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Hi Blu,

I’ve been reading through your sitch lately and was curious about the email you wrote your H that started his quick turnaround. You stated that you didn’t want to live in limbo, it wasn’t fair to confuse the kids, and that if he was planning on filing for D, then get going so you could move on with your life.

Was the email indeed that short? Did you expand on anything else like explaining the damage that was being caused by the PA or trying to open his eyes that he was chasing a fantasy?

My WW has been having multiple PAs for 11 months. I too am ready to end my limbo one way or the other. I have drafted an email, but it contains many, many questions about her choices for W to think about. I’m debating whether I’ll ever send it or perhaps a majorly condensed version.

Thank you,
Curtis


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Hey Curtis,

Thanks for checking in. First off, I can't say now that I would suggest writing a letter like I did. In hindsight, it was not the reason for his turn around, rather it was one of many elements happening that led to his downward spiral. I think most of the things going on with him may have been unrelated to where I was at. It also goes against the DB principles that we learn here. My letter was long, it was heartfelt and it was honest. I told him that I didn't want to live in limbo anymore, and I didn't. Limbo for me was not having any legal separation or D, it meant we still owned our home together, and while he was staying at his parents and OWs, he was also coming/going from the house and some evenings I would have to leave at dinner time, and also all of our finances were shared. It was awkward and uncomfortable. For example, the days I worked, I had to get up and leave the house by 630 am and so he would come over before that and get the kids ready for school and then we would swap cars. He would make my coffee and sit there like an outsider in our shared home, looking sad and hopeless, as I was leaving for work. It was total cr-ap!

Basically my letter stated that it was time for him to make some decisions and that it was time to change the sitch. We both knew we couldn't afford the home on our own. It wasn't fair to anyone to live in pieces and unsettled, esp the confusion it caused our younger kids. Turns out that my letter also came around the same time his own mother wrote him a letter expressing her disappointment in him, and then she left the country for a month to stew in her words. He also was growing tired of the double life -- pretending to be a good dad and family man to our kids (even tho he was leaving their mom) and then going off to OW -- and it haunted him. He was becoming thin, tired, and even getting sick. At the same time, and maybe more important than anything, he was starting to become increasingly unhappy with OW. She was one of his only friends left, but there was a lot he didn't like about her or trust. Once the momentum of his downward spiral started, there was no turning back for him. My letter was just the threat of a nail in his coffin. It was the realization that he now had to fight his way out of, what felt like, a near impossible situation. I basically removed myself form plan B at the same time he realized I was actually what he wanted.

Not sure that helps. I don't recommend a letter for most people on the boards! Maybe in the case where the WAS is showing a lot of doubt and remorse but hasn't quite made the final leap yet. More importantly, the letter cannot be used to trick them into thinking they will lose you. You have to be ready to follow through in your words and let them go entirely. I was honestly fed up with him and his BS and knew I deserved better. That was in the letter too :-)

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Originally Posted by BluWave
First off, I can't say now that I would suggest writing a letter like I did. In hindsight, it was not the reason for his turn around, rather it was one of many elements happening that led to his downward spiral. I think most of the things going on with him may have been unrelated to where I was at.
Blu, thanks for responding. Interesting, I misinterpreted or more likely missed some later posts. I was under the impression the letter triggered his rapid turnaround. I can see how several items can accumulate at once for the WAS and make them feel that loss. It seems that’s what happened for your H.

Originally Posted by BluWave
My letter was long, it was heartfelt and it was honest. I told him that I didn't want to live in limbo anymore, and I didn't. Limbo for me was not having any legal separation or D, it meant we still owned our home together, and while he was staying at his parents and OWs, he was also coming/going from the house and some evenings I would have to leave at dinner time, and also all of our finances were shared. It was awkward and uncomfortable. For example, the days I worked, I had to get up and leave the house by 630 am and so he would come over before that and get the kids ready for school and then we would swap cars. He would make my coffee and sit there like an outsider in our shared home, looking sad and hopeless, as I was leaving for work. It was total cr-ap!
Wow, sounds like it was awkward and very frustrating to live like that. Your limbo was much different than mine. WW and I have been physically separated for over 6 months. We each have our own house and share the kids 50/50. Kids are starting to hate it at her place, they just want to be back home full time. WW is cycling between multiple OM. I’m sick and tired of the betrayal. It’s wearing on me and the kids. My limbo is more wanting to move on if my W doesn’t want to R. Finding someone that will love and respect me.

Originally Posted by BluWave
Basically my letter stated that it was time for him to make some decisions and that it was time to change the sitch.
I’ve also felt that the right thing to do is give her the choice. Lay out that I’m done living this way and let her make the decision. Yes, it is forcing a decision, but I’m not going to live this way for another year or two.

Originally Posted by BluWave
He also was growing tired of the double life -- pretending to be a good dad and family man to our kids (even tho he was leaving their mom) and then going off to OW -- and it haunted him.
I can’t fathom how my WW cam keep up the double/triple life with all of the lies she’s told me and the OM. It must be extremely burdensome to keep it all straight in her head and change her personality based on who she’s communicating with. I have to think she’ll be haunted for the rest of her life if we D and she knows she never gave us a chance.

Originally Posted by BluWave
Once the momentum of his downward spiral started, there was no turning back for him. My letter was just the threat of a nail in his coffin. It was the realization that he now had to fight his way out of, what felt like, a near impossible situation. I basically removed myself form plan B at the same time he realized I was actually what he wanted.
So, you removed yourself as plan B by stating in the letter that it was time for him to make a decision and change the sitch? No mention of D or separation, just that the sitch had to change? Start moving in one direction or the other?

Originally Posted by BluWave
Not sure that helps. I don't recommend a letter for most people on the boards! Maybe in the case where the WAS is showing a lot of doubt and remorse but hasn't quite made the final leap yet. More importantly, the letter cannot be used to trick them into thinking they will lose you. You have to be ready to follow through in your words and let them go entirely. I was honestly fed up with him and his BS and knew I deserved better. That was in the letter too :-)
The contents of my letter are similar. Mine was not intended to be a threat. I mean it that I’m finished with the crap and BS. I’m not tolerating it any longer. Not sure if you’ve kept up with my sitch, but I take it you wouldn’t recommend I deliver such a letter as my WW has not really shown any chinks in her armor or movement away from the OM except during Retrouvaille weekend.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Hey Blu.

I just finished reading your sitch from start to finish. I am in the process of picking some of the vets and really diving into the full stories so I can hopefully gain a deeper understanding of advice and support that you all so generously give. It has been an honor to read of your journey and I'm so happy for the peace you have found within. Regardless of your M, you have found your worth and your happiness.

One of your most recent anecdotes about your husband and the weed killer pre-BD and post-BD really resonated with me. I'm not sure if you meant it this way, but if you think about M, and think about how both spouses should guard their relationship, your story takes on a whole new meaning.

Before any sign of trouble within your marriage your H was preparing the beautiful garden around your home. He carefully selected all of the best foliage and meticulously planned every placement.

Just when he was about to "weed proof" the surrounding areas, you both decided against it and went about the finishing touches. The garden looked beautiful and you made so many memories in and around it together. BD - WH leaves his amazing Blu and is taken over by the haze of confusion and poor choices. The garden, left unprotected, is eventually infested with weeds and becomes completely unmanageable. The lovely flowers grow disproportionately and the whole area looks a mess.

Fast forward a few years, and your H has returned. You both are now remodeling your garden. Together, you select a beautiful arrangement of plants and fauna. THIS time, you decide to make certain that you are preventing any type of infestation. Your garden and all of it's flowers are protected. You and your husband are effectively guarding your marriage. I truly hope that you are both in the early bloom of building a strong, and lasting romance.

Thank you Blu, for sharing your story and I do hope you continue to give advice and post.


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
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Hello friends,

I hope you are all well and managing your M woes. I know I have been missing from the boards. My life has been consumed with day-to-day stuff, kids, work, home life, and most of all the kids' travel sports (their practices, lessons and weekends out of town). This season kicked my behind with a lot of travel and exploring the option of my middle playing college ball. It is a lifestyle and one that is super exhausting, and also filled with highs, but maybe more lows. I found myself getting pulled in too far and it started to feel overwhelming. Like all things in life, sometimes we have to step back and ask ourselves why we are doing something! So as a parent, I had to think about the lessons I was teaching my kids and make some difficult decisions and changes.

I feel pretty good about those changes. I liken being a sports mom to how I handle other things in life, including my M. I tend to put an obsessive amount of energy into things and often I can get it to work. I am actually embarrassed to admit how far I have taken things for my kids sports. The thing is, it works. Putting a lot of time and energy into something and networking to the top leaders in that field, often works. It does for me anyways. But what I am also realizing is that the end result might actually be the same. I think the same can be said about relationships. We can do all of these things to try, manipulate, and understand someone and we may even get them back. However, the end result years later might just be the same. Sometimes we have to let go of control and let things unfold naturally. I know I do. I am not sure how much sense that makes to people. This season we had to let go of something big in order to make room for something better.

Curtis, how are things? I still need to read your sitch. I don't visit here enough to keep up with people. I apologize.

Kristin, thank you for reading and replying. I appreciate the support. I will try and check out your threads too.

My M is in an interesting place. Things are okay on a day to day basis. We have moments were we tolerate each other and are annoyed by the same old things. Then we have these bursts of closeness. A spark is still in there. It is hard to access that on any continual basis. I suspect that is mostly my fault. Sandi talks a lot about having to have respect for attraction to be genuine. I completely agree. I have to train myself to respect him. By that I mean letting go of grudges and accepting his actions and who he really is. Sometimes I pick at things or hold on to hard feelings. I know it is not always fair. I can feel it. I think we are also not good at communicating. We get annoyed and bicker and then we wait for it to pass. I have to change that. I am trying to think of new ways I can communicate outside of the moment in a more calm and respectful way. Sometimes the most basic things feel the hardest.

Blu


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Originally Posted by BluWave
However, the end result years later might just be the same. Sometimes we have to let go of control and let things unfold naturally. I know I do.

Maybe it's natural for you to be putting so much energy and effort? I'm not sure but I wonder which is true, or both, or neither?

I'm glad that spark pops up and brings you close. I imagine that feels good when it comes. I know what it feels like when you flip back and get mean. It's basically showing all your pain that you still have. The basic things are hard to communicate I think. Saying "I'm mad", knowing exactly why, and being able to articulate it is a lot harder than it sounds like for most people. I think we choose the smooth path, and then choose it again, and again in all these small areas, thinking that it's ok just this time. Then all the sudden we've been living our life the easy way and are surprised that there is no reward. It makes me think of balancing of instinct with our intellect, which is the best part of being human.

Enough of my philosophy, good one you for putting so much work in your girl's future. My W was a big softball player too, I think I told you that. They traveled the country, went to lessons sometimes twice a week, had batting and pitching cages at home, drilled at home. It's no easy task you are undertaking but I think you're doing an awesome thing for her. Not everyone has parents like that. I wish my parents could have helped me more like that, but they just didn't know or didn't care enough to do that. You guys are going to have stories to tell about all your adventures for a long time.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hi Ovr! You are such a valuable member of this community. I appreciate the advice you give to others. I am glad you post to me as well. I can relate to what you say about balancing instinct vs intellect. As hard as this M has been for the last 5-6 years, I do think in a lot of ways it has made me a stronger person. Hopefully a better person too. If I reflect back on my pre-BD self, I was definitely more rigid in the way I thought about things and my Rs. I was also more impatient and controlling in my M. I have let some of that go and am more willing to look at my part in things. I like to think there is a silver lining in overcoming all of this, because if not, I am left wondering, "why didn't I just move on and not let him back in?"

Your W sounds like she was quite the stud. Softball is blowing up and gaining a lot of popularity. My youngest plays competitive soccer and just made a competitive softball team too. Softball has been a much bigger commitment than soccer! So now I will have 2 softball players and 1 that is also balancing soccer. Fortunately, the older made a change to a team with much less travel and a less demanding schedule. .... I also wish that my parents let me play competitive sports, or any sports for that matter, when I was growing up. I see sooo many positive benefits for my kids, it's amazing. They are growing into strong, confident, well rounded individuals. They are also learning that they can work well in a group, enjoy the rewards of benefiting from their hard work, and also handle losing and disappointments. I spend so many hours in the car with my teen and we talk about everything. I feel so lucky to have that R with her. ... I also need to recognize that I cannot project my own feelings of loss in my childhood onto them and push them too hard.

I can talk about my kids sports much more readily than marriage and M saving advice!

Blu


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Originally Posted by BluWave
Curtis, how are things? I still need to read your sitch. I don't visit here enough to keep up with people. I apologize.
Hi Blu,

Thanks for asking. I’m going to post a lengthy update on my thread. Things are going okay, not much has changed for the better, same old limbo.

I did decide to send my W an email after reading a book about Plan A and Plan B for affairs. Some of you may know the book and author. I sent it the day after she once again spent the night with one of the OM. The email was my version of Plan A. It basically stated that I apologized for the part I played in leading up to the affairs. That I did not meet all of her most important emotional needs and that I am willing to avoid the mistakes I made in the past and create a new life for us. I asked and encouraged her to end the affairs so we can begin to move forward together.

I then stated that if chooses to join me, that I have needs to protect my own mental and physical health. Those needs are complete NO CONTACT with the affair partners and absolute HONESTY. I stated end your affairs and you’ll find me more than willing to work on any and all of our issues, including my own. I reminded her that love is a choice, forgiveness is possible, and trust can be rebuilt. I stated that it will take work and starts with a commitment from her. I assured her that I am NOT interested in judging or punishing her.

The email wrapped up with if this is not what you want, know that I will be incredibly hurt, but I’ll understand it’s time to move forward. I feel confident that in the end you will do the right thing. It’s your choice.

I included the quote below at the end:
“Fall in love with your best friend. Someone you can talk to about anything and know they’ll hold no judgement. Someone who knows the darkest parts of you and loves you anyway, that knows all your flaws and loves you not in spite of them but because of them. Not someone that you can’t live without, but someone that you don’t want to live without. Someone that you want to experience all of life’s ups and downs with. Someone who will hold your hand through the worst times of your life. When they see you at your worst, when you’re broken, and they don’t run away but help you put the pieces back together, that’s real love.”

W sent a text the next day saying she read my email, thanked me for it and stated she thinks she needs to read it a few more times. Over the next couple weeks I was the best version of myself the few times we interacted. I don’t know if the email helped or hurt my sitch. I felt it was appropriate so she knew my requirements for reconciliation. She’s on her own journey and at this point I don’t think it has much to do with me.

I also drafted a Plan B email which states why I need to avoid seeing or speaking with her, except for emergencies related to the kids, while the affairs continue. I don’t know that I will ever send it. I am becoming more ambivalent about the thought of R with her. The betrayal, lies, lack of remorse, loss of respect and love seem too daunting to overcome.

I hope you have time to read my entire sitch at some point.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Curt,

It's a lot to unpack in your post. I will have to do it later. I will say your are persistent. But IMO you have an attachment disorder. We told about Rville and you went. Now you are writing letters and not giving her space, the one thing she has requested. I really think you are coming off as selfish, and it's making you unattractive. Maybe your WW come back off the letter, but I think it's a low probability. And you wrote the letters never intending to send her the plan B letter. Why?

Joejoe

More later.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

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Originally Posted by BluWave

My M is in an interesting place. Things are okay on a day to day basis. We have moments were we tolerate each other and are annoyed by the same old things. Then we have these bursts of closeness. A spark is still in there. It is hard to access that on any continual basis. I suspect that is mostly my fault. Sandi talks a lot about having to have respect for attraction to be genuine. I completely agree. I have to train myself to respect him. By that I mean letting go of grudges and accepting his actions and who he really is. Sometimes I pick at things or hold on to hard feelings. I know it is not always fair. I can feel it. I think we are also not good at communicating. We get annoyed and bicker and then we wait for it to pass. I have to change that. I am trying to think of new ways I can communicate outside of the moment in a more calm and respectful way. Sometimes the most basic things feel the hardest.

Blu


Hello Blu. It's been a while since I've posted - I've just updated my thread - but this from what you shared a couple of posts back really stuck out for me. I feel precisely the same way these days. I don't feel as hurt or panicked or frightened or desperate or abused as I did and a lot of the behaviours that were unacceptable to me have changed, and are slowly being replaced with different behaviours. There's sometimes a slide into old patterns repeating, and that does scare me, but generally things day to day are okay. But only okay. I struggle to feel respect. I can accept who he is but I do not really respect that person. We both get annoyed and we do bicker now and again - or we avoid each other for the sake of peace. There's small glimmers of truth-telling which sparks closeness and intimacy, but they are rare and I don't know how to make them happen or even facilitate good conditions for them to occur naturally, if that makes sense. When I put myself in my husband's shoes and imagine what it feels like to live with a wife who is clearly ambivalent about him and struggling to feel love and respect, I can see how difficult it would be for him to feel vulnerable enough to look at his own dark side, show affection and love, and give some radical honesty and collaboration - these are the things I want. I can see I am not very good at doing my bit in making them happen. I know my ambivalence is in part a protective mechanism, which is understandable, and in part it's rational - there are big parts of me that look at my husband and just plain don't like or love what I see. I struggle with that. I struggle with committing to either repair or divorce. If you have any advice or suggestions for me, I'd be willing to take them. I know it's very very early days for me.

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