that I am an intuitive person, but I think we all are if we pay attention to it. Sure, we can try and convince ourselves and others that things are the way we want them to be, but in our gut we can sense the way reality stands. Far before my BD, I knew something was off with my H. And then after the separation when he wanted back in, I could feel a shift in his energy before he said anything -- the smallest changes started long before he told me he wanted me back, for example he would hang on to a conversation just a couple minutes longer. And even now, years later, it feels obvious to me when we have a close intimate connection and when there is more distance.
Something told you to check up on her. If you didn't have any suspicions, you most likely would not have followed through on that. The point I am stuck on with your W is that she told you directly that this is what she wants, she doesn't have a problem with it and that you should accept that. She was as clear as she possibly could be.
So you have to ask yourself if you are okay with that. Even if she sticks to your rules of being off games/screens/communicating w/ OMs, you may have to accept that she still craves it. And also that she only stopped because you caught her and told her to stop. You said that it is not a reason to give up on a MR and that is a respectable choice. We each have to decide what is right for us. I just want to make sure you really truly are okay with that. Because my sense is that you want a deeper/intimate connection and that her attention-seeking is derailing that.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I had been in trust but verify mode for the last year and half. If you read my threads you'll see that I snooped a few times. This was the first time I found something. To your point, I was a little more suspicious this time than the times before when I found nothing though.
Also, her "this makes my happy" defiance was the on the night I confronted. After that she was admitted it was wrong and she shouldn't have been engaging in that. She has since, in our long discussion, said she knows that isn't what married women should do. So to be clear, in her defensive stance the night I confronted, she said that, but then backed off on that. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. In the heat of our sitches we don't always do a great job of conveying the nuances.
Finally, I put no rules in place. I've said from the beginning that I have no desire to try to control her, nor the desire to be constantly policing her. The rules in place she self-imposed. My only boundary here is for me. If it comes to my knowledge that she's engaging in EA behavior again then I'll take appropriate action.
I mentioned IC last night as we were going to bed. I'm not giving up on that boundary either. If she doesn't get into IC soon then I'm going to consider what happens next.
Last edited by Steve85; 09/03/1909:42 AM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
All the very best of luck Steve! Hoping the recent crisis was just a nasty little aberration mate. If your wife is fiery this could explain the defiance when confronted, then the subsequent backdown. Keep going until you can’t anymore! Cheers D
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
All the very best of luck Steve! Hoping the recent crisis was just a nasty little aberration mate. If your wife is fiery this could explain the defiance when confronted, then the subsequent backdown. Keep going until you can’t anymore! Cheers D
Thanks for the support DS9! My W Can be fiery when she feels backed into a corner. I tried to confront as lovingly as I could, did so firmly. I even called her out on her defiance. Which seemed to take her aback. She tends to try to deflect when confronted about something, but usually comes back later contrite and apologetic. And that's the pattern she followed in this instance as well. Of course, she also came back with "he really didn't mean anything", so some typical script following as Sandi pointed out. Another thing that stood out was when I asked her in a follow-up discussion how long it had been going on, she responded with a very quick "about 3 weeks". As if she rehearsed that answer. She usually has to think about questions like that.
This is why you always have to remember "believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do".
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
There are obviously many nuances and we don't get to see what you see. I am glad to see a more strong and pragmatic approach on your part.
One of the things that I saw when you came on the board is that your W never really got to the end of the line of her fantasy and being a WW. Both times previously it was short circuited and there is potential for things to change when that happens. But as others have pointed out, you have done all the work since you got here and she barely has. I feel that she's gotta either go to the end of the line with her fantasy and see what's there, or get into IC and address her WW tendencies. There is a lack of depth in her life for herself and I fear that it may have to do with self-love, self-acceptance, and understanding her place as a woman in this world, not just a mother.
I did have a radical suggestion of what you should do, but I fear that it isn't something I would even be able to do despite our differences when it comes to religion and its place in your life.
Ultimately it comes down to her doing the work for herself and you keeping your boundaries.
All I know is that our lives are paradoxically short and long, as we have to hold both contradictory perspectives to have a meaningful fulfilling life, and I know that I wouldn't want to spend those times with someone who wasn't going to be present with me. As Blu mentioned, I believe you are looking for fulfillment. I hope you can figure out how to find it. DB is great in terms of tactics and strategies, but we have to take a macro perspective on what kinds of relationships we want and what's worth investing in.
We humans have a tendency to double down on sunk costs and a long R is a sunk cost, which makes it difficult to walk away. It is good to hear that you are maneuvering past that and showing some readiness to walk away if it comes down to it.
No worries Steve. Just after reading maikas post, I’m wondering if there’s unresolved childhood traumas that subconsciously drive her behaviour? If there’s one thing I learned since my bd is unresolved childhood trauma is sometimes the key. What’s the childhood story behind her. I self searched and reckon 90% of my behaviour is learned from childhood. I had no idea whatsoever before I found out and looked. Look to her childhood. Talk to her about this if this is possible. Read up about subconscious and preconscious behaviour. If she can’t control it it’s because she doesnt know the source. It’s worth a shot if you haven’t looked at this angle. Good luck
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
