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Originally Posted by Family Man
I've been advised that "getting into her head" and understanding her are very attractive in a partner - hence the poem. Do you have a view on that?


Well despite everything she is probably still very confused even though she doesn't want you to know that. It's like a storm is raging inside her head, so trying to get in there and figure things out is kind of an exercise in futility (although we all start out trying to do it).

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I think it was a direct hit at getting her to question her decision without judging her.


LBS's try all kind of tricks to get the WAS to "see the light" or "snap out of it". The thing is, she is on a journey and you can't speed her up along it. But you CAN slow her down! Just about anything you try to "open her eyes" is just going to slow her down. Time and space is the best you can do right now.

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The laundry list is laughed at by everyone I've talked to about it. Very thin and inaccurate at times - I thought she may be trying( and failing ) to convince herself.


Yes that's usually the case. They are trying to justify leaving the relationship in whatever way they can. And they DO absolutely believe their list is true. With time she'll start remembering there were good and even great things about the relationship, but right now she's focusing on the bad.

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She has made other moves that seem positive precursors to getting back but they may be just contingency plans to keep me as plan B( which I hadn't considered before you mentioned it ). Is Plan B discussed anywhere on the site?


We talk about it a lot on the forums but I don't remember if it's in DR or not. There's also the distance/ pursuit dynamic which Dobson talks about a lot in his book Love Must Be Tough (a good companion read to DR). You pursue, she distances. The harder you pursue the faster she runs away. Remove all pressure and she will quit running and even take a step towards you. You misinterpret and stat pursuing again and she runs away. Sometimes people here refer to it as like feeding a squirrel, you have to hold perfectly still and the squirrel will approach but if you make any movement at all it runs and the process starts all over again.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Thanks AS, By "understanding her" I don't mean her current confusion, I mean when we are in a normal relationship. I think I'm lucky that she hasn't been unpleasant and seems to enjoy my company - hence the alarm bells when you mentioned plan B. I've told her several times that I understand parts of her psyche better than she does and she's never denied it.

I tried to do everything I could to assure her of my sincerity before going dark - some of it was really enjoyable and therapeutic in developing me. Now I see the benefit in no contact - she has a lot to think about.

Did you read the previous post about the golf weekend? I'd really like your views on that.


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SteveLW #2861291 08/14/19 06:48 AM
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Steve, you planted a seed on my mind that has just sprouted. I come from a family of divorcees and so I'm cynical about marriage, possibly anti-marriage. But the idea of us celebrating a committed reunion with some sort of formal acknowledgement is strangely attractive. Is there a wedding alternative or have I had a eureka moment?


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Originally Posted by Family Man
I think I'm lucky that she hasn't been unpleasant and seems to enjoy my company - hence the alarm bells when you mentioned plan B.


My XW started out treating me mean like a lot of WAS's do. But early on she actually approached me about it, said she was doing it because she thought it would help me(!!!!) detach and want to divorce, but she could see it was hurting me instead so she was going to stop doing it. And she did, she was pretty kind and polite after that throughout the rest of our M and through S and (mostly) through D. So nice in fact that a few times I thought things must be turning around and I temp checked her. Every time I did I got promptly slapped back down to reality, she never stopped being full-steam-ahead on S and D. So it's great that she's enjoying your company, that is certainly better than the alternative of your WAS being a jerk as is often the case around here. But don't let that confuse you, it doesn't mean her position is softening, at least not right now.

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Did you read the previous post about the golf weekend? I'd really like your views on that.


I did but I didn't fully understand it, so I'll go back and look at it again:

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Before I saw the email she contacted OM( who is not a member of our club ) and he said he would not attend if it meant bumping a member.( so he wouldn't go ). As she was telling me this it dawned on both of us that she couldn't share with OM and a huge grin formed on her face when she realised option 1 would work. That is what she has now booked. What is she playing at? It seems an extraordinary length to go to to keep me as plan B. There was no pleading with him to come( how would that make him feel ).


So OM recused himself, and the two of you are going to share a room and a bed?

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How should I play it on the day( not the golf )?


I would be inclined to treat her like a "friendly neighbor", be kind and polite but no relationship talks at all. If she initiates an R talk then just listen and validate. If you're asking about being intimate, I would let her take the lead on that. Some WAS's want to keep having sex and others don't. Even if she does want to I wouldn't read anything to it.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Thanks AS, More food for thought. Of course for us the S has happened and there is no D. So the effect of S is that we no longer sleep together and we are no longer seen as an item. OM is carrying the baggage of a 48 year marriage and he has told her that he would be back with his wife like a shot if he could. His outstanding qualities, as described in her laundry list include
  • carrying the shopping
  • saying "after you"
  • being tidy in his dressing up
  • he wants her to help him choose his new sofas

To be fair he's a nice guy who has gone through the mill with his marriage but I don't see this competing with the new me she saw before she left. Of course the old me lacked a lot. She made the decision to leave before my transformation and she doesn't change her mind easily. Does this context affect your view at all?

Last edited by Family Man; 08/14/19 12:05 PM.

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Originally Posted by Family Man
Does this context affect your view at all?


Are you asking if I think you are the better option and she will therefore choose you? If that's what you're asking then no, WAS's nearly always "affair down". No one is really sure why, but I suspect it's because if they look downward on the "desirability scale" then they will find an OM who will do just about anything for them because they feel they don't "deserve" them. Often what they lacked in the R was nurturing, and a lesser OM will fall all over himself to give her what she's been lacking.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Thanks AS. Yes that was my question. And your reply is not what I wanted to hear, but, as always, a good point. It sounds like WASs are typically lacking in confidence. She has stated that if it were not for OM we would be working on the R. I'm sure I made her happy before she left so my best hope is that the A fizzles out. The lack of discussion over OM's attendance and the broad smile makes me wonder whether she is simply playing a game with me( I try to be optimistic ). Does anyone think that this is a time for a grand gesture - e.g. a honeymoon with or without a marriage. I wonder whether OM would even object under the circumstances since it's such a new relationship and I would make her very happy. Grand gestures don't seem to be recommended here but surely there must be times when it counts. Thoughts anybody?


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F,

So your gf is cheating on you with an OM who is so wonderful that he says "after you" and needs help picking out sofas WTF???? and you want to propose? Do you think that will make you look strong or weak?

You have been watching too many romcoms my friend.

LH19 #2861339 08/14/19 03:24 PM
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Interesting view LH. Actually she is not cheating on me - she has dumped me. And I can understand why given my past behaviour. It is since then that I have woken up to what I want and have made changes that would have avoided the issue. Now I want her back. She is in no doubt about my strength and nor am I and we are the only 2 people who matter in that regard. If I had followed Will Smith's advice "Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard" she'd still be with me.
My question is when is a grand gesture a good idea? I haven't seen them advocated anywhere on the site. And what other sort of gesture might be appropriate?

If anything she is cheating on OM and I haven't seen a romcom in years.


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F,

My point is in more valid when you consider she dumped you. Proposing to someone who dumped you is more likely to be seen as pathetic that's why you don't see it around here.

The best gesture you can make is to give her the time and space to figure her $hit out. She has to choose to want to be with you for it to work out long term. Have you ever heard the term "rejection breeds obsession"?

How long have you made these supposed changes? It takes a really long time to make changes that last.

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