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A Message from Michele
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Separated and facing divorce #2861188
08/13/19 11:04 AM
08/13/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
F
firemann Offline OP
Member
firemann  Offline OP
Member
F
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
Married 16 years and together for a total of 20. We have a D15 and S12, both of which are amazing students and very active out of school.

I work 2 jobs and our combined family schedule put a huge strain on the marriage. I failed to make her a priority in life, took her for granted and, at times would use alcohol to self-medicate a social anxiety condition exacerbated by my line of work. In addition, I havenít be transparent with some family issues from my childhood that were traumatizing to me. Iíve been an excellent provider financially but not so much emotionally.

On her side, she comes from a family where all the women have multiple divorces. She has historically swept our marital issues and concerns under the carpet, wanting to keep the peace rather than have a confrontation. Lately, she has shown a lot of stonewalling too. She lost both her parents over the last three years and considers the current time to be ripe for discovering herself and her independence, not wanting to be dependent on anyone.

My wife dropped the bomb this January saying ILYBINILWY and stated she no longer wanted to be married to me. She moved to our guest room. I purchased the DR books along w a few others. I definitely began over persuing her and she. In turn, began distancing more

In March, discovered EA including 6 months of telephone conversations totaling 6,000 minutes. I also found an explicit text to an old boyfriend describing a magical night spent with a stranger in December. When I confronted her on it, she claimed the ex boyfriend wrote porn stories and liked material/innuendos on cheating spouses (my lawyer loved that justification).

She began a period of ambivalence with our marriage, unsure if she wanted to remain married
but always ďleaning outĒ.

In June, she moved out of the house and moved in with a single female neighbor on our street. The kids alternate houses weekly. We agreed not to date others until either one of us opted to divorce.

Since sheís moved out, Iíve detached and GAL. I workout almost daily and have resumed going to church. We both been in IC since January (different providers) Our communication has deteriorated to maybe a text a week, if that. Iíve done a lot of work on my side to cleanup my act, and I canít say the same for her. She took on some additional part one work to paid her income but ha yet to do any work on the relationship.

Two weeks ago, I had her over to empathically listen to her issues with the marriage. I wanted to know how, in her opinion, we got to this point and promised to to counter or argue with her. I wanted to clearly know my contributions to the demise of the relationship. I filled out 4 pages of notes and it ended with her saying she wants a divorce.

I started online dating shortly thereafter and met a few people, nothing of significance, though the ego boost was great.

Figuring the D word was issued with a tainted mind two weeks back, I told her Iíd love to go to couple therapy and somehow work to fix things. I asked her again if she really wanted to divorce and she said 100% without a doubt. Those words crushed me. She also stated she didnít realize Iíd get in to online dating so soon and that online dating doesnít line up with the desire to reconcile. I replied she has said one positive thing about our marriage in a year and that she agreed we could date others once the desire to divorce was declared.

Understanding jumping into online dating wasnít smartest move, Iíve decided to instrument the LRT. Iíve also taken down my online dating profiles. My focus now is on myself and my kids.

Our communication is now close to nothing. The only things she spends time on are her part time jobs and the kids. In my heart, I wish their was some way to reconcile, but I don't know where to begin...

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861190
08/13/19 11:46 AM
08/13/19 11:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12,983
NY
Cadet Offline

Member
Cadet  Offline

Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12,983
NY
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-65, D32,S31
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861195
08/13/19 12:35 PM
08/13/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,703
S
Steve85 Offline
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Steve85  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,703
Welcome fireman, sorry you are here but you will find support and advice here. Your story is pretty typical, though it has advanced quite far already. I agree that you are to the point of LRT, no question. And you need to continue to just wait until she comes to you. I do have some advice based on your OP.

1) Stop drinking. Just cut alcohol completely out of your life. I am a former alcoholic and I can tell you that most of the problems that occurred in my life prior to stop drinking were almost completely caused by alcohol. You admit it played a role in your marriage's demise. So just make a pact with yourself to never drink again. Your life will be so much better for it. You may not consider yourself an alcoholic, but characterizing your drinking as "self medicating" sure sounds pretty close to alcoholism.

2) Get into IC. "a social anxiety condition exacerbated by my line of work. In addition, I havenít be transparent with some family issues from my childhood that were traumatizing to me. " Social anxieties and traumatizing childhood issues are things you need to work through, understand and move on from. I do not see you doing that on your own! So couple IC with vowing never to drink again.

3)Become the best dad you can be! Make D15 and S12 your priorities in life. I know you'd love to be able to make your W a priority, but that is not an option right now. But you can make your kids your priority. I am a firm believer in our priorities in being in this order: God, family and country. So next to your relationship with God, make your relationship with your kids most important.

4) Speaking of God, family and country, I see you have gone back to church. Double down on that! Get involved beyond just Sunday worship. Make a commitment to attend every service they offer (Sunday evening, mid-week Bible study, etc) and then take your kids! Show your kids how important spirituality.

5) Keep on self-improving. Beyond just stopping drinking, IC and being a great dad, always be improving! Keep working out. Stay busy! I know 2 jobs probably takes a lot of your time, but you shouldn't be just sitting around every moment you have free time. I find there is plenty of time to sit around right before bed. Read self-improvement books. If you have a passion, engage in that passion and excel in it!

6) Don't start dating until you've nailed 1-5!

fireman, you can do this. You've know what I've found? That when I put my priorities in the right place, my life becomes so much smoother. You admit to getting things out of whack, and upside down. Put your life right side up, and you might be surprised at what occurs!


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861206
08/13/19 01:14 PM
08/13/19 01:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 777
UK
Family Man Offline
Member
Family Man  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 777
UK
Firemann, I posted this in reply to someone else in your position. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2861038#Post2861038
Your story validates what I said. It's a bit late for you but not necessarily too late. I cut the booze 6 weeks ago and I cannot believe the difference in my clarity of thought and willingness to act. It's changed me in ways I would never have believed. Best of luck.


Now divorced, boys grown up. Now in new failed relationship( never again, please )
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861212
08/13/19 01:57 PM
08/13/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
F
firemann Offline OP
Member
firemann  Offline OP
Member
F
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
Thanks Steve85 and Family Man. I have been in IC since Feb as has she. I was put on a mild anti-anxiety medication. I've made a lot of progress with my anxiety and my childhood issue. I've been going to a men's accountability group that meets once a week too, which has been somewhat helpful.

I will cut off alcohol as advised. I've definitely slowed down a lot but will try cutting it off completely.

The wife and I spoke this moring about a check she needed for one of the kids. Ended with a little R talk - she said she wasn't sure if the relationship could be fixed at this point. She then asked me what I wanted, because online dating and reconciliation don't line up in her mind. Told her I want her to be happy, but I will do whatever it takes to reconcile. Ended with a request to see her again for coffee sometime. She said she'd consider it but she felt like she was on the spot.

She is going away this weekend and I am praying it's not with her EA guy. Just trying to put it out of my mind and wish her a good time. I asked her once where she's going and i got the 'why, why are you asking? i dont ask you where you go all the time....' response.

Praying I have time with her to turn this thing around.

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861215
08/13/19 02:32 PM
08/13/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,703
S
Steve85 Offline
Member
Steve85  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,703
firemann, how is this LRT?


M(50), W(51),D(15)
M-20, T-22 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861220
08/13/19 02:59 PM
08/13/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
F
firemann Offline OP
Member
firemann  Offline OP
Member
F
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
I know R talk isn't LRT. Am going to re-read the LRT rules

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861246
08/13/19 06:41 PM
08/13/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,173
A
AnotherStander Offline
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AnotherStander  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,173
Hey FM, welcome to the forums! First I just want to say that while things seem pretty bleak, do hang onto hope because there is always a chance of recon. Eventually most LBS's do get the opportunity, it's just not on the timeline they wish and hope for. It will take your W a long, long time to get past whatever she is struggling with and consider recon. So please be patient.

Originally Posted by firemann
I work 2 jobs and our combined family schedule put a huge strain on the marriage. I failed to make her a priority in life, took her for granted and, at times would use alcohol to self-medicate a social anxiety condition exacerbated by my line of work. In addition, I havenít be transparent with some family issues from my childhood that were traumatizing to me. Iíve been an excellent provider financially but not so much emotionally.


It happens. Men place a high priority on being the bread-winner and providing for their family, women place a high priority on being loved and nurtured. Both spouses end up suffering because of it but the man usually thinks it's OK and they can grin and bear it. The woman though, eventually she wants to leave and seek out what she's been missing.

Quote
She began a period of ambivalence with our marriage, unsure if she wanted to remain married
but always ďleaning outĒ.


Not sure if you've heard this saying before, but the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Once a person gets to that point the marriage as it exists is dead.

Quote
Since sheís moved out, Iíve detached and GAL. I workout almost daily and have resumed going to church. We both been in IC since January (different providers) Our communication has deteriorated to maybe a text a week, if that.


That's fine, it's what she wants right now- time and space.

Quote
Iíve done a lot of work on my side to cleanup my act, and I canít say the same for her. She took on some additional part one work to paid her income but ha yet to do any work on the relationship.


Work on YOU, not the relationship. And don't expect her to lift a finger for months if not a year or more.

Quote
I filled out 4 pages of notes and it ended with her saying she wants a divorce.


That's how she feels right now, at this moment in time. She will feel that way for a while, so don't ask anymore. She is absolutely convinced it's over. 6 months or a year from now she will probably think differently.

Quote
Figuring the D word was issued with a tainted mind two weeks back, I told her Iíd love to go to couple therapy and somehow work to fix things. I asked her again if she really wanted to divorce and she said 100% without a doubt. Those words crushed me.


Again, it's how she feels today. And probably tomorrow and next week and month. Down the road is what you are interested in, and that has yet to be determined.

Quote
In my heart, I wish their was some way to reconcile, but I don't know where to begin...


You begin by understanding the timeline is VERY long. Then you give her time and space while working on yourself. No pursuit. No R talks. No worrying about the absolutes she'll speak in now. Be patient.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861249
08/13/19 07:12 PM
08/13/19 07:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
F
firemann Offline OP
Member
firemann  Offline OP
Member
F
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
North Carolina
I'll wait, AnotherStander. Patience isn't my strong suit,but I will try my best. Thanks for the feedback. I very much appreciate the words.

Re: Separated and facing divorce [Re: firemann] #2861250
08/13/19 07:22 PM
08/13/19 07:22 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,910
Missouruh
O
ovrrnbw Offline
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ovrrnbw  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,910
Missouruh
Fireman,

you guys both say one thing and do another. Start doing more and talking less, and if you say you're going to do something make darn sure that you do it. I read how your W is sure she wants a divorce several times. But the thing is, you don't have to say a word to let someone know you want a divorce - it's all about action. Which brings us to a popular saying here and in other areas: "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see".

You shouldn't worry that communication is minimal right now. You should worry about things you can control.

LRT is simple:
1. Stop pursuing
2. GAL
3. Wait and see.

Michele writes a ton about LRT, basically saying what not to do as everyone tries to convince themselves that just one more act of pursuit will change their WAS's mind. For example,

Originally Posted by firemann
Told her I want her to be happy, but I will do whatever it takes to reconcile. Ended with a request to see her again for coffee sometime.


Now she knows you want to patch things up, don't tell her again until she has told you, and more importantly SHOWN you, that she will do whatever it takes to make things work. This may never happen. Prepare for that.

Originally Posted by firemann
I asked her again if she really wanted to divorce and she said 100% without a doubt.
You probably don't see it yet, but this creates so much pressure on her. 99% of the time they are going to say what she said. Now that you know this, you can learn from it. Michele states to do what works. If you don't know what works, then don't do what doesn't work. So, for now at least, doing nothing will often be better than anything else. If you find yourself emotionally strained, give her a response at a different time by saying "Let me think about that".

Now read those links, other situations here, and ask questions. Good luck.


H 33
W 28
BD 3/12/18

Married 3 years
Together 7 years

Working on the R and on me - Spring 19
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