Persistent Endurance (Part 6)

[AnotherStander]

W came over yesterday to feed the horses and pick up the kids. She stayed for a few hours.

Curtis, it sure seems like I'm repeating myself a lot here but she is never, ever going to learn to miss you as long as you let her swing by and hang out for hours and do whatever she wants. Until you remove yourself from the equation you will forever be Plan B. She's never going to miss you, she's never going to be attracted to you.

It doesn’t appear to me that she is making this a priority, her heart just isn’t in it and I’m not going to force her to do the work.

But you are forcing her and applying a TON of pressure to her. It's got to stop.

W: “What, I see that look on your face?”
H: “It seems like you plan on being there a while.”

I don't mean to offend, but as a person outside your situation I read things like this and it just sounds very desperate and pathetic. You need to be projecting an air of masculinity and strength and right now you are not. If you want her back you've got to remake yourself into a strong, attractive, confident individual.

W: “I feel pressure and that you have expectations of me. I want zero expectations.”
H: “I don’t know what we’re doing with the Retrouvaille then. Im not expecting anything from you. I’ve been waiting for you to tell me that you’ve ended it with the OM.”

She's right, everything you say and do is full of expectations. You're practically begging.

W: “I did end it. I haven’t seen him in over a month and I’ve been NC for a week and a half.”
H: “So, a couple days before we attended Retrouvaille?”
W: “Yes”
H: “Why did you tell me at the weekend that there was still contact.”

Why are you cross-examining her. To be honest it's all none of your business. The two of you are separated, I'm surprised she's offering up as much info as she does. You're acting like the two of you are in a relationship but you are not.

W still doesn’t understand that love is a choice and once you fully commit, the feelings can follow.

And you don't understand that in order for her to love you again, she first has to be ATTRACTED to you again. She is not just going to choose you and say "well let's see what happens". WAS's are working off of emotions and feelings, not logic. She MUST have FEELINGS for you again before she will want you back. So ask yourself what do you think sounds more attractive to her:

A) Sad, desperate, clingy shell of a man applying constant pressure with relationship talks, letting her come by whenever she wants and spend hours, practically begging her to see the error of her ways, watching as she engages in affairs and pretends it's not happening.

-or-

B) Confident, attractive, independent man who doesn't put up with her crap, who tells her if she chooses not to be with him then he chooses to move on to better things. She wants to come by and hang out and he tells her no, that's not going to happen because we are no longer in a relationship and you can't have it both ways. She sees him dressing better, getting fit, engaging in fun activities without her. He never asks her about ANYTHING in her life because that's her mess and he's leaving her to it. He ignores all chit chat messages and tells her to limit contact to bills or the kids, period.

Right now you are A all day long. And she knows it. She's walking all over you. The good news is you can start being B right now, right this second. But you have to choose it and commit to it.

And Curtis, stop saying you are B when you are really A. That's not what I mean. You have to REALLY become B.

[Traveler]

Hi Curtis,

W told me she bought a desk at a garage sale for the other house. I must of had a look on my face of displeasure and W noticed.

Curtis, that's an expectation and pressure. Look friend, I relate. Yesterday, my partner said, "I picked out a couch--soon we can snuggle more comfortably at my place, too!" I heard, "I love you, but I don't plan to return anytime soon." The difference is that I'd accepted the loss already--see my blogging yesterday--so instead of a sad face I replied, "I enjoy snuggling with you." I didn't temp-check. I'd already felt the loss and mourned it. I hope for more. I accept reality. I choose how I respond.

You said a few times you would tell a friend to do differently than you are doing. Are you your own friend? You should be! "So, your wife's been wayward with at least 3 OM this past year, has no feelings for you, has asked for true separation.... you should.." how would you finish that advice.. for a friend?

[MrBrside]

Curtis,

on the 15th March you wrote

it wasn’t until the beginning of March that I finally let her go and grasped the damage of my push behavior and importance of detaching.

To a degree I dislike replying to your posts, as i feel like i ( plus others ) are just bashing you... But at the same time i just want to help you snap out of this la la land you chose to exist in. I use the word exist, and until you move on, you really are not living.

Look at all the replys after your post last week.. About 10 people replied, but you came on here to go into the details on your chats with WW..

I look back at my initial posts and i cringe at what i wrote. I believe i felt like that at the time, but 9 months later i am a different person and realise i saw my relationship / WW wearing rose coloured glasses. I learnt so much from advise on here and my life is so much better than it was 9 month ago. I look better, i feel better and apart from the WW using the children to try and control me, i am in a better place. An amazing place even..

I just hope that at some point ( sooner rather than later ) you will snap out of la la land...

[LH19]

C,

I think the reason why everyone gets frustrated with you is because you get great advice and ignore it. Plus in nearly a year you have made zero progress. That’s why we are trying to get you to start now with the basics because you are causing more damage with the pursuit and pressure then you realize. Start DBing today.

[curtis7]

When I posted about Retrouvaille a week ago, many of the replies were that she was still in an A and I needed to cut her off completely. I sensed something different, she had changed ever so slightly. I can’t expect her to come running back immediately, although I had hopes as I was reaching the end of my tolerance for living in an open MR.

I hear all of you crystal clear. It seems I am back at square one. If W has ended her A’s with the OM for good, then does that make her a WAW rather than a WW?

I know the same rules apply, but at least I don’t have to endure the pain of being cheated on. I’ve had several starts and stops with DBing in my sitch. I allowed many triggers to set me back. These were mostly due to new revelations surrounding her interactions with the OM.

I disagree that I’ve made zero progress in the past year. W has noticed my 180s. I am more detached. I don’t spy or snoop anymore. Once I found out the worst, I stopped that behavior. I’m sure DBing is easier when the LBS is not being actively betrayed. Believing that the A is over has sure had a calming effect on me and should allow for greater patience with time and space.

I really have tried to follow much of the advice given here. I need to follow the guidance Master Yoda: “Do or do not. There is no try.”

The 2x4’s are well deserved. I do feel re-inspired and more confident today and will do my best to DB.

[LH19]

C,

What makes you so sure she has stopped the affair?

I think there is another important fact that you seem to forget is that she doesn't want to be with you and is not attracted to you. She is keeping you on the hook as plan b while she seeks out OM4, 5 and 6.

What do her ACTIONS of buying a desk for her house tell you?

What are these 180s you speak of?

[ovrrnbw]

C,

DB 101:

Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do

Time + Space

Respect + Attraction

Validation + Listening

GAL

Boundaries

You don't know whether or not she is in an A. You don't have a way of knowing. She lied about the affair, what's another lie at this point? Focus on DB 101.

[AnotherStander]

If W has ended her A’s with the OM for good, then does that make her a WAW rather than a WW?

WW is more of a mindset, WW's are rebellious and tend to push away loved ones (including their children) to pursue a GGW lifestyle. WAW's are just kind of "over" their marriage, they just don't want to be married to the LBS anymore and they usually don't even know why. They're just done. But WAW's usually don't push their children away, so at least in my opinion that's usually the biggest litmus test. Now both of them don't consider themselves married anymore after BD. So to them they're not engaging in an "affair" especially if they've already separated. The marriage doesn't exist anymore to them, it's just a nuisance written down on paper somewhere. So while the LBS looks at an affair as a despicable act, to the WAS it's just them "moving on".

With that said, no matter whether she's a WW or WAW the real question isn't "is the A over" because she can easily engage in another or go back to the previous one on a moment's notice. The real question is this- is she invested in making the M work? And of course in your case she's not, which is the point we've been trying to get through to you. She's not trying 100%, or 50%, or 10% or even 1%. She's just not. She doesn't want that right now. Will she ever? That depends on what you do moving forward.

[joejoe1]

Oh boy,

Come on Curtis!!!!!

You aren't listening are using the advice here, that is evident from your comments you are leaving on your thread. I told you, you are applying to much pressure in my prior post. Guess what you still are doing that behavior.

You have 180 the things you wanted to 180. How about you 180 applying pressure, how about 180 applying DB advice. Because you aren't using them at the moment.

Every post you write has a hint of, "my wife has done this minuscule thing" and then you jump to acting like the M might be back on. She told you that RV was too much pressure and you follow up with trying to get her to work on the assignments. You can't force a person to be with you.

You are talking about the A being over, and how it's has made you feel better knowing the A is over. WHAT!!!!! If you were DBing her A and whatever she's doing wouldn't be bothering you.

You say things like, " I’m sure DBing is easier when the LBS is not being actively betrayed." This is one of the main reasons to DB. Making a statement like that shows your progress!!! It's not that much.

So let's add it up:

We told you to get rid of the horses or let your WW know she needs to come get her horses: Horses are still at your home.

We said, stop interacting with your WW and talking about your R and M: Just this past weekend end, you spent the weekend talking about exactly that.

We told you to stop applying pressure: Just this weekend you ramp up the pressure.

We told you to you need time and space away from your WW: You spent this weekend practically begging her to come back to you.

We told you to work on getting your respect back: You spent this weekend losing respect.

So, you haven't work to gain your RESPECT back, you haven't gave her TIME or SPACE, you haven't stopped the R and M talks, you haven't stopped applying PRESSURE, you haven't gotten rid of the horses or told her she needs to come and find a place for them (which in my opinion is an excuse for you to see your WW).

So where are the changes happening at. You profess you have 180ed some behaviors, which ones?

Joejoe

[Traveler]

, you haven't gotten rid of the horses or told her she needs to come and find a place for them (which in my opinion is an excuse for you to see your WW).

This would be an amazing actiony 180. If you're willing to do anything, would you try this?