I'm glad you're doing well, though still struggling with connection and desire. Expanding on May's suggestions, have you heard of the "Adventure Date Challenge Book"? There are several types out, but essentially, it gives you random and exciting date ideas. The whole premise is to focus on completing the date together and enjoy the ride. Maybe instead of waiting for H to plan something on his own (or God forbid suggesting that he do so), this would take the pressure off and allow for a new experience that you could both share together. Plus, you can set aside a planned evening and dedicate yourselves to the teamwork aspect . I am sure it feels frustrating to not have the desire come as easily as it once did. I know one of my fears is staying and not ever having that complete trust and connection again. Thanks for updating us all and being such a strong, empowering female on the forums.
KG
LBW 32 - me WW 31 T 7 M 4 No Kids 4 dogs
Separated 1y Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Is there something crazy that *you* want to do? And you can sign up and invite him along? You can always start small and build up to something larger down the line. Like go to one of those pottery places where you paint your own pieces, see stand up comedy or go a video games and skee ball type place and just have fun... not necessarily learning a new language or something big like that. Maybe it will help with the motivation if you sincerely want to do whatever activity in and of itself, not just as a means to spend time or reconnect with him. (And FWIW, maybe you give him a couple of suggestions to decide between so that *he* also has some agency and buy-in as well!) if you're reading a good book, can you give it to him afterwards to read and then talk about it? I feel like there are all these things that we used to do with our Hs early on, dating and talking late into the night about important things, and then I know at least for me a lot of those long interesting conversations end up happening with girlfriends rather than with H.
I have two other questions. (Sorry!! I can't help it.) Is he better, now, at verbalizing what he feels or wants or needs, or do you have to be vigilant to see it happening and stop it? If so, I can see how that must be so very very tiring and a lot of pressure on you. And my other question is-- have you ever told him explicitly you'd love nothing more than for him to plan something for the two of you? If not, is it something you would consider?
Here's a thought-- I read somewhere about an idea for a vacation to have every person (kids included) to have one day 100% percent to themselves to plan, and no-one else gets to have any sort of say in the plans for that one day. I love that idea. I gave my girls the day of "yes" a couple of weeks ago and it was so, so fun. I said yes to everything they suggested, including watching TV in the middle of the day, eating goldfish and candy at 10 am, jumping in the cold swimming pool all together and making a giant bubble bath with a ridiculous amount of bubbles. It was soul-feeding for me even though I would barely have wanted to do any of it (well, maybe except for the bubble bath, but that was just them anyway.) Maybe something like that could work for your family, or at least for your H-- what a 180 for him to actually plan a whole day of things for the family (or for the two of you) that are 100% his decision, no guilt because next time will be your turn. Just a thought.
M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Blu - I've just read back through your first post. Everything you said about their guilt and shame seemed true to me - and indeed is something I have been pondering for some time. Thank you for sharing. It is a truth I don't think my husband will ever want to share with me, but reading your words helped me to reframe some of the more negative thoughts that are rearing their ugly heads.
Also, thank you for continuing to post here and to help others. I am always astonished by posters, like yourself, who continue to give their time to this community long after their sitchs have resolved (though reading some of the piecing threads, are they ever really resolved).
I read somewhere about a couple who took turns coming up with ideas for date night. They had to go through the alphabet - each coming up with a date idea starting with whatever letter they were on. It included "Art class", "Wine Tasting", "Bubbly and Chocolates", "Chocolate making", "Pottery". It takes the pressure of having to talk, and gave a focus to the dates. You spend time together and build some shared memories.
(((Wayfarer))) I could have written your post almost verbatim. It all resonates with me. I am sorry for your pain. It is so hard to "wake up" after BD and come to these realizations. Needless to say, this has been a very long journey for me, as I am thinking it could be for you. I have had to overcome a lot of depression and anxiety, in addition to piecing, while simultaneously making sense of the years leading up to BD. I am not necessarily a believer that everything happens for a reason, because in my line of work I see so many terrible things happen to good people that are undeserving on a daily basis. However, I choose to believe that we can find reason in everything that has happened. For me, this has been the biggest silver lining in my sitch. I can reflect back on my life and myself in ways that are more open-minded, less judgmental and also more forgiving now. I am open to looking at my own flaws and I am more open to change and therefore personal growth. I think I like myself more now than I did before. So while I do not feel grateful for the pain/suffering that BD caused, I do feel grateful for the awakenings that have happened in the last few years during the recovery. That is my biggest wish for everyone here, and I think it is more meaningful than saving a M, because some of them simply not salvageable (without the other half willing).
Kristin, thanks for that idea, I will look into it. It sounds like an excuse, but the time is also hard to find. The desire/connection is really not the same as it was the first many years of our M. Before someone betrays us or hurts us, we see them in a different light. We trust them and we also imagine things will be a certain, better, way (rosy glasses). I thought my H was amazing, perfect, would never hurt me, and we would have this incredible romance forever. I was truly blind and in shock when this unfolded 6 years ago. .... So when we then make a choice to recover a broken R, we do so without the rosy glasses. We now know this person is capable of betrayal and harm, so the love feels different. It feels like a calculated decision and less of a feeling or emotion that comes naturally. I choose to believe there is honor in this type of love, or second chance, because I am not sending the message that I can be a forgiving person and also that I can still love him despite his flaws. I just wasn't willing to do that until I saw his remorse, transparency and commitment to doing whatever it took. For me, I needed that to come before accepting him back. I also am learning that I am different than you, May and other posters, who have different criteria :-) It has been helping me to read and be more open-minded.
TBC
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
May, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will have to think more on the dating ideas. I feel as if my life is so full right now that it is hard for me to prioritize my R with him. I can barely keep up with things here! At the same time, I am often annoyed by people saying they are "too busy' for things because I believe that we make choices by what we prioritize! I was being polite to a new co-worker and talking about what Netflix series' I have liked and she told me she was too busy for television. She sounded so snooty when she said it. Um, what? I don't believe she is married, has kids, and her job title is far less demanding than mine. I am over here working full time with plenty of OT (I mean 16 hr shifts), 3 kids, and I still run my household, drive them to their sports and activities and find time to volunteer to their programs. And guess what? I still make occasional time for tv because I enjoy it and like to tune out of my life. I was sick with strep a couple weeks ago and enjoyed being in bed and powering through a hilarious series. What I don't have time for is that lady and her judgy tone! Sorry for the rant, but come on. Telling ME your busy is just asking to get shut down. I was proud of myself for smiling and saying none of that :-)
Anyhow, I know if it's important to me to have fun and new adventures with H, I will do it. It feels hard right now. I feel like there are still some things we need to come to agreements on or agree to disagree on. I don't imagine either of us want to have these conversations because they end up in arguments. It is exhausting. And they hurt in a new way.
"Is he better, now, at verbalizing what he feels or wants or needs, or do you have to be vigilant to see it happening and stop it?" YES. He is. He has made several changes or at least he tries. He was committed to making positive changes when he came back, because he knew he had to offer me more than a simple apology. He grasped how complicated things would be to piece. I think the NMMNG book became an important part of his recovery because so much of it spoke to him. He felt like the book was written for him.
"And my other question is-- have you ever told him explicitly you'd love nothing more than for him to plan something for the two of you? If not, is it something you would consider?" This seems like a simple answer, but it's not. I have told him so many times, before and after BD. There have been times he has tried and it is often the same, thoughtless dates with no creativity. Other times, he responds with how flexible he is and he will do whatever I want. That doesn't go over well. Usually his response is that I am guarded and do not seem open to him. That never goes over well. So we easily fall back into old routines. I say when we should go out and I plan it. Lame, I know. Like I said before, the issue right now is more my lack of motivation to create more closeness. I think we will need to flesh out a few things and I think we both are avoiding the inevitable arguments that will come with that.
Flysolo, thank you for posting. I think I have read some of your posts, but not all. I appreciate you messaging me. I try and stay around here and read and post, but I can't seem to balance even one hour a day, unfortunately.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Just read your update. Nothing like having your world turned upside down to offer you some new perspective, right? As for the "too busy for tv" thing, well I've been guilty of saying things like that to act holier than thou. Looking back, it is embarrassing. I consider it an objection and not a condition.
As for your H not taking charge, I can see how that would disappointing. You just want him to come up with something fun and not say he'll "do whatever". You want him to give it some thought and effort, right? Well, all I can say is to be sure you communicate what you actually want (occassionally anyways). My W doesn't like to say what she actually wants, she just wants it to happen. I can understand that too, it's just that every once in a while it doesn't hurt to mention and make sure us dudes are having an awareness about this stuff.
That "do-whatever" mentality is what caused me to take 45 minutes to pick a movie. My wife hates that too. Just think of this way: one time my W and I drove around for an hour and half because I couldn't decide where I wanted to eat. You don't have it that bad do you? My W always says "this isn't your last meal", to which I respond "you don't know that!".
What tv shows are you watching? I've been watching a lot of 90 Day Fiance and Married At First Sight. They are my cheap entertainment. I am waiting for my next "deep" show to come out. I don't know what it is yet so I'll probably go rewatch the Sopranos or something in the meantime.
Last edited by ovrrnbw; 02/27/2008:26 PM.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Blu, from my days as an animal trainer... is there a way you can make the goal easier for your H to achieve? So instead of planning a whole date from scratch (which he'll fail at, either not do or do something boring) you give him some set options to work from? Or alternatively, he plans something that is totally boring but you still reinforce it really heavily (because at least he planned it), make him feel great, and then the next time give him hints to help him stretch a bit more?
Another idea (sorry, I know I'm a solutioner and that can be really annoying, I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND how you're feeling and maybe don't want a lot of ideas right now) is to write him a letter or an email? Say how the best gift he can give you for (special occasion) would be to plan something along these lines-- again make it easy for him to succeed, or rely on a friend or a kid to help guide him? I have read that sometimes having a written letter is more impactful than saying in person, because you can be really clear and they can refer back to it, plus it carries a formality and weight that speaking in person doesn't really have.
on other topics... I hate those snooty people who are too good for TV! Or whatever. Try not to let their judgmental nonsense bring you down! And I'm glad he's improved a lot in his NMG behaviors.
Originally Posted by BluWave
Like I said before, the issue right now is more my lack of motivation to create more closeness. I think we will need to flesh out a few things and I think we both are avoiding the inevitable arguments that will come with that.
I guess I'm just not totally connecting on this. Is there any way to unhinge your lack of motivation for closeness to whatever conversations need to be had that will lead to arguments? This is probably naive but it kind of seems like if you could set cultivating more closeness as a first goal, that could lead to scenarios where the next steps could happen in a place where you're both feeling better about each other and the R and therefore less arguing or at least more constructive conversations about the things that need to be fleshed out?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I have lost track of what is happening here. I look forward to the day when things slow down and I can catch up on some of your sitches. I am an ICU nurse & charge nurse in an area that is preparing to get hit hard in the days and weeks to come. We have a very vulnerable and diverse population. It has been surreal. I have been working almost every day, and the stress and anxiety wherever I turn is palpable. I am not eating or sleeping well and I find myself in this perpetual state of fight or flight. We cannot get test results on our patients in a timely manor. We do not have enough appropriate isolation rooms or PPE. I have to ration PPE to my staff and ask them to resuse it. We know when the patients come in larger numbers we will run out. Nurses are falling off the schedule. We will need double or quadrouble the staff to accommodate the volume we may see. And on and on ... I am not afraid of getting sick. I am afraid of being in a situation where we cannot care for people and have to neglect care we would normally be able to provide. It kills me to even think about ... it is also interesting to see people's different responses during a crisis. Some stand up and fight, some hide, some try to carry on and act as if business is usual .... I feel proud that I am a fighter.
My kids have been shelter in place. They are doing well with it thus far. It has been strange in some ways and there have actually been some positives that I didn't anticipate. We have had more family dinners, game nights, and time together. A usual evening is driving them around to practices, lessons and games. Now we are all together and sometimes it is nice. H has been awesome. He has been shopping (with his social distancing of course), organizing, cleaning, and taking on with helping the the kids schooling (which is now online).
I feel fortunate that we are both able to still work and support our family. I am lucky my kids are old enough to be home alone so we can still go to work. We still have our health. I think life as we know it will be different after this pandemic calms down. I imagine we will all learn some valuable life lessons from this time. I am already thinking about what is important to me and why. I already feel gratitude that i can make a positive difference in my community. Much like the chaos of BD, I am learning more about my own personal strengths and what I am capable of.
Take care of yourselves everyone :-)))
Blu
AND STAY THE F HOME, PLEASE!
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Wow Blu, that sounds terribly stressful! Thank you for your service to the community in this difficult time and may your workload be lessened very soon!
Regarding staying home, I am pretty angry about that. My boss is old school and thinks people are goofing off if they work from home. He directed us to keep going to the office even though we could work from home. Two women that work here are pregnant for crying out loud!! I work in Dallas and Dallas County passed a shelter-in-place order. Well guess what, my boss decided that since we do design work for a telecom company that the order doesn't apply to us and wants us to STILL come to the office. I'm here today but I just flat-out told him I'm going to be working from home for a while, I'm very fit and healthy but at 58 I really can't afford to take chances with my life. But I have to balance that with keeping an income flowing, one of my daughters lost her job yesterday and the other just survived a first wave of lay-offs but more are on the way. These are very difficult times for everyone but especially those in your profession.
One of my neighbors/in-laws family friends is married and his wife is a RN. She just got laid off b/c she works in surgery and they aren't doing any of that. Now I probably have half of the story right but I figured someone might hire her before this whole mess is over. I am staying positive that we can and will care for everyone that needs it.
I don't know if you have a yard but my W and her sister were always practicing at home, lots of drills that their pitching coach gave them to work on and other skills too!
I pray that our economy bounces back quickly too because that has the potential to hurt many as well. We have to count our blessings. Stay safe.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
. I am sure it feels frustrating to not have the desire come as easily as it once did. I know one of my fears is staying and not ever having that complete trust and connection again. Thanks for updating us all and being such a strong, empowering female on the forums.