Thanks AS, it really really is. I’m definitely going out of my way not to try to control him/be perceived as controlling him in any way. That’s part of the reason I may have gone a bit over the top with the “it’s your call” stuff in my texts.
I previously wrote that D4s school requested a family pic, and we don’t have a current one. I’ve been thinking of saying to H in regards to this:
“Hey, D4’s school asked for a current family picture, and I realized we don’t have one. I was thinking we could take a new one? it would probably be nice for her to have.”
How does this come across?
Another question: now the D papers have been filed, and I’ve filed my response (so as to not default). When/if he brings up next steps, how should I respond at this point? Is calmly stating “I need more time to think about it” or “I don’t think divorce is the solution to our problems, but I’m not going to try to stop you” or things like that still the right types of responses?
I’m gonna start asking for more specific advice on interactions here. I don’t trust my judgement at the moment (im working on it!)
H came to get D4. He hadn’t seen her in several days and he cried a bit. He feels like he’s a million miles away from me. I feel like I can feel him trying not to look at me, trying not to check me out. He makes small talk about things around my home that need attention or the garden he thinks I’m doing well at maintaining. I made sure to peel away from the conversations, and to leave before H and D4 did. It feels like he’s really gone for the first time in a long time.
I just had an interesting experience with H. He brought D4 back to my place and I stayed scarce while he put her to bed. It took a long time, and when he came out of her room he was crying. He had recently told her about his own father (who was not around much when H was growing up) and apparently he had told D4 that his father was “afraid to be a father” so at bedtime D4 asked why that was the case. Apparently H told D4 it’s because “ (H’s father) is afraid of himself”. H said that when he told D4 this that she said “just tell him it’s ok, he doesn’t have to be afraid, just love your kids” and H was quite moved. He sobbed while he told me this. I just sat and listened, tried to validate. I couldn’t help tearing up. H told me that he thinks I’m doing an amazing job teaching D4 about feelings, empathy, etc. I thanked him and he kind of rushed out.
After he left I felt I should affirm the fact that he felt safe telling me about all that, because in past R talks he’s told me that he doesn’t trust me with his feelings, so this was a thing. I texted him:
Me: I appreciate you telling me about that sweet moment
H: It was f****** deep. She amazes me. Such compassion and empathy. I’m still crying. How is it possible for such a little kid to be so wise? Like I said, you’re doing an incredible job with her. Thank you
Me: Yeah, she really is amazing and wise way beyond her years. Thank you for saying that, it’s kind and it means a lot
H: Good you’re welcome. You should be proud of yourself
Me: I am
This felt like a moment to step out of DB mode a bit and “reward” the positive, emotion based interaction. Thoughts?
I don't have any specific advice, just wanted to share I had a very mixed reaction to this.
First, your H shared some deep feelings with you, and you validated and showed him a 180 on prior behavior. Fantastic!
Second, having gone through similar experiences myself (both in your shoes and your H's shoes), it is part of the process. It is heart-wrenching. It's awful. As best as you can, do not connect any of this to hopes of R.
And finally, I was upset on your behalf, although I'm not sure it's really fair to be. I feel guilty if I feel I am using my kids as an emotional crutch, and I felt a tinge of that in your H's interaction with D4. Perhaps I am not being fair.
Overall though, whatever happens in your relationship, establishing a more positive connection with your H will enable you to be better co-parents which is a huge plus.
H wanted to bring dinner over to my place after taking D4 out for a bit last night. I told him I’d see about making it back in time to eat with them, and came back part way through dinner. He was warmer and chattier then he has been in awhile and even slightly flirtatious. My only take away from this is that DBing is having an effect on him. I am focused on keeping my expectations very low (ideally non existent but I’m not a superhuman). I’ve been down this road with him before, so I know better than to be swept up thinking it means he wants back in. But I’m observing.
H wanted to bring dinner over to my place after taking D4 out for a bit last night. I told him I’d see about making it back in time to eat with them, and came back part way through dinner. He was warmer and chattier then he has been in awhile and even slightly flirtatious. My only take away from this is that DBing is having an effect on him. I am focused on keeping my expectations very low (ideally non existent but I’m not a superhuman). I’ve been down this road with him before, so I know better than to be swept up thinking it means he wants back in. But I’m observing.
Hope - this is an awesome post! All at once you observed changes in your H's behavior, you recognized that you are not completely detached (nobody really is), and you took a "curious observer" stance. Well done
My daycare asked for a family picture too. You are nicer than me! I'm just sending one with my S2 and me. I'll let H know he can send a picture too.
You mentioned you two agreed on custody if the D goes through, if you don't mind me asking, what are you planning to do? And I don't want to alarm you, but him asking to pick her up from school on his days could be him trying to get a history of more child participation to reference in custody negotiations.
I can't imagine having that much contact and having to deal with all of it. I won't allow H in my house now. He didn't want to live here, he doesn't need to be here! He offered to carry S2 to the back door the other day, and I told S2 that he should give Daddy a hug and then I would hold his hand and walk him to the door. I want H to know exactly what a divorce will be like.
Did your H start out monstering after BD? Or has he always just done the confusing, mixed signs thing?
I just got caught up on the last 2 weeks of your sitch. I am sorry that you have been experiencing so much anxiety and sadness. It really is so so hard -- in my sitch, it was harder than the death of some loved ones in my life that I had experienced. The sadness/loss combined with the betrayal of an A, and then mix in some fears about the future of unknowns (being a single parent/finances/etc) it is just all too much! I do think that it might be a new wave of emotions for you as you move into acceptance. Sometimes as change is about to occur, things can get worse before they get better. While your sitch is not new, I think your acceptance of where it stands is still new for you.
You have some great support on your thread. I agree with all of it. When I read your response to his illness and how many olive branches you extended, I had the same thoughts as AS. None of that was necessary. While it is kind of you to be thoughtful and caring while he is sick, it also shows your weakness in your need to be there for him. It does not make you the bigger person, it just lets him off the hook. I think more simple matter of fact responses would have been better. Remember, he fired you as his wife, and so you don't need to act like one. It is really hard to be a single parent and get the flu, and that is because we have to handle these things on our own when we get D. Perhaps he should know what that natural consequence feels like!
In terms of the family picture for preschool, well if it were me, I would not submit one or request anything from him. I would take a lovely pic of you and D4 together and then give it to the school. You could even email him that he should do the same and leave it at that. This is another moment that highlights a natural consequence of your sitch! It hurts and it doesn't feel nice, esp for D4 because you want to shield her, but sadly IT IS your reality right now. He needs to see, hear and feel the reality of his choices .... Because at what point does the family pic stop? In 1 year? 5 years? Right now, you are not a family, so why pretend :-(
You are starting to see him crack and show vulnerability and he even got the flu (might be related to stress). In my case my H got shingles and looked terrible! He was cracking and unraveling big time. So what did I do? I remain cordial and I continued to DB and pull back further and further. As he became more vulnerable, he also saw that he was really losing me, which he could no longer tolerate. The thing is, like I have said before, the mind reading just doesn't work. His "signs of weakness" could also be just that -- he is emotional, tired, guilty, worn out, etc -- but may not mean he is planning on returning. .... and then next month or next year, that could all change again. So you cannot change your course of actions based on where he is at (or you think he is at).
So I would suggest you just keep moving forward with a focus on you and your life without him. It is the only way because he is not really in your life with you.
Blu
Last edited by BluWave; 09/03/1901:53 AM.
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Thank you Blu! I know that everything you are saying is true. I can see myself trying to nice him back lately, against all advice here, and I got caught up in the superficial positive response. He’s been warm, friendly, wanting to be around my house a lot and even mildly flirtatious lately. I’ve been here with H before. And last night H brought up wanting to work out more details moving toward D, and I was (somehow?!??) surprised. I did manage to stay calm and do some validating, but I let the talk go on for way to long. He started in all over again saying he’s felt like we’ve been good friends and coparenting lately, that’s all it is, he doesn’t want to lead me on, he’s happy now, etc. It was really hard to hear,( and honestly hard to believe that he sees the current dynamic as just good coparenting ) because I’ve been backtracking I to denial and hope and mind reading and all things I shouldn’t be doing. I told him I won’t try to stop the D, but that I don’t think it’s necessarily the best decision for our family. Oddly, he said “but you filed those papers in response to mine”, referring to my response to his D filing. I said “I had to, I’m not trying to stop what you’re doing, so I did what I needed to do” It was an odd thing for him to say. I’ve probably plan B’d myself all over again. At least I didn’t get emotional or upset. I’m feeling sad and tired and sick to my stomach. Plan moving forward: continue to be cordial, continue to DB but pull way back.
Ugh. Feeling major regret over the way I handled the D talk last night. That was an opportunity to show that I will be fine regardless and to not engage in R talk and I failed. I’m glad and proud that I stayed calm and didn’t get angry or tearful or emotional at all, but I did say too much and let him know I still have hope for our M. I am SO bad at sticking to DB in those moments when it counts the most. He even said he doesn’t miss me. A very unkind thing to say. And very telling. I do feel good about my progress in controlling my emotions. But I’ve probably done a lot of damage to my DB efforts and I don’t feel good about that.
