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C,

Your number one problem is you still think that allowing yourself to be disrespected is the best way to save your marriage when in reality it is the reason your W will most likely D you. I don't know why you can't understand it. This IMO is what is going to haunt you. What if I would have listen to the people who have seen these situations 1,000s of times?

You can stand for your marriage and not allow disrespect. You could have told your W that she is free to move out and live her life as she pleases but she has to take her pride and joy (horse wtf??) with her. You could have calmly told her no she can't come over and swim and drink your beer whenever she wants because it doesn't work for you.

When I was 17 my gf at the time broke up with me. I cried, wrote her love notes even dropped off a cassette tape (yeah I'm old) of our song at her apartment. Guess what happened she still dumped me. Years down the road it was never about her or getting dumped my reminder was how I acted after being dumped. I didn't respect myself.

Curtis the reality is by the time you get here the odds are you will end up getting D'd. We have recently found out one of our few success stories is challenged again. We try to help you to increase your odds of preventing it and help you the best we can to move forward. Most newbies struggle with DB because its counterintuitive.

Curtis I think you are a really nice guy but I also think you are very naive to how attraction works. Google "hypergamy". You read bits and pieces of old threads, probably books and other sources but I don't think you clearly understand the circumstances and context and then have problems with implementation.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life. DB starts today.

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Please listen to us Curtis.

Start DB.

Respect!


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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Originally Posted by LH19


I don't know why you can't understand it. This IMO is what is going to haunt you. What if I would have listen to the people who have seen these situations 1,000s of times?



THIS !!!!

My biggest regret is that i never put DB into practice after OM1... I lost self respect for a couple of months, all in the effort to save the family / say a tried.. All futile..

Listen, GAL, Detach - even if she doesnt respect you, gain self respect !


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
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Curt,

Here is some truth, my wife and I reconciled. We are still together. After all the damage I did and she did we are still together today, that does not mean it will always be that way. And we both understand that. We both are more aware of our mistakes and faults and are working to improve our M and relationship.

But we would not be reconciled if I was being nice to her. It's no way. Below I will give you some of my W statements while she was in the fog and some after she came out.

My WW told me, "who are you going to meet this weekend." I was dressed to impressed and took a trip to Austin for the weekend. I asked her to shave my back before I left. After shaving my back she say's, "I'm not shaving your back ever again, and tell that bi$%^ that you are meeting up with to enjoy you". I just looked at her and rolled out. I didn't try to defend myself or give an explanation. While, I was walking out, she says, "I now know how it feels to be cheated on by you". I never give her any indications I was messing with another woman, it was her own guilt eating her up.

After we reconciled. My wife told me, "The thought of you being with OW was tearing me up. I would have to move to another city before I watch you get in a relationship with OW" (she's the cheater not me, what a crazy statement).

I stop calling, texting, emailing or holding long conversations with her. That type of communication was for someone special in my life and my WW wasn't it. She started texting, emailing, and calling me. I was short and to the point in our communication. After we reconciled she told me, she started complaining to the OM about my actions, he was getting jealous (LOL). Her OM was jealous of her husband. I never mentioned his name or gave the thought of him any life by letting his name of anything about him come out of my mouth.

One of the last events that happen was, my W wanted to spend time with me, so we watched a movie, I found out she was still talking to the OM, after she had informed me she wasn't. I woked her up right at the moment, and told her to get her sh!t and leave. I meant it, I was done. And she felt it, no more disrespect. I wasn't going to allow it. We went back and forth about her getting the hell out. And then I gave her two options, you can continue talking to him and leave, or stop talking to him and stay. The whole point of that, was to show her I was done with the BS. That happened at the end of September 2017, A week later she asked me to set up counseling sessions, she flaked on the first few sessions, ( I never forced her to go). By the end of the month she was asking to work on the M. Now, mind you, I had asked her on multiple occasions in July and August to go to counseling, I just stop asking, after I found this forum.

I found this site at the end of August 2017. It took me three weeks of being smashed upside the head by Vets for me to get that me being nice was not going to work and to just let go of what I thought was right and DB. Once I started DBing my relationship and interactions with my WW started to turn around.

My wife told me in June 2017 ILYBINILWY, I begged and pleaded until the beginning of August, no change in her heart, actions or her wants of wanting out. I started to actively DB at the beginning of September.

I posted the my time line to give you a reference. Your actions are not in line with a person that want to be respected. Your actions are in line with a person that don't mind being disrespected.

This post is getting too long. But I see a person, that's not really getting the application of what he's reading or what he's being told. You haven't implemented any of the DB fundamentals effectively yet.

You are still saying things like:

"I truly feel giving it all you can for as long as you can is justified when you choose to love your S and especially when young kids are involved." (Not one person has told you to stop loving your W, we have all told you to stop allowing the disrespect and start respecting yourself)

"However, I still believe family and kids are first in her life." (Why in the world would you believe this, her actions have shown you the exact opposite, you are hoping this is how she feels)

"It will have a lasting affect on me, her, my kids, family, and friends. Those are some of the considerations and factors I’m battling internally. Respect versus hope for what could be." (There's that hope word again, it's great to have hope, it's bad to hold on to it like your life depends on it. You are worried about your actions while eliminating her actions, her actions as causing the damage at the moment not YOURS)

"I hope they don’t all end in D with never a hint of R. Please find me one as bad as mine that successfully R." (This comment sounds so weak, it made me spit out my water) (This is all you are worried about. Like I have told you before, you are emotionally attached to one outcome and that's RECON. You have to detach from that outcome to DB effectively)

Then you write this paragraph after everything Sandi, AS, LH and everyone else has been telling you. Which leads me to believe you are doing what ever you want to do. Because, if you were listening you would of never written this:

"I’ve thought about some of my responsibilities in the MR as a H often and concluded that it is my role to protect our MR and protect our family from harm and predators. Now the question is how do I act to accomplish that objective. I was in such a daze early on after BD that I didn’t know which way was up. Also, my WW was so resentful of me that any efforts along this front would have likely sent her running even faster in the opposite direction. However, now things have calmed down and I do not believe that she still sees me as the root cause for all of her unhappiness. Still, I’m not sure how to be a protector beyond stating it with words alone. It’s not advised to confront the OM and removing myself from her life doesn’t really allow me to provide protection. I can just be a great father to my kids while they are with me, lovingly detach and leave her to figure out her own mess while she is wayward.(Yes do this)" (Protection, really!!! You are worried about the wrong things. You should be DBing, not trying to proctect you WW from predators (which in this case are men that you WW, have allowed in her life and not predators).

Keep posting. I'm sorry if my post is too blunt!


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Been a couple weeks since I posted, so I wanted to give a LONG update on my sitch. No paperwork has been filed, I'm still married, still separated, WW may or may not still be in a PA (assuming she is), horse is still on my property, and....
....surprise, surprise we're registered for Retrouvaille...why?...I don't really know...maybe because I'm long overdue for something positive to happen in my sitch.

I really appreciate the comments and advice from JoeJoe, LH, Sandi, AS, Nef, IHC, MrBrside, etc. I've re-read your most recent posts on my thread several times and I think it has finally sunk in. JoeJoe, I especially appreciate the summary of the tough love you showed your W. I'll admit that I've failed miserably at DBing. I wasn't able to bring myself to apply the techniques at the proper time. Had I been able to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I would have done things differently. I would not have tolerated disrespect from the start when I discovered the PA with OM1. My shortcomings may have cost me my MR, but I have reached my highest level of detachment so far.

At the beginning of September, I finally came to the realization that my W just doesn't love me. If she did, then she would do whatever it takes to be with the man she loves. This is why she doesn't put forth any effort into us. There are OM in her life that are more important to her. When the LBS accepts this fact, then detachment becomes much easier. It has also freed my mind to reflect deeply on her behavior and choices and how damaging they have been to me and my kids. I won't go into the details, so much of it is absolutely disgusting.

To say that getting BD is a life changing experience is an understatement. Nevertheless, I am a much stronger person as a result and will know how to handle it and know that I'll be fine if I'm ever in a similar sitch again. My confidence has returned, I am more productive at work, spend quality time with my kids when they're with me, and keep busy most evenings with coaching S8's baseball team, playing volleyball and basketball, watching D5 play soccer, going to church, spending time with friends. As great as it would be to share all of this with my family fully intact, I find that I don't nearly miss my W as much. She is off living her life and whatever that entails and I'm living mine.

Contact with WW has been minimal this month. She rarely reaches out, occasionally there is a short text exchange or brief conversation about the kids and that's about it. When the kids are exchanged, we wait in each other's garage and don't step foot in each other's house.

Something else I'll share. At the end of August, when I took S8 to the college football game, my W and D5 went to my parent's house. They spent over 4 hours there and my mom had somewhat of a relationship talk with my W without my prior consent. My mom basically told her that MR is hard and it's not always sunshine and rainbows. That there were many times when she was upset with my dad, but they worked through it, and they've just celebrated their 45th anniversary.

Here were some of the highlights that W said to my mom:
"Curtis and I are on different timelines."
"I've notice his changes, but I'm still trying to figure things out for myself."
"I'm not ready to come back yet."
"I feel bad for making him wait."
"We might attend this Retrouvaille thing, but don't change any of your plans now to watch the kids."
"We're both on a deed of the other house and it could become a rental."
"I don't like going out anymore, the crowd is too young for me." (referring to the night last November when she accepted a ride from a stranger and met OM1)
"My sister turned out normal, but I did not."
"Probably not, no one knows me better than myself." (when mom asked if she was going to talk with someone about her issues)

My gut tells me that she is still in contact with OM3, but I don't think she has gone to see him this month as he lives 2 hours away. Perhaps, the talk with my mother caused her to rethink some of her choices; although, I could be completely wrong. She seems cold and fairly distant, what does AP withdrawal look like?

A post I read from Steve85 on R2C's Quotes thread struck me.
Originally Posted by Steve85
I think it is important that you make sure they understand two things:

1. That you are willing to walk away and end things. As quoted earlier in my thread (s), "they will never find you more attractive than when you're walking away". So true.

2. That they understand that you do love them, that you'd prefer to stay with them, but not unless there are changes and work done in their end.

About a week and a half ago I sent my W the following text: "Hope you know how much I really do love you." She replied: "I know you do. Thank you." This is the first time I said ILY all year. I wanted to say that regardless of how my sitch resolves. Sending it felt like a farewell to me and helped detach more knowing that I've stated through all of the crap and BS, I still made the choice to love her. She will understand that I am willing to walk away and end things soon as well if she doesn't make a choice and I make it for her.

The last two sermons at church have been very appropriate, they were on forgiveness and boundaries, how fitting for the LBS. Kids went with me to the service and afterwards, I asked S8 how he was doing through all of this. He didn't want to say much as I don't think he likes to speak poorly about his mother. Then, he finally said he was sad and that he was angry that he doesn't get to be with both of his parents everyday. This was hard to hear. I just told him I wish things were different but we'll make the most of the time we do have together. Sometimes I hope that my kids turn out nothing like who their mother is right now as her morals destroy people.

Finally...on to Retrouvaille. WW had originally agreed to give the program a try at the beginning of August. I sent her some more information on it at the end of August where it stated that infidelity must be ended before the program is entered. She never responded to the email. I sent her a text a week ago as I needed to know if arrangements should be made for child care, here was the exchange:
H: "Ball is in your court wrt to Retrouvaille."
No response until two days later.
W: "So I asked some questions but they haven't responded yet. The retrovaille or whatever it's called."
H: "Thanks for the update. I appreciate you letting me know."
W: "We can just register and go from there?"
H: "I can do that online. I think they follow up with a phone call."
W: "Okay"
H: "Alright, I'll sign us up."

I received a call from the registration coordinator that evening. He only asked if I'm willing to commit to the entire program consisting of the weekend and 6 follow-up sessions. He also went through a list of requests including that ties with any outside relationships be severed prior to starting the program. W sent me a joking text about some of the requirements later that night. So, I guess she received the call as well and agreed to the terms. Does this mean she is ending her A, I doubt it. I really have no idea why she is going other than to say she tried, who knows, can't hurt anything at this point.

I know many of you advised against attending Retrouvaille until she recommitted to working on the MR. However, I see it as my LRT. I've read stories where WAS went in right off an affair and decided to recommit as the weekend progressed. I am hoping for that miracle, because I don't want to continue living in limbo. Trust me when I say my expectations are nearly zero. I've gone back and forth this week asking myself if I really want to go through with the weekend and if I really see a happy future with her. I certainly don't with who she has become, but if the alien monster departs, perhaps a woman will be exposed that I still love.

I do have a question for AS and any others that may have attended Retrouvaille. I know the questions circle around your own feelings. How do you respond to the questions in reference to BD? Meaning do you frame your responses on how you felt prior to BD when everything was seemingly good, post BD when your life was turned upside down, or provide both perspectives? Thanks in advance.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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C,

Boy you sure have me shaking my head after every post of yours that I read lol. I wish you well in Retrouvaille and hope that it works out for you.

You're a good guy who has a lot to offer. I hope you understand that some day.

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Curtis, wishing you the best outcome from Retrouvaille.

Trust yourself.

Respect!


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 309
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Thanks LH and Neffer.

I have read many reviews about Retrouvaille and one in particular about not having regrets said “figure out a way to go or always wonder what might have been.”

Sometimes it’s hard to say what the best possible outcome is for me. Today I’m back to feeling it’s saving my MR. I know that’s what my kids want.

I am looking forward to the weekend. I want to go in with a PMA and give it my best effort. I hope she arrives with an open mind and a willing heart.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Originally Posted by curtis7
I do have a question for AS and any others that may have attended Retrouvaille. I know the questions circle around your own feelings. How do you respond to the questions in reference to BD? Meaning do you frame your responses on how you felt prior to BD when everything was seemingly good, post BD when your life was turned upside down, or provide both perspectives? Thanks in advance.


They will guide you through the communications process once you're there. The focus isn't on what happened or why, the focus is very much on feelings. What you are feeling, what she is feeling, how to explain why you feel like you do, what questions to ask her to discover why she feels like she does. It's all about listening and validating. If you read my comments on validation you know I'm always saying that validation is not agreeing/disagreeing/ negotiating/ explaining/ arguing/ etc. It is simply acknowledging. You may completely disagree with why she is angry about something, but you can STILL acknowledge that she is angry. We all have our feelings about things and the idea is to understand that to each of us, our feelings are real and are our reality whether others agree with them or not. Retro will help you to understand this, and to have your feelings and to let others have theirs. They will give you communication tools and skills for this. They will also give you tools to unlock a lot of feelings you may have been holding in for a long time. It's a very emotional experience.

My best advice for Retro is to quit thinking about it. Go in with a fresh mind. Drop any expectations you have about it. I'll tell you right now it's very unlikely to trigger a 180 in your wife, she's not to that point yet. Go into it not expecting your M to be saved, but rather accept it as a learning experience for you. It didn't save my M but I did learn a lot. I learned 90% of what I know about listening and validating there.

Last edited by AnotherStander; 09/23/19 05:38 PM.

Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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curtis7 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
My best advice for Retro is to quit thinking about it. Go in with a fresh mind. Drop any expectations you have about it. I'll tell you right now it's very unlikely to trigger a 180 in your wife, she's not to that point yet. Go into it not expecting your M to be saved, but rather accept it as a learning experience for you. It didn't save my M but I did learn a lot. I learned 90% of what I know about listening and validating there.
Thanks AS! I appreciate the advice. Sounds like I will become a validation expert, a useful tool in a relationship. She’s definitely had her feelings through all of this and mine have mostly been in direct conflict. I will be careful not to judge as they were real for her regardless of whether I felt they were right or wrong.

I will go and trust the process. I do hope we make it through the weekend and the six post sessions. If we can make it through that over the next couple months, we’ll have passed the 1 year anniversary of BD. I feel completing the entire program would demonstrate some level of willingness and commitment. More-so than just cake eating I would think. Small steps in the right direction. At the very least I will learn new skills and grow as a person.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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