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BarbH #2864413 09/06/19 06:02 PM
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Okay, so I talk to him yesterday, it's friendly and congenial-he's at the pub with BIL watching football. And may come up will let me know. I'm going to bed-text him "do I leave the light on " No, he'll be up in the morning. "Okey dokey, good night". Well, it's morning,11 am, no word. He's very short when texting, but seems quite friendly and talkative, even jokey (as I am) on the phone. But he doesn't contact me, it's always me having to contact him about finances, or the house.

I'm worried about when I come back from Halifax. His last words were "we'll talk when you get back". This is after the wrenching afternoon where he confessed his affair of 15 years ago, then hugged me hard and said he was sorry. I was over the moon at the time, but agreed to we'll talk after I get back.

He's also been talking to his sister (as she talks to me) about his concerns regarding retirement (toxic workplace), and whether or not I will "throw the affair" in his face down the road. (I'm encouraged about the "down the road" bit). He can retire, once the refinance is done, and I will never throw it in his face, and told her to tell him so. It feels like he's feeling me out by using her as an intermediary.

On reflection, I'm worried this talk will be a "this changes nothing" talk, in which case, what's the point of having it? Or even worse, "I confessed, I'm sorry, but I'm totally done". I also am worried that he was to some extent pressured by his sister setting up to talk to me about the affair, although I think by telling her two days earlier he was maybe warming up to telling me. I am rolling around in my mind either telling him (if I see him) or texting him....something about the talk.

Do I? When I'm on my way back? Something like this:

"H. I know we said we'd talk when we got back. I just want you to know that I am aware you asked for 6 months of time and space-I am very willing to give you what you need. While I am happy to talk to you whenever you want, about whatever you want, whether it's us, retirement, the affair, or even the dog's teeth! I do not want you to feel pressured into talking about our conversation before I left. What I said at that time still stands, and I am trying hard to honour your desire to have space you need at this time."

Or do I just ignore it and see if he brings it up?

What says the wisdom of the board? I'm also worried his sister will pressure him into talking to me about it again.


Me: 57 H:60
Married: 25 yrs
DB #1 June 4/19
"I love you forever" June 14/19
DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
BarbH #2864430 09/06/19 07:05 PM
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Barb,

Do not send that message to him. Again, you are trying to rush the process and you can't. Leave well enough alone and allow him to come to you. You do realize that you sound like you are putting pressure on him as well as pursuing him? If you are trying hard to honor his desire to have space and time....then give it to him. Texting, email or phoning him about that affair situation, retirement, etc., is not listening to him and what he wants or needs right now.

It is very normal for them to say that they are going to do something or come by and/or keep an appointment and then don't do it. Something else may have caught his attention or he went home to sleep. Whatever it is, it's just the norm for them and that's why you need to keep your expectations at zero at all times. The man you knew and loved is not the man you are dealing w/right now. You are dealing w/the mirror image of him, i.e., the opposite of the pre-crisis man.

I wouldn't have my SIL passing on messages to him. In fact, I wouldn't share one thing w/her. What is going is between you and your h. The more your SIL tries to get things fixed between you, the longer it is going to take. I know she means well, but she's not helping him or you at the moment. She's actually putting undue pressure on your h and he's not getting the time and space from her either. You may want to meet up w/your SIL and ask her to step back a little for now. She doesn't understand MLC or walkaways.

I wouldn't worry too much about what he said about "well talk when you get back". That may have been said at the spur of the moment and by the time you return, he may have forgotten about it. If he wanted to talk to you about something, he would have done it by now. So, file that comment away and focus on your trip.

Give him the space and time that he's asked for. If he texts you, then give it a couple of hours and then reply back. You do not want to sound like you are sitting on your phone waiting for him to contact you. I know you are anxious to know what is going through his mind, but you won't know until he's ready to tell you and that may not be for quite some time. If you and your SIL put pressure on him, he very well may say that he's had enough and walk away completely. I don't think that is what you want at this time.

Keep the focus on you and your trip. Dig deeper for patience and try to lower your expectations.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Well said Job. I agree 100% with your advice on everything.

Barb, give him space. Listen to what Job said. Read it over & over.

I get what you're going through, in a sense. (But a lot I don't know, my H has been away at sea/work since April)

I want nothing more than for things to be okay with my M, I want to fix everything, figure things out, get him to talk, but it has to be when he's ready. He's on his own journey, and who knows what's going on in his head. YES it makes us crazy to not know what's going on. Why can't they figure things out quicker? Who knows. They don't even know what's going on.

Consider yourself lucky, that you know where your husband is. Consider yourself lucky that he's with family. Consider yourself lucky that he still communicates with you. You are going on a vacation! Now is the perfect time for you to ease off on the reins, and let him come to you. DON'T bring anything up to him about wanting to talk. Let him bring it up.

Leave the fire alone. Don't poke at it. Don't ask SIL about it; that's poking too. Leave the fire to the fire starter. It's up to him to put it out. He started it. Let him tend to it.

Breathe, Breathe, Breathe. Don't hold your breath. Continuously breathe. In with the good, out with the bad.

I enjoy reading your posts. I'm routing for you. Be strong!


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
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Hi Canbird and Job:

Thanks again. You know how people say "let it out on the board" I'm about to do that again. So after his big cryfest/confession of a week ago-he's up today. chitchat, chitchat....refers to "next year's garden" and he "isn't sure now about the house" But still regressed again and rather icy. On the plus side-he is getting me firewood "we need to get you firewood for the winter"....and "we should fix the Grand Vitara because you'll need four wheel drive this winter". But standoffish like crazy.

Yes, I have taken comfort in the fact he's at his sisters and she verifies everything he says he's doing. But I think I'm at the point, as you have all pointed out, where I will ask her to just be a friend-if he has anything to say he can either say it to me or find a counsellor or talk to her-she isn't the middleman.

I had a great visit with my therapist-lots of talk around setting boundaries for my well-being. We've come up with 4.All of which i do not need his agreement for, I can simply walk away.

Again, no relationship talk, just business. She reinforced for me that his confusion isn't my problem to fix. I don't know how many people have to say this for me to get it!

I'm working on my patience, and starting Tai-chi for my anxiety.

Canbird-thanks for rooting for me! I'm pulling for you too! I'm pulling actually for everyone to come to their personal happiness, in whatever form it takes.


Me: 57 H:60
Married: 25 yrs
DB #1 June 4/19
"I love you forever" June 14/19
DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 137
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So annoyed. I had to take my tire in for repair, it picked up a nail. His spare needed fixing so I took it too. Just texted "I have your tire back". He read it. How hard is it to say Thanks. Good lord, even basic manners take a beating]


Me: 57 H:60
Married: 25 yrs
DB #1 June 4/19
"I love you forever" June 14/19
DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 657
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Barb - the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post was "you took his tire in hoping he would appreciate you". I wonder if this is true? Remember. Have no expectations. It will only drive you crazy.

(((Barb)))

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
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No Grace, I didn't have an expectation-other than that of essential manners. He was here when I left and asked me to take it in for him. I did as I was going there anyway. Picked them both up and brought them home. Someone does something for you, particularly when you've asked, you say thanks. That's it.

Honestly guys, the more I think about this the angrier and sadder I get. I am a good person, even if I say so myself-I'm smart, good job, hardworking, outdoorsy, friendly, and not at all bad looking for a 58 yr old! (and I'm a great cook).

I can forgive the affair itself. I don't think I can forgive the 15 years of lies. They weren't even 15 years of treating me like a princess to make up for the fact that he got away with an affair-the last few years were more I was the chief cook/bottlewasher/banker/wager earner/toy buyer., while recovering from cancer and dealing with my mother with dementia. No flowers, no acknowledgement. Then he had the almost affair. And now he's "confused". I think he is trying to find a way back. Well, he got himself into this. Why do I want to stay with a cheat and a liar?

I don't care that he's talking about maybe not selling the house next year, or getting me firewood, or fixing the 4x4 for me to use over the winter. I can buy my own 4x4, I can arrange my own firewood. If he's making future plans that he thinks includes me-well....no.

I am no longer confused. I think I've achieved detachment. Why on earth am I having angst over someone who can't be bothered. I mourn for what we might have had, but lost. And what we could have, but won't. Yes, it will be hard, but I will be fine.

Our house refi is signed on the 27th. All consumer debt paid at that point. I can swing all the payments if he backs out, and I can prep the house and property for sale. He can leave. I will be sure to get him to sign the separation agreement and then we will be having a very difficult conversation.

I really no longer care that he's having a crisis, or if he's just behaving like a jerk. Honestly, he's been a jerk for much of the last 15 years. He can either man up-admit he wants to come back, abjectly apologize-and start individual counselling, or not, it's up to him. He's 60, it's time to grow up. I will no longer be playing along. I will be drawing my line in the sand. I will be filing for divorce at the 1 year mark when I can file uncontested, unless things dramatically change. He really doesn't deserve me.

thank you all for your support. Things are becoming much, much clearer. Why am I standing for this? Part of me will always love him, but the other part of me, loves me more.


Me: 57 H:60
Married: 25 yrs
DB #1 June 4/19
"I love you forever" June 14/19
DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
Joined: Apr 2007
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Barb

It is very difficult

I know MY M was not good..for many years b4 MLC,
but I think the hardest thing was giving up the cinderella fantasy of being M and raising my kids with their dad

and believing we would R and create something better

I still loved my XH and I didn't want to be D

It will take you a while to grieve this loss and We go through many stages as we process this and begin to let go
and this takes a while--
while you are waiting to know his next move, you are healing and still creating a new life on your own
one day the pieces come together

I think you may be disappointed after his confession, maybe you expected something different or more from him and Im sorry for your pain-
The best you can do is to continue to begin to create a good life for you, hobbies, friends, church, books, volunteering ect..yoga, meditation vacations as you are already doing.... and with your free time you can keep a watch on your H actions

Many of these spouses are not well and without therapy and professional help they may not recover...for some time
This is a good place to vent as you repair the loss of this while your H decides and if you want to wait

The thing is we have no where to go anyway, so it makes good sense to grieve it, while we move forward


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
BarbH #2864540 09/07/19 11:41 PM
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Thank you peacetoday, I'm glad you understand. I simply cannot take any more of the push and pull. Even though when he came up he was pleasant, and talked "as if" we had a future (garden, rethinking selling house in spring etc). After our last hug a week ago, when I was leaving i said "are we on hugging terms or not?" The answer was "No, not right now". I think these are check-ins. He says he "has things to do" but comes up, picks up nothing, does nothing. And yesterday I left before him, and I noticed (via tracker) he left about an hour later.

I am seriously already exhausted by this, particularly at the thought that possibly his MLC was 15 years ago, and we've essentially been playing it out ever since. As everyone has so thoughtfully pointed out-if it's not resolved or worked through when it happens, it reappears later-and I think here we are.

So yes, while I am waiting-I am regaining my perspective on myself and my life. Off to Halifax Monday (if hurricane Dorian co-operates!) for the week, H will be staying here and has made "promises" about roughing in plumbing, cleaning shop and horse pens (funny, these were the issues he said he was tired of doing). I will see, I am not holding my breath.

He's coming up tomorrow prior to me leaving in the wee hours of Monday. I plan on setting three boundaries with him:

1. H, when you say you will do something, like telling me you will text before coming up here, or that you will transfer me bill money on Friday, and you don't follow through, it makes me think that you are not reliable. I would appreciate you following through on your statements, or not making them at all. ( I know I can't enforce this one, other then letting him know how I feel. And as my therapist and I both think he's thinking about coming back, this may have some impact, however I will continue to believe nothing).


2. Regarding the bills-I text you every Wednesday before your payday, and I pay the bills on Friday. Your commitment was to transfer me the payment on payday Friday. I will no longer be reminding you to transfer me the funds. As we agreed, I will continue to send you the bills on Wednesday, so you have time to set up the transfer on your payday. You can set up a post dated transfer on the bank's website. If you do not transfer me the money, I am keeping an account and this will be settled either with the refinance or when the house is sold.

3.When I do communicate with you by text or email, or when I do something for you like having your tire fixed and picking it up (at your request) I would appreciate the simple good manners of acknowledging and/or thanking. (Again, I can't enforce this, but my volume and communication will be dropping significantly-full on business mode now, no more favours, no more conversation).

I need to regain control of my life. I don't care if he feels pressure or not. This is about me, not him. There are more boundaries to come.

He stills says "we will talk when you are back", well, yes, yes we will.

"H., I appreciate you still say you are confused. This is actually confusing me as well. I appreciate that this has been difficult for you, and although I had offered to help, this is not my work to do. I appreciate your honesty regarding your infidelity, and as someone who cares about you, you need to think about talking to someone to help you sort out your confusion".
(This will be a non-negiotiable at some point if he actually wants to reconcile, and I think he knows it as his sister said the other day 'he won't do counselling". Well, that's on him too).

How's my GAL you ask? Dinner and music jam at friend's tonight. Halifax for a week on Monday, Signed up to start Tai chi on the 17th (and have a couple of friends coming with me!) Diligently reading my book for book club. Oh and I went for lunch with sister-some guy at the next table kept catching my eye and smiling...that was nice!

Onwards.


Me: 57 H:60
Married: 25 yrs
DB #1 June 4/19
"I love you forever" June 14/19
DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
BarbH #2864547 09/08/19 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
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Barb,

I do understand your frustration and reclaiming your life. Barb, we are all fixers and believe in following through on what we say that we will do. Patience becomes a challenge for us because we can see what needs to be done and yes, they need to see someone about their issues. We can make rational decisions, but they generally can't because they are operating on emotion. You cannot rationalize w/someone who isn't rational. Emotionally charged individuals will not "hear" you. They tend to react rather than think things through.

MLC is not easy to deal w/especially if this is a flare up from the first go round. We all go through life transitions, i.e., early teens, 20, 30, etc., and if the transitions are not completed, then the "major" mlc takes place. It could very well be that your h was experiencing a life transition 15 years ago and he didn't complete it and now the "major" mlc is taking place.

When communicating w/him, you want to keep your conversations and lists short and sweet. Too much info will go right over his head. He won't be able to retain much of it because of the issues going on in his brain. He may be suffering from brain fog, i.e., exhibiting confusion, difficulty concentrating and retaining info, loss of interest, loses time and can't keep his appointments, etc. All symptoms of depression. I'm not making excuses for him because I've been down this road many years ago and can tell you that you need to keep things short and to the point otherwise it will go in one ear and out the other and he will only focus on a few words and the rest he will tune out.

Just a suggestion, try to phrase your "boundaries" in a way that you don't sound like his mother. You do not want to sound like you are telling him how he should behave. You do not want him to look at you as his mother, i.e., nagging him about things. They become very resentful of authority figures and may view your "boundaries" as trying to control him by telling him how he should behave, etc.

We advise posters to keep their expectations at zero because the person you knew and loved is gone for a while. They become the exact opposite of that pre-crisis person. They act out and like teenagers and depression takes over and they can only think of themselves. They become self centered and selfish. Many sit around staring at the walls in the evenings and time slows way down for them and they don't realize how much time has passed. They say that they will do things and then don't, they forget appointments and errands. Many forget to pay their bills. Yes, it's frustrating and there is nothing we can do about it because it is their journey and they have to be the ones to decide to get help. Many do not think that there is anything wrong w/them.

Again, I am not making excuses for his behavior, however, expectations need to remain as close to zero as possible because if he doesn't live up to what you "expect" of him, you will become angry, resentful and frustrated. His journey is his own to take. It takes the patient of a saint when dealing w/someone in mlc.

Your journey is to rediscover you, the person you were before you married. This is your time to do the things that you want to do and who knows...you may realize that you lost a part of yourself in the marriage and now can reclaim that part and enjoy the new you.

Please try to enjoy your trip and leave the mlc at home as much as possible. I know it's going to be difficult to do so, but you need this break to help you recharge your battery.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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