I would like to know from the vets. When a WW starts to question her choices and the A fog lifts ever so slightly, is that not the time to be there for support rather than alienating her? Showing her that I'm the better option?
Curtis, let me quote back a few things you said:
"On Sunday morning, she confirmed that she is still in contact with OM3 and does not plan to end contact."
"talks and/or texts with him daily"
"Apparently, the feelings for OM3 and the “in love” A fog are too strong."
"It’s clear he is more important to her than me, our MR, and our family right now."
"She wrote that she sees how hard I’ve tried and how much I’ve changed. Yet, attraction has not returned."
"She wrote she can’t see a future together right now. "
"said she hasn’t felt like we were separated and she was completely off on her own. She wants to “feel separated."
In summary, she's still in an affair, she feels stuck to you even though you are separated and she wants to be on her own and "feel separated". HER FOG HAS NOT LIFTED ONE IOTA. This is not the time to try and be her best friend, because that is where you will stay. You want to show her you are the better option? Cut all contact with her. Tell her to get her horse out of there ASAP. Tell her you want her to respect your privacy and quit dropping by unannounced. Maybe then she will learn to miss you, because right now, she doesn't.
Ummmmmm......Are you punking us? If so you got me!! I get it you are hitting us with an episode of DB Forum Punk'ed.
But just in case you aren't punking us, I have to say I can see how your WW is not attracted to you. Your actions are very unattractive. You haven't DB or used any of Sandi's Rules for dealing with WWs. You are just floating in la la land.
People are on here pleading with you to DB and take actions that show your WW you are a strong and attractive man, and from some reason every post from you is about some form of hope.
What happens if your WW does come back, tomorrow because she breaks up with OM3? let me tell you, she finds OM4, because she is still WW. And you are so focused on her, and getting her back that you aren't listening or trying anything we are telling you.
You have been doing it your way for months now with no head way. We tell you to DB and drop to rope, so in the event your WW does come back, she comes back to a strong and confident man, that don't put up with her Sh$T. But you are so keen on not losing a person that is already gone that you are pushing further away from you.
IMO, you seem to be a very selfish person, let me explain, I think getting your W back is all about you, she's telling you want she wants, but you are trying to force her to do something she doesn't want to do at the moment. And you are relentless. That's a very unattractive position to be in and your WW seems to be fed up with it. That's were her actions are showing you. Her words are keeping you strung along for the stable benefit you provide.
Uhh.... Tell her to get on her fawkin horse, go west, and ride into the fastasy fog sunset. Curtis. Maybe you should watch Pet Cemetery a few times to see what happens when you bury your wife and keep digging her up again. (Alright Ill try not to be an A hole.) I get moments in my day where I feel like my life is over, I want to end it all, and them, Ill never be good enough, I can't change, I don't have a future, I'm mad, angry, resentful, forgiving, understanding, compassionate, all in the same 10 minutes...Every time this happens and my mind goes crazy about how to emotionally handle it. I eat something (Because I get negative and depressed when I'm hungry.) I say out loud. " I release you, I let you go, you no longer have power over me, my thoughts and my emotions. Then I tell myself, I must change. I must heal, and I must release this anger and stay commited to the process. I am without therapy, I have a very short temper, am a very emotional person, with a very low frustration tolerance, and a racing anxious mind with a lot of guilt from all of my relationships. I must contain and monitor my emotions, correct my internal dialog, rebuild myself and my confidence, and focus on exclusively me, what I can control, and how I show up. etc. These are just states, and old repetitive habits Curtis. Thinking about what was, is not what currently is, and we need to be aware of that. People want to be where they want to be for whatever reason they justify, right, wrong, or indifferent, and we must leave them there. But we can protect ourselves, and respond firmly with dignity, without being reactive facetious, OR WEAK!!! YOU ARE THE PRIZE CURTIS! You just don't realize it yet! Love is a choice and attraction dies for numerous reasons. Being a doormat, insecure, co dependant, needy, not enforcing boundaries, placating, words not matching actions, represent, bordeom, narcissistic behavior, delusional realities, take your pick. Control the frame, control your emotions, control your current reality, control your situation. She is never going to respect you if she lost it for you, and went WW. At this point in the game it shouldn't matter. She shouldn't matter. Her respect for you or opinion for you shouldn't matter. Have a backbone, keep your morals, your strength, your castle and your example for your kids. Don't ever give your strength to someone that no longer wants you. I've been weak plenty of times and strong plenty of times in my marriage, and my past relationships. No consistency. No respect.
I would even go as far finding a place to house/ rent a stable for the horse, and send her the bill. Arrange a public place locally for you to exchange the kids. Don't respond to chit chat, random phone calls or text messages. Don't allow her near the property unless she is legally entitled to. She is treating you like garbage that was thrown away in yesterdays trash heap. Set those boundaries and enforce them.
Thanks Thornton. The pimp in me comes out every now and again, and confidence and self respect briefly comes back when we know we can handle whatever comes at us, after all of us going through this step by step. All of us. Together. I love you guys. Curtis. Let this be a lesson. Not from me but from your W. NMMNG!!!! I gotta learn not to be such a hard@$$ at times and emotionally weak at others. Find the balance Curtis. Find something to do with yourself. Daydream about your future without W. Think about the endless freedom, the peace and quiet, the emotional stability, the non dramatic events. Just rest. Just you. Just you healing. Just your purpose. Just your wants, your rules, your principles, your desires. You are starting over again. So make it a good one to grow. Wolf. I hope you are getting this too, and all the other souls here that are hurting, She can't being you happiness. Only you can buddy, ironically its what attracts others to us, and it is also what repels people too when we are sour grapes, complacent, weak, etc. Repeat after me: "I am not for everybody, and everybody is not for me. I have the power to own up to my mistakes, fix them, remind myself daily that I am a good person. I must forgive others, and myself, and let go, but respect myself enough not to allow others to manipulate me."
W and I did complete most of the Retrouvaille dialogue questions this past week. We met on Tuesday and Friday to go over our responses with each other. On Tuesday, we covered the first 2 questions and she was still writing out her answers as I arrived. In her defense she had a tough week at work and was trying to solve a major problem on her own. So, I understood why she didn’t have time to be prepared in advance. On Friday, she had 1 of the 2 questions complete when she came over. One of the questions she answered was what good quality did you discover about your spouse during the Retrouvaille weekend? She answered that she felt inspired by my amazing capacity to forgive. She hopes that she will be able to forgive similarly. It seems to me that she has either felt my forgiveness for the lies and cheating or is trying to soften me up for forgiveness for these actions in the future. I have not forgiven for everything yet.
W came over yesterday to feed the horses and pick up the kids. She stayed for a few hours. I noticed she’s leaving her phone sit around more and is checking it less often lately. We started talking about Retrouvaille and she still doesn’t want to attend the post sessions, yesterday would have been the first post. I asked if we were still going to try to do the course work on our own as she suggested last weekend and she said maybe. She doesn’t seem to have a strong desire to do the work. She said the writing takes time and maybe it would be easier to talk about some questions. It doesn’t appear to me that she is making this a priority, her heart just isn’t in it and I’m not going to force her to do the work.
W told me she bought a desk at a garage sale for the other house. I must of had a look on my face of displeasure and W noticed. W: “What, I see that look on your face?” H: “It seems like you plan on being there a while.” W: “I feel pressure and that you have expectations of me. I want zero expectations.” H: “I don’t know what we’re doing with the Retrouvaille then. Im not expecting anything from you. I’ve been waiting for you to tell me that you’ve ended it with the OM.” W: “I did end it. I haven’t seen him in over a month and I’ve been NC for a week and a half.” H: “So, a couple days before we attended Retrouvaille?” W: “Yes” H: “Why did you tell me at the weekend that there was still contact.” W: “I didn’t know if it was over at that time and if he would try to contact me again.” H: “Would you share how you went NC?” W: “No, it was messy and he was angry. I feel bad for hurting him.” —> (Thinking to myself: Really, hurting him, WTF?! What about the hurt inflicted on your H and family?) W: “That doesn’t mean I want to come back and work on us. I’m still on the fence deciding which side to come down on.” H: “Are you waiting for your feelings to come back?” W: “Yes” H: “That could take a very long time like many months.” —> (this reminded me of one of Starsky’s posts, see below) W: “Am I just supposed to come back and hope my feelings return? I completely checked out last October. If I felt like I did a year and a half ago even, then it would be so much easier to come back.” H: “I don’t want to go back to a year and a half a ago. We can build something so much better now.” W: “I agree, but you know what I mean. I realize that a decision needs to be made at some point one way or the other. I can’t come back and decide a year from now it’s not what I wanted. I can’t do that to the kids, you, or myself.” H: “I know, it’s a lot to think about and you want to be sure you are making the best decision for everyone.”
Originally Posted by Starsky309
“Love is a Decision” vs. “Feelings” In my situation (and in advising others who are at the stage you are at), I try to understand an important distinction: FEELINGS -- romantic, "IN-love-with-you" feelings -- will take several months and even a couple of years to return following an affair. That was depressing for me to hear that when I was just starting to attempt reconciliation with my wife, and I in fact denied it was true, but it took a good 2-3 years for my wife's feelings of love and respect for me to return, and vice-versa. The DECISION however to do what is necessary to repair the marriage following an affair is just that -- a DECISION. It should take no more than 5 minutes to decide -- certainly not more than 24 hours. Whenever my wife would say "I don't know if my feelings for you will ever return," I would say "I understand that and I'm willing to be very patient in that regard -- it could take many, many months. But whether or not you're willing to do this short list of things that I say I need at this point, to me, isn't about feelings. It's a DECISION that you need to make, if you want to remain married to me." Maybe that's just me, but the "fog" doesn't need to be fully lifted in order for a formerly wayward spouse to decide on full no-contact and transparency and working on their marriage with their betrayed spouse.
W still doesn’t understand that love is a choice and once you fully commit, the feelings can follow. This was one of the reasons I was hoping she would stick with the Retrouvaille program as that concept is a primary point that is emphasized.
W rounded up the kids and she initiated another short exchange as she left. W: “When I come back you’re going to be checking my phone all the time because of the cheating and it will be a different kind of pressure.” —> (first time I recall her using the word cheating, of course, she doesn’t feel it was cheating because she was done with the MR a year ago.) H: “I never checked your phone or texts prior to BD.” W: “You never had a need to, there was nothing to worry about.” H: “You’re right, I had complete trust in you. It’s unhealthy for me and you if I have to check on your whereabouts or constantly be looking at your phone. Frankly, I won’t want to once I feel like I can trust you again.”
Between this last exchange about transparency and her earlier comments about being able to forgive, it seems she’s trying to set me up for massive rug sweeping. She doesn’t want to share all of the truths about what has happened. I feel she is assessing how painful it would be to come back and how difficult I will make it for her to just slide back into the MR. I’m sure this wouldn’t fly with many on the board.
I do believe she is currently NC with the OM. Will it last? Who knows, relapses seem common around here. W’s behavior has changed, less importance on the phone, more focus on the kids, and more gratitude towards me. However, she has also crawled into a shell and wants to be alone often. She has spent more time over the past month riding her horse, watching a lot of Netflix, and working on projects at her separation house. She seems to be going through OM withdrawal, grieving the end of the A, and feeling guilty for hurting him.
She asked for zero expectations and the feelings aren’t there for me right now. I will wait for her to initiate contact. When she reaches out I need to take it easy and not get my hopes up. I’ve had a problem with expecting too much too soon on up cycles. I’ve read it here many times, I press for more and it pushes her away rather than remaining patient and allowing her to come to me, i.e. wait for the cat to jump onto my lap.
This is the mantra I need to follow: NO PRESSURE, NO PURSUIT, RESPECT, ATTRACTION!!!
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
As far as your mantra the first two your definitely doing and the last two are never going to happen based on the first two.
If though you have been here a year I think it's time to go back to the extreme basics and you should print off Sandi's 37 rules and try to follow I don't know maybe 5 of them.
