I am working away from home right now, and H is at the house with both kids. Everything seems to be going well. We did have a talk about boundaries and behaviour expectations which I agreed to, then last night Eldest started testing them. I found it very upsetting and difficult to stick to the boundaries we had agreed (and which I do think are reasonable and did not agree to just to please H) and he was supportive in that moment, though I can see he was frustrated too. I need to talk about why I find it so scary and difficult in my IC I think, and I will.
Just thinking about forgiveness. About that being a step forward. I want to forgive. What gets in the way is that I am not sure that the things that have hurt me won't happen again. Not forgiving almost feels like keeping my guard up. Being wary and prepared. I think H is in the same boat. I do think he's wise not to want to live with an unforgiving and defensive wife, and I want to move past that, but I am not sure how yet.
And I have to be honest here Alison: you need to forgive your husband for the past. I can see lots of 'I understand how he was like this because I was like that' but I don't see any forgiveness yet. Maybe it's too early for you. I feel like until you can forgive him at least a bit (emotionally, not just intellectually) and let go of some of your resentments you will find it hard to trust that he can change, and your behaviour will make it harder for him to change, because you'll constantly be judging and waiting for him to slip up and go back to old habits. I can see that he did a few things during family therapy which seemed like old habits, but it sounds like outside that he also did some positive things which show willingness to change. Maybe try to focus more on the positive stuff than the negative, it takes time to change habits and if you believe the worst of him then he'll live down to those expectations. None of his terrible behaviour was acceptable, just like my husband's behaviour was unacceptable, but they both had their reasons for behaving that way and they had no malicious intent, they were responding in a really terrible way to stuff they felt and to the way we acted and reacted. But forgiveness is a process and a very long and difficult and cyclical one too, I'm finding. Anyway, I'm playing devil's advocate to some of the stuff you're saying, I know you've had a bad day or two and I hope you manage to find your hope again.
Just taking this from Dilly's thread and thinking about it here so I don't clutter up her thread with my own situation.
I think if I am stuck, this is where it problem is. I feel like I am fairly self aware - with more work to do, of course - and I can see my place in the dynamic and own my short comings. I feel like I have good 180s and while nowhere near perfect, I am working on them. I love my H and I don't need him to be perfect, though I feel incredibly hurt and wary and suspicious of his motivations. He has absolutely consistently said he wants to work on things with me for the last three months. I could give him a long list of things I want to work on, but he hasn't ever been specific about what he thinks he needs to change. He says he'd like to be more 'open' sometimes - and I think that's part of it, and I have seen him trying to do that in small ways that do matter and clearly make him feel vulnerable.
But I don't feel forgiving. I guess I am waiting for him to say sorry - to show proper remorse - before I feel safe that he isn't going to do the old stuff again and hurt me again. And I can see how my lack of forgiveness and waryness leads me to assume the worst about his motivations, which of course isn't going to make him feel safe in being open. I just feel so so so so relieved to be out of that old M that I am terrified of being tricked and sucked back to something that would look like it. I was miserable. I think I'm as much as WAW as I am a LBS in this case. Or a WAW that hasn't quite walked away, or has one eye over her shoulder. I don't know.
Does anyone have any suggestions about forgiveness?
Yes, this seems so true to me from the outside. And also from the perspective of someone who has at least started to forgive my dh. My husband has not said sorry by the way, nor that he wants to work on things, the forgiveness has to start with you on your side (even if he did say sorry are you sure you would believe him?). I'm not sure that saying sorry and forgiving are that closely related. You do have an odd situation where you kind of are the WAW...
For me, the forgiveness has come from trying to understand why he's done what he's done (which might be easier for me given dh has not to my knowledge had an EA or PA), try to see this separation as a sign that things need to change in our marriage, that long-held habits have to alter, that we've both had our defences up against each other and they have to come down, that I have to change my part and my assumptions about dh, and to forgive myself for my part, and to have hope that true change is possible. To work on myself and being open whilst hoping dh is also working on his side and then trying to avoid my usual responses to his behaviour and then working on repair when one or both of us get triggered.
Gosh, no wonder it's all taking so long
I hope that things continue to go ok between eldest and your H.
even if he did say sorry are you sure you would believe him?
This made me laugh. Only because I think you're spot on. I don't think I would believe him. That's kind of the situation we were in after his EA. I was so so so so upset and he was partly very remorseful and making it up to me, and partly getting exhausted by my demands that he make me feel better and we were richocheting between those two states and it was terrible, and in the end he said he felt like I was this bottomless pit of need he would never be able to satisfy and he totally checked out. I can see why he'd feel like that. I have a HUGE problem with trust and that isn't something he can fix for me. I am working on that with IC but I am not there yet. Even when good things happen, I can always find a way to rationalise myself into mistrust - feeling like he's manipulating me, that he doesn't mean it, etc etc. I know this problem is me rather than him because I am like this with everyone. What makes it tricky is that H has acted in ways that have broken my trust and while I want to let that go into the pass, I don't feel emotionally safe with him yet.
I don't think I'll be ready to R until I am at the baseline of theoretically being able to trust someone, even if that person ends up not being H. I have a ways to go.
I want to try to notice the positive though. I was away from work and got home later than I thought I would yesterday. H texted me during the day and asked if I would change our plans and have Youngest instead of him, because he was tired and wanted to catch up on his work. I said yes, and I also said I felt a bit vulnerable doing all this to support him in his work and it made me feel afraid I was being taken advantage of or made a fool of. I don't know whether saying that was good or not, but I was feeling a bit resentful and insecure about giving him the things he's asked for - being as encouraging as I can, doing the bulk of the childcare and child admin, etc etc. Anyway - I did say it. And he was accepting of that and said he was grateful, and it was just temporary until he finished his project. When I finally did get home I was exhausted and he messaged again and said he'd go and collect Youngest and bring him home to me so I could have a nap and a shower, which was thoughtful and I appreciated. It felt like a compromise, and for the very first time in a long time we were parenting together - each thinking about the other's needs and making a contribution. I also saw that when he came to the house to drop off Youngest he was wary of me - probably expecting me to be tired and resentful and blaming and grumpy and a pain - so I just made some chit chat with him and made a fuss of Youngest, and then he relaxed. I can see he is still very scared of the prospect of me being critical of him or unhappy with him.
That sounds pretty positive! I think noticing the positive things is a massive part of this, because for so long we've focused on the negatives. I think also that what you said sounded assertive rather than needy, there's a difference between being honest in a calm way and dumping all your negative emotions on him. I think you handled that well.
I need to learn about that. Being assertive. Asking for what I need and not demanding it. Being open about how I feel without making the solution to my feelings someone else's problem or responsibility. I am spectacularly bad at all of that. I can see why H would be scared and wary about coming to the house to drop off Youngest after I'd said I was exhausted and feeling a bit resentful - I'm glad it worked out well, but it is only a small step.
He texted affectionately this morning and asked how I was feeling and did I get sleep. He reminded me he is going to come on Sunday morning for an hour to discuss the homework from the therapist, and also suggested a date on Monday.
Thanks so much. I know it's just a small step and I am not ready in myself and I don't think he's ready for anything else either. That feels okay today. I'm actually learning to value my time alone and I know there are more things I need to work on - regardless of what happens with my R - that it is better for me to work on outside of working on the R.
I am not sure how to tell when I am 'in piecing'. I don't think - knowing me as I am - that I can rely on H doing or saying something that would make me certain of that. I need to look inside myself. I don't think I am ready myself yet.
I can't offer much advice on piecing other than what I have read here. Look for consistent behavior from your H, validate where you can and continue to focus on your 180's and GAL. Most of all keep your expectations of your H low. I suspect you are in piecing when you don't need to double think every action before you make it. You can just send a text, make a phone call etc without investing any energy or emotion into whether you should send the text/make the phone call.
This is a journey for him as much as for you and he too is trying to process a lot of emotions. He wants to make that journey with you but he is processing hurt and guilt and probably resentment. This does not mean give him a get out of jail free card for bad behavior, but just a side note to say be patient. So, there might be some pulling away, some distancing but be patient with this. He too is learning to trust again.
I do recall from your earlier posts your H could be abusive (mostly verbal if I remember correctly). This is not on. If you are to build a relationship 2.0 then it needs to start as it means to go on. Whilst patience is key to this, you need to also be able to respect yourself. And you can't do that with someone who doesn't show you respect. I appreciate you don't want to do anything would reduce the chances of reconciling, but you need to respect you. I would call him up on this now. Calmly but with authority. "I want to make this work, our M is worth saving, but I won't stand here whilst you speak like that".
Anyway, thanks for piping up on my sitch. I would love if my H called just to see how I was. He never does. All the calls are about the children. You are doing really well Alison.
