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Re: Anxious, Emotional Neglect, and LRT (Ep. 2) [Re: Josh_T] #2861008
08/11/19 08:20 PM
08/11/19 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 71
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Josh_T Offline OP
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Josh_T  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Thanks Sandi. A good reminder.

So a bit of an update, it's been over 3 weeks. W behavior has been consistent. Many times I've caught her reining in what would be an emotional outburst or a negative relationship behavior like bringing up the past or guilt tripping. That is nice. In all other respects, the R feels like it was before BD, but a bit better. Sex has started, and more frequent than before. Wether that stays regular, too soon to tell.

But there are two things that worry me. The first is the sex. It was an issue before BD and now it is a bit of a different issue. Call it performance anxiety. I see it as, well, it's been like 9 months so I'm out of practice. She, of course, has rewritten history and said it was something that was always a problem, then changed her tune to something that only happened for 2 years. Now it's like a problem. Except that it's only been a handful of times so I mean give it a chance. In any event sex (or the lack of it) was a key point for W. I can't help but feel a bit anxious

The second point is that when discussing this, she blurted out, without thinking, that it's too late to divorce and the only reason we are together is for the kids. I fell silent. She mentioned I was mean to her (re: DB), and there are key points in a life where there are divorce, like when kids go to high school, or leave the home. Now she is the kind of person who speaks what is running in her head, regardless of intent. Sort of a running dialog of her thoughts. But this one put some doubt in my head since we agreed I accepted her too early.

All I said after this was, I just want someone who spend time with, to learn from, to grow old with. I didn't really get an acknowledgment back.

I feel this could be the start of piecing and we are just sorting out old emotions and working out a new agreement. A nagging part of me feels that W, having a lazy personality, is making it work because precisely it is the easier route.

If she is faking it, how long could this go for? It feels quite genuine, and all relationships are going to have problems. I re-attached too quickly, maybe. Or deep rooted anxiety has resurfaced, which wasn't there a month ago when I firmly put it in my head that leaving would be a better life.

We are still in separate rooms and even after sex she won't stay. I've asked a few times on the w/e if she would stay in the MBR but besides the one time two weeks ago, it hasn't happened.

Sandi, back to your posting. I can only say, either my W isn't fully committed, or we are just going through a re-adjustment. And I really don't know which at this point.


Me: 45 w/ S5, D7
Current T: 9; M: 8 years; BD: 11-11-18; W: 42
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 45
Re: Anxious, Emotional Neglect, and LRT (Ep. 2) [Re: Josh_T] #2861893
08/19/19 01:18 PM
08/19/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,065
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sandi2 Offline
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It sounds as if your W can turn it on.......and turn it off, according to her mood. Is she giving you open mouth passionate kisses when having sex? To go from zero kissing to lots of kissing in the span of a few days is not impossible, but whether or not it will hold is the big question. A couple has to have more than just emotions to guide them in a relationship. It's a lot harder when you are trying to reconcile. That's why we talk about the importance of commitment. Feelings will be up & down in any MR. It's the commitment that holds the M together. Love is important, of course, but what I learned rather late in my life, is that love is a choice we make in our MR. We all love the feelings, b/c it's a lot easier when we are feeling it. What about those days life is throwing up on us and we aren't feeling the love?

Maybe your W is "trying" in her own way, but it seems to me that if she was really committed to saving the MR, she would stay in the MBR with you, instead of going back to her room after having sex. I'm just wondering if she is giving it a period of time to see if her feelings change.

I hope for your sake consistency abounds. Hope to hear from you more often.

((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Anxious, Emotional Neglect, and LRT (Ep. 2) [Re: Josh_T] #2861911
08/19/19 03:13 PM
08/19/19 03:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,308
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AnotherStander Offline
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Quote
The second point is that when discussing this, she blurted out, without thinking, that it's too late to divorce and the only reason we are together is for the kids. I fell silent. She mentioned I was mean to her (re: DB), and there are key points in a life where there are divorce, like when kids go to high school, or leave the home. Now she is the kind of person who speaks what is running in her head, regardless of intent. Sort of a running dialog of her thoughts. But this one put some doubt in my head since we agreed I accepted her too early.


Just listen and validate. Remember, validating isn't AGREEING. You don't have to agree with her to properly validate. It is just you acknowledging her feelings and that they are real to her whether you agree with them or not.

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All I said after this was, I just want someone who spend time with, to learn from, to grow old with. I didn't really get an acknowledgment back.


Of course you didn't, because you took a feeling that SHE was expressing and you made it all about what YOU want. VALIDATE!!!!!!! Remember, this is all about what SHE wants, what SHE is feeling. Quit turning it into your own personal wishlist!

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I feel this could be the start of piecing and we are just sorting out old emotions and working out a new agreement. A nagging part of me feels that W, having a lazy personality, is making it work because precisely it is the easier route.


Probably. It definitely doesn't sound like she's happy or that this is what she wants. So give her time and space, don't be in her face all the time. When she wants to talk then turn your listen and validation knobs to 10 and your talk knob to 1.

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If she is faking it, how long could this go for?


Months or even years before you get BD'd.

Quote
It feels quite genuine, and all relationships are going to have problems.


Quote
We are still in separate rooms and even after sex she won't stay. I've asked a few times on the w/e if she would stay in the MBR but besides the one time two weeks ago, it hasn't happened.


What you're describing does not sound like a strong recon to me, it sounds like a WAS who is giving it one last half-hearted try before throwing in the towel completely and saying "there, see, I tried everything and it just didn't work." I think you need to double down on your DBing and treat her like a WAS.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: Anxious, Emotional Neglect, and LRT (Ep. 2) [Re: Josh_T] #2864563
09/08/19 02:55 PM
09/08/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 71
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Josh_T Offline OP
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Josh_T  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 71
Somewhere
Well, it's been a few weeks since I've been on the boards here. The reason is that I've been overseas on business. Interestingly, just before I left, she wanted to come out with me on one of my pre-planned GAL outings. I agreed, and we had a blast. I also scheduled before we got together a stop-over to visit an old friend overseas. Adding in a GAL to my business trip which did wonders for me. So I'm back home, fully recovered from jet lag.

I have to admit, I've had anxiety about everything that has happened. I no longer show it, but it's been giving my emotions a roller coaster ride. The mind getting the best of me. However, coming back from my trip, things couldn't be better. Great family time this week and I also initiated sex. I haven't initiated for years yet the weeks before my business trip and this week I have been. The sex was in her bed and after it was done, this led to a long conversation about us.

It is about our future and how she isn't so sure but maybe in six months. I admit to her a bit of anxiety about our future since I'm looking for security. I said I'm interested in a long-term relationship (read into that committed). Remember, she wanted to come back so changing the tune again isn't something I want to hear. In any event, we talk about how great things are and things are going well. She made a funny comment about one of my DB tactics 3 months ago, where I flat out said I'm not supporting her if she moves out into an apartment. I say nothing. She has a tendency to ruminate on things she doesn't like and she certainly didn't like a few of the DB things I did, even if they were effective.

Also, keep in mind that sex has been problematic for me this last month. It doesn't bother me that much as it happens to everyone. I attribute it to the fact that it has been almost a year of inactivity and now we are into it almost weekly. She raises this as a concern. I reassure her and say that really, orgasm is really our own responsibility, there is a lot of change and it will pass. And then she starts saying stuff like in the future she can see the need to have multiple lovers to keep her satisfied. WTF? I say very clearly that while logically I don't have an issue with that is not what I want. Full stop. It will never be what I want and it is not something I am willing to accept ever. You see, 5 years ago I agreed for her to look outside our marriage because she complained about a lack of sex. The lack of sex was actually resentment on my part for her behavior and my inability to stand up as a champion nice guy. I rationalised it as me being a liberal guy and I really believed I just wasn't a sexual person. Who was I to deny her? I do know that right after sex our beliefs about sexuality can become very liberal (this has actually been studied, imagine being part of that experiment!). So I didn't feel that concerned about this. I stated clearly my boundary, she can decide how to deal with this. I didn't act anxious or worried about this in any way. I was just firm in what I wanted.

We also discussed the MBR situation and she actually started to explain what it would take to move back in. First time I've heard this. Her request was a lot about stuff guys don't care about like what sort of mattress will be used. However, she did talk about wanting to sleep together only on weekends stating I snore and twitch in my sleep. Honestly, now that I'm on this DB track I begin to realise she just pushes for what she wants and make excuses to justify. But when I confront, she will concede. Go figure. So I see this is a step in the right direction. I do like the idea of not always being in the same bed. But I also miss lying together. And I say as such. Once we are back in the MBR things will work out as to what the frequency is. Let's just get there first.

So today is another great day and we have lots of fun as a family. And then my S makes a comment about what it would be like if I wasn't around (he hasn't seen me for two weeks since I've been away on business). W follows up with a joke about not to worry, I'm back and we will be married for at least another 10 years. Odd comment but this time. And she jokes again about staying married to her mom when we drop the kids off for date night. Not that we've formally announced a separation to her parents, but I certainly read into that.

We do have a fabulous date night. She talks about her friends and how messed up their marriages are. She confides that she doesn't want to look good and brag about how I've changed over the last year. She tells me not to worry things are going well and that she is so lucky to found a partner who is also her best friend. She says she doesn't want to sell the house (which would happen if we separate because, hey, I won't support her). She said she just needed to come around in her time.

We also discussed this fallacy that in this modern era we expect our partner to satisfy every need. Impossible. That has never historically been the case and it will just lead to disappointment. We talked about how you can find what is missing in your partner elsewhere (within reason of course). We agreed both of us need separate vacations in addition to couple vacations in order to seek adventure and stay refreshed. Without stating her desire for wild sex with other men, I think she got this point.

As we end the date night to pick up the kids we talk about how this felt like our first date and joke about how we first met.

Wow, what a roller coaster of events. I actually think that I could almost say I'm piecing. I'm not going to get any hopes up, this is something DB has taught me. I'm not going to stop GAL. In fact, I'm not going to stop any of the DB techniques.

I've learnt that my emotions can get the best of me and that is something that has substantially improved. I've also learnt that standing up for boundaries has never ended up as bad as I thought and actually ended up for the better. Maybe it was in DB or Sandi who said the W always tries to push her boundaries and almost wants to be told off.

I've also learnt that actions are what count, not words. My W can speak S%%. Like an incessant outpour of thoughts and desires which can, for someone as sensitive as myself, be taken badly. But her actions do not match. How many times during this journey, W has said something shocking, only to not follow through or even reverse her view a day later. She gets caught up in the fantasy and while sometimes she takes it up (like wanting to live near the beach and she actually finds us a house near the beach), the majority of the time she does not.

In any event, as you can read, I feel quite positive, even though we still have a lot of work ahead of us. We're basically defining our M as we should have done 10 years ago.

I'm sure stuff will come up and I'm sure both of us will lapse every now and then. But for now, I feel W has a strong sense of commitment and I know I do the same.

Let's see what next month brings ...


Me: 45 w/ S5, D7
Current T: 9; M: 8 years; BD: 11-11-18; W: 42
Previous M: 4 years; Big D: 2004; XW: 45
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