Fine tuning my inner Me

[97Hope]

The more she puts pressure on him, the faster he will want to get away from her. Let her put the pressure on. You can take it completely off.

I read through the lighthouse and Sandi's rules.

I have the same questions you do. I've never even run for 5 min let alone a 5k - so I don't know, but I know that today my DIL sent me this:

"When I wanted to give up, God told me to get up."


I would pray long and hard about an R conversation. If timing is wrong - it's a disaster. You can see what he's doing, but he is lost right now. I know this from experience. You think that if you say the right thing, you will get clarity. H has nothing to give you right now.

Focus on what is working for you Peace. I don't believe in coincidence. I believe that God's timing is perfect. I was reminded of that today - by you!

We don't always get the answers but we can rest in the One who knows it all. That's what I do with my questions - I drag them back to Him. Sometimes multiple times a day. Then I get tired of doing that and get busy with GAL and self-care.

I'm blessed to read your updates. I hope you know that.

hugs

[Grace21]

I read through the lighthouse and Sandi's rules.

I can't find these. Could you please give me the links? Thanks.

The more she puts pressure on him, the faster he will want to get away from her. Let her put the pressure on. You can take it completely off.

I often wondered if this was really true, or are they developing a deeper connection (no matter how screwed up and damaged) as they go along. I sometimes feel like a fool, a bit embarrassed by the whole thing. Like I'm waiting around saying "pick" me" "pick me". I said to a friend just a few days ago that when her house sells, this will be the big push for her to have H commit, and more answers may come. It's been on the market for 1 1/2 years! She is still married too. Her H is seeing someone too. It blows my mind so many people can just do this with seemingly no problem.

Makes me wonder who (if anyone) will file for D first.

I won't be me, I don't think.

You think that if you say the right thing, you will get clarity. H has nothing to give you right now.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm almost desperate for clarity. Understanding the why. Getting a glimpse of my future. Wanting H to choose a path (to me?). I need to come to terms with the fact I may not ever get any of these things.


Hope - You've given me more to think about, and helped me narrow down the areas I need to work on.

Thanks.

Grace

[peacetoday]

Grace

You are doing well-

You are really gaining clarity day by day

and time will make things clearer--his path--your path
and then one day --its over-
life opens up new doors and closes some too
we just need the willingness to wait and watch and take care of ourselves

People are so desperate to be loved that they will engage in affairs but the affair partner is usually not a good pick
and chances of it working are slim and even if they stay together-it may be a horrible relationship

I do not believe the MLCer ever creates a good relationship with anyone-

2 half people do not make a whole-

[job]

97Hope and Grace,

I deleted the reference to another site name because one of the Board policies is that we agree not to post and/or reference other sites or post links to them.

[Grace21]

Journaling....

This is Part 1 of 2. It's lengthy so I split it up. As I write this, Part 2 hasn't happened yet. That's scheduled in 1 hour. Wish me luck!

After much soul searching, praying, discussion with a trusted friend, and divine intervention, I decided that I would meet with H and get on the record that his behavior with his girlfriend is not o.k., and that if that was the path he chose for now, we need to move for a more formal separation. I think I deserve my privacy in my own home, and the kids deserve more clarity. I’ve had 10 months to develop my clarity, the kids have not. They are hurting, badly. Especially my daughter. She doesn’t mention H, but I have to believe our sitch and his ignoring her plays a big role.

So as I already posted, I was very anxious during my vacation. For seemingly no reason. After I found out about H bringing OW to meet his mother, I called a trusted friend. She gave me so much clarity on my next course of action. I know this is not the DBing thing to do, but I realized that I have hit the moment where I needed to express to H that his actions are not o.k. I also realized that even though anxiety is running rampant, I am prepared for any outcome my discussion with him would bring.

That night, after talking with my friend, I woke up at 3 a.m. and couldn’t get back to sleep. I decided to read my bible. I sometimes write versus or prayers in my journal, so I turned to the latest entry. This is the last entry, undated, with no reference to where I heard it or read it:

“I was silent and I held my peace to no avail, and my distress only grew worse”. Psalm 39:2

This is the place I have finally come. I finally feel the need to share with my H. Be real, authentic, and honest. The burden of not expressing myself has become too much. It’s keeping me a bit stuck.

Prior to my late afternoon meeting (which as I write this is in 1 hours), D19 and I spent a morning and early afternoon shopping and a wonderful seafood lunch down by the water (although my stomach was so nervous I couldn’t eat much). She said over and over how great it was to spend time with me. I was glad for the distraction, and being with her seeing her happy made my heart melt. We chatted a bit about her anxiety, and how I hoped she would seek help immediately if she felt overwhelmed at school. She shared she saw a counselor there, and talked about her dad. I did not pry. She does not know I will see him later today, but I did say that dad is in a crisis, and I think we need to be prepared for the worst. She said she already had. I plan to get her into regular counseling with a therapist that’s not on campus to see her through the storm. She was receptive.

So the time is near. Nervous is an understatement. Anyway, I look good. I think real good. Thought that couldn’t hurt. Two friends messaged me words of encouragement and support. So thankful for them! As I write this I’m sad for H. He has no friends. OW is it, I’m 100% certain.

Off I go. I’m hoping to get there before H so I can choose the spot in the restaurant. I have to drop D19 off at work first, so it will be close.

I have no prediction whatsoever on how the course of events will unfold. I plan to read something I wrote after asking him is there is anything he would like to say. I believe I'm ready for any reaction. One doesn't really know until the event, does one?

More to come.

Grace

[kml]

I know this is not the DBing thing to do, but I realized that I have hit the moment where I needed to express to H that his actions are not o.k

You have DBing all wrong - it is NOT about being a doormat without healthy boundaries.

[job]

Wishing you good luck. I hope he listens or at least takes away from the meeting what your intent was, i.e., your children and the concerns that they have about what is going on. I pray that his "fog" will lift enough to truly listen to what you are telling him.

[Gerda]

Grace, you are feeling the burden. It seems to be going around, Nyla was the same.

Maybe you can read what I wrote to her. It's the same for you. You think you are going to wake H up. You aren't going to wake him up. You're just going to get yourself riled up.

I think that the only thing you can do at this juncture is decide that as long as he is with an OW, he can't visit your house. You can make boundaries. You can't tell him what to do. You can only set a limit on what you are willing to do.

And you don't have to tell him about it. Just tell God. Write a letter to H but don't give it to him. Write it and then set it on the river and watch it float away. Or burn it. Or bury it or read it out loud in an empty church and ask God to deliver it to him in a dream.

You don't have to make an announcement. Just choose for yourself. And if H shows up, you tell him you need to have your own space while he is pursuing his own life outside your marriage. You can even say, "Out of respect for our marriage, I can't see you while you are with another woman, but I will always pray for you and for our marriage."

Other people here won't agree with that but I have found that making that clear about the door being open has helped me find peace and have no regrets.

My son has come in and wants to go for a walk though it's almost 2 am. So I will sign off with love to you my friend. Come over for coffee tomorrow morning and I will give you a hug! : )

[Grace21]

Part II: (sorry, very long)

Meeting over. We spent about 1 hr 15 min there. We each had 1 beer. He was sitting at the bar when I arrived. I asked to be moved to a booth for privacy. He then looked worried.
There is way too much that occurred to include here, but I’ll pick the bits I remember more specifics on.

So, this is what I read to him:

H -
When I asked you to move out, I was hoping time and space would allow you to find yourself, and figure out how you want the rest of your life to look. I still stand by that, and understand that it is a difficult process and may not be anywhere near complete. Only you can decide that. I believed that I was giving you a gift. A gift of time and space to find yourself.

Although we are not living together, we are still married. You are still my husband, and I am your wife. We have 28 years of marriage, and 2 wonderful kids. I felt it was time for me to be true, authentic, and honest with you about our situation.

You are bringing your girlfriend to meet your mother. I can only assume you will also be seeing your cousins. I would like to know why you think this is the right thing to do. Because to me, it’s insanity. We are still married. I have loved your family like my own, and to me this is the epitome of disrespect. And I don’t think I deserve that. Our kids don’t deserve that. I have given you your time to start the process of figuring out your life, but I am not o.k. with your choice to ignore our vows, the fact that we are still married, and openly have a relationship with (OW). I can’t imagine anyone thinking this is o.k., including you and (OW).

Then I said ‘I’d like to hear what you have to say about that”.

True to the MLCr’s M.O., he tried to blame and OW, had excuses. He said “it’s not what you think”. He tried to explain that he wasn’t bringing her specifically to “meet his mom”. That she pressured him into him agreeing to go, and he caved. I called bull on that, that he could easily go himself and just tell her “no”. I told him I see his mom as my own, and I wanted him to know it’s like a nail in my heart that he would bring her to his mother’s home. There was a lot more back and forth over this. It got heated at first, but we both calmed down rather quickly.

I then made the mistake of saying that “I also understand you will be getting a new apartment. I’d like to know your plans for that, and whether she is moving in too.” This was too much after our lengthy discussion of him and OW. He blew up, and demanded to know where I was getting my information. I think he thought OW was feeding it to me. I was truthful, and told him. He said OW was looking for places, but he hasn’t agreed or participated. Hmmm. Don’t believe that. Maybe, maybe not. I have evidence to the contrary possibly. A hard check on his credit. We’ll see. I told him that every decision he’s making is moving towards her, and not his family, and maybe it’s time for the kids to know what’s going on, that he is establishing his own life apart from me. That their limbo isn’t fair. He thinks that it is none of their business and they are mainly at school anyway and it doesn’t affect them. I disagreed, and I told him that if he proceeds to live with her, they will be told. He’s not happy about it, I assure you. He doesn’t want to see that they are hurt, because he knows he’s the source.

In between all this, he broke down several times. He was really trying to control the tears. He is in such a dark, dark place, and I know he doesn’t know how to find his way out. I could feel his despair and turmoil very acutely. He mentioned disappearing, death, etc. I just listened. I wonder if rock bottom is near. I think he’s been hovering over it for a very long time. He expressed in general terms all the terrible things he’s done. We talked about choices pushing us to our destiny (he had posted something on FB related to this a few days ago). I asked him to think about what destiny he wanted, and that I had hoped he could find one small step he can make towards that. He listened.

He has such blinders on for our marriage. Typical MLCr stuff. The one and only thing he could say ”bad” about our marriage (and he’s said it many, many times before) was that “I never desired him. I believe this was in the context of why I would want to be married to him (I never said in the convo I did or didn't), and I’m happier without him and it was “obvious” I never had desire for him. I told him I was sorry he believed that for so many years. Not true, but in his mind, he believes it strongly. I asked him if he remembered any time when it was very evident I did desired him. He said no. I reminded him of a time about 9 years ago when we made a big effort to put all our energy into each other, and reminded him how he knew I was turned on. I also told him that for much of our married life, I got nothing from his to feed that desire. He actually agreed. He told me that he has thought a lot about how he failed in so many ways as a husband that wasn’t fair to me. That he knows he was a terrible husband to me. . For most of our marriage I told him I appreciated him saying that.

He also made a very declarative statement “I’m depressed. Clinically depressed”. He has done nothing to start the healing process in that regard though. He shared that he doesn’t have a single friend, and said he sees how all our friends have rallied with me and ignored him. I did not fall into the guilt trap. I refuse, because I know it’s not my fault. I reminded him our best friend reached out to him, but he only said “thanks” and never reached out back. His choices. He said he sees how happy I am, much happier without him. I shared a little bit about my journey these past 10 months, and how I found my inner happiness (and gave a few examples). I shared that I hoped the same for him, whether his journey included me or not.

He told me he loved me, that he always loved me and still does. I told him I loved him too. We held hands across the table. He said he was feeling so much pressure from himself, OW, everyone. That he was happiest when he was alone. I asked about what pressure he had from me. He made a comment about every time he comes over, I bring up something. I heard that loud and clear, and will make sure I adhere to that DBing principal going forward.

This is his journey, and he seemed to really take in at least a some of what we talked about. It’s a lot to process.

I don’t know, nor will I ask, if anything I said will change his plans. My intent for the meeting was not to throw down the gauntlet. And I didn't. It was for being real, expressing to H that his behavior is not o.k. with me. Towards the end I even said “OW’s H is having an affair, she’s having an affair with you, you’re having an affair, and OW and her H still live together and have no plans for D (because she needs the health insurance, apparently). That’s insanity! Really f’d up!” He said “yes it is”.

One thing very clear to me, though. OW definitely is not his key to happiness. He knows it too. Perhaps the seed to understanding that only he holds that key was planted. Only time will tell. Time will also tell whether he can overcome his fear of turning the key to unlock what’s inside. To face it.

If he gets a place with OW, I may pursue more formal separation arrangements. I need to process this first. Time, time, time. I am going to pay very close attention to our finances, too, in spite of his promises that he will “always take care of me and the kids”.

But, I feel a heavy burden lifted from my shoulder’s and soul.

These are the things I learned yesterday:

1. My fear of addressing difficult issues is now gone. That is a burden lifted, and a 180 for me.
2. H is in the depths of despair. He is lonely, miserable, and profoundly depressed. He may be hitting rock bottom.
3. H has a clear understanding that I do not believe his behavior with OW is o.k. (I believe he thought that my saying nothing and H seeing how happy I am said to him it was o.k. because I was getting on with my life). It’s lifted a burden from me now that I actually said it to him.
4. H knows my compassion for his turmoil. Maybe this is the seed for him to realize he really is not 100% alone.
5. I am in a good place. I’ve accepted that H is still on his own journey. I will continue mine.
6. I still have enough love and compassion for him to help H on his journey if he chooses to ask for it. He knows that I’m here even if the journey does not bring R. He knows I want him in a better place for himself.
7. H has made some progress. I don’t believe he recognizes it as such, but to be I think it’s very important. He realizes and is proud of the fact that he can take care of himself (i.e. cook, shop, do laundry, etc). Basics. He realizes, and admitted out loud, he is clinically depressed. He realizes how awful he was to me throughout most of our marriage, and admits he was a terrible husband. He has shown remorse to me for this.

About 1 hour after our meeting, he sent me an email: “Not an easy conversation to have, but I appreciate your honesty.”

This morning, he took the kids to breakfast. I saw him. We spoke for a while. Chit chat and a bit about the kids. He told me that he had a good conversation with the kids, that they are adults, and he wants them to not just look at him as “dad”, but as an adult man that makes mistakes and has flaws just like everyone else. That he sees them as adults, and that he (and I) are stepping back for them to make their own decisions. He seemed very pleased about it as he said they were receptive. There was no talk about his crisis or OW, however. And for now, I don’t think I will speak to the kids about it.

Time will bring answers.

I am holding the Lord’s hand, and letting Him show me the path as my journey continues.

Grace

[kml]

Ok , now that you've had your say (and you did well) you need to let go and focus on YOUR life. Are you living your dreams? If not, what is holding you back?

I know he said a lot of things that you might read as hopeful - but let's be real here. This is a man who has cheated on you 5 times (that you KNOW of) with two of those being long term affairs. He has deep serious problems beyond simple depression and you should NOT consider taking him back unless he has done a LOT of work (say, for example, a year of individual counseling and 12 step meetings for sex addiction).

More likely he has a personality disorder (like narcissism) or just a serious moral character defect.

Now I grew up Catholic and I understand people who would not date or marry again if their spouse divorced them. If those are your beliefs, then fine - that's your choice to make. But you must ask yourself why you don't believe you deserve more? Would you advise your daughter to stay in a relationship with a man who was a serial adulterer?

Despite everything he said yesterday, I predict he will move ahead with moving in with the OW. Let go or be dragged. Focus on YOUR life and let go of him - he is years away from being ready to reconcile, if ever.