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Wow, thanks for linking that gem Blu!


I was really drawn to this:
Quote

the ways of thinking can either make or break the outcome of the R.


Between W and I, I would like to believe we are on the upward swing towards recon. Trust and forgiveness seem to be two areas I need to put more thought into because with trust, I don't trust she has told me all of the truth about the past, but I do trust she wont cheat on me going forward. With forgiveness, I think my heart is there but my mind isn't, if that makes sense. Do I need to know specific acts to forgive each thing individually or do I forgive her behavior from the past to move on... so this is fresh with me.

I hope to gain the wisdom that you have. Thoughts usually turn into words and actions fueled by feelings. I hope to gain better insight into the ways of thinking where thoughts don't always need to reveal themselves or manifest into something damaging. With the ways of thinking I think about trying to understand the other person first before passing judgement or being quick to give our piece of mind.

I hope your posting here become less of a trigger as time goes on as we can always benefit from your perspective and wisdom.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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BluWave Offline OP
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Adam, sorry I didn't reply sooner! Thank you for the vote of confidence! I would like to read your sitch. It is always easier to see things more clearly as an outsider than it is in our own sitches. For me this has been a very slllooooowwww process and I have had to make all the mistakes several times before getting my head screwed on straight. There is a lot to be learned when we keep picking ourselves up, dusting off the knees and trying again. I have done that 100 times.

I just came back from a trip and am embarking on another one soon. I love exploring new places! I will continue to check the boards even if my replies are sparse. It has been a busy summer and I have lost some sleep, although not over my M, but over different things. My biggest stressor recently has been over my middle D and her travel sport, finding a more competitive team, thinking about if she will play in college and how to prepare for that, etc. And it's becoming more timely and costly as she moves up in it! I love watching her play more than anything, but it also takes over my life a bit, and I have trouble striking a balance.

I wanted to update today to say that I am so proud of my H! I think I mentioned before but there was something in particular that was driving me nuts about him and causing some issues -- partly always there, but over the years became more of an issue as time went on. The reason is was so hard is because part of his MNG syndrome is what contributed to his lack of progress and ambitions. Well, I am excited to say, he handled it and he handled it like a boss! In fact he has done a 180 in this area and I am really looking forward to seeing where this change takes him and takes us!

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Hey Blu!

I've been meaning to post on your thread. I really liked your 6/17 update. I run some of those words through my head a lot. Attitude, thoughts, actions, emotions....I repeat that to myself. I know how to be happy.

Awesome for your daughter! My W got a scholarship to a big school for softball. She played year round for over 10 years and traveled a lot. It is a huge commitment and stressful for everyone involved! My W and her parents have so many fun stories from their trips, or pulling pranks, or messing around in between games - you can make these events awesome or you can focus on the parts that aren't fun. It sounds like you are wanting it to be great, so you are making it great. Good for you! With your attitude and positive mindset I can only imagine the places your girls will go!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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One step after the other Blu. There you both go. Great!

Time, patience, one road.

(((Blu)))


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
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Hey Blu,

I started reading your thread as far back as it goes, and so much of the NGS stuff you mention about your H reminds me of mine. I spent so long begging him to tell me what he wanted and how he felt in our M. I never got much from him, and then when he BD’d me it was largely because he wanted to be free to be himself, I was controlling and never let him have a say, etc.
Anyway, I can across a few mentions in your thread whee you say that you didn’t really start truly BD’ing until the end. I’ve been trying to BD since I discovered it, but I’ve had a lot of slip ups and poor reactions when I get impatient and triggered. Now I’m trying to really and truly stick to it, so I can get strong and detach myself emotionally.
I know it’s kind of a silly question, but I wanted to ask what did it really look like when you truly started to DB? What were you doh g that you hadn’t done before? Where on the spectrum of cordial/distant did you tend to fall in your interactions with your H?
I know everyone and every sitch is different, but I also feel like I could use some specific guidelines to model by DB after, so that I can be consistent and be sure that I’m in fact walking the walk. It’s worth a try!

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(((Hope))) Hugs. I’m out of the country on vacay and don’t have my laptop, but have been loosely checking here from my phone. So excuse the typos, as it’s hard to proof read.

Yes, my H has the MNG syndrome and I still see it rear it’s ugly head. Just today, we were out with the family waiting for a huge pride parade — it was a hot day, a long wait and we were mostly standing in front — and he let a couple with a child move in front of us. The kid was the same age as our youngest. WTF. It doesn’t even occur to him that while he is being so polite to strangers, he is letting them in front of his own family. It just boggles my mind at times. And then I’m triggered. My kid was stretching to see around them and I had to talk some c-ap at him, which def suxked some fun out of the event. So while he has made changes, he will never fully change.

I digress. Sorry. The NG stuff was particularly hard to deal with during the separation. I had to see him often because the kids were younger and the days I had to work he would need to come over and get them ready for school. He would always be on time, make me coffee, clean up, so helpful and usually quite cordial. Yet he was still running off to OW! He still had an A and broke up his M and family! I was so hurt and angry and here he was being so nice to my face. It was truly a mind F!

So the mistake I made was roping myself into everything he did and didn’t do rather than letting him be. I was wearing my heart on my sleeve and acting on emotions. I would read here and try and follow the rules but it was hard and I felt fake — like I was being too nice and letting him “get away with it.” Cycle that with R talks, getting upset and lashing out, and trying to force him to admit he knew it was a mistake. I didn’t get very far with either of these so I would go back to ignoring and stonewalling him, which felt the easiest. It also got the most reaction.

It wasn’t until around 8 months that I gave up. I just stopped all of it and started acting as if. I didn’t give up hope, but I let go of the rope. It’s hard to explain the shift, but I started to just accept that we were not together and lived my life accordingly. I didn’t show him that I was hurt, desperate or angry. I got tired of fighting. So for me in my sitch this was a huge 180.

I don’t recall that you have been struggling with that as much. I think you have done a pretty good job of following the rules. So what does your 180 look like? Could it be that you haven’t accepted he is gone? I know how hard that is and I struggled with it too. The weird thing is, the sooner you accept it, the more likely he is to change his mind. There is also a strong chance he never will :-(

I also recall you saying you might have pushed him to file. That gave me pause. I’m not sure you can push him to do something he wouldn’t have done anyways. I have read that other places on the site but I don’t entirely agree. They may move things along more quickly, but I don’t think it changes the outcome. In fact, in my case it had the opposite effect. After several weeks or months of following the rules, I wrote my H an email and said that I didn’t want to live in limbo, it wasn’t fair to confuse the kids, and that if he was planning on filing for D, then let’s get going so I can move on with my life. That started his quick turnaround. He may or may not have done that without my email tho — he was on his own downward spiral.

Hang in there Hope. I know how incredibly difficult and emotional this is. It’s terrifying. Try not to be so hard on yourself. You can only do so much, and right now, being a good mom and self care matters sooooo much more than what he will do. I’ll read your updates soon and think on this further. Take good care. And please, please trust me on this — if your H doesn’t want you and a beautiful life with you, you really don’t want him anyways. You dont! You want a man that wants you. Yes, it’s that simple. This is HIS loss!!! My H today would tell you the exact same thing.

Hugs!
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Thank you for your reply, Blu!!
It’s so interesting to read your takes, and where you are now

.
Originally Posted by BluWave
Yes, my H has the MNG syndrome and I still see it rear it’s ugly head. Just today, we were out with the family waiting for a huge pride parade — it was a hot day, a long wait and we were mostly standing in front — and he let a couple with a child move in front of us. The kid was the same age as our youngest. WTF. It doesn’t even occur to him that while he is being so polite to strangers, he is letting them in front of his own family. It just boggles my mind at times. And then I’m triggered. My kid was stretching to see around them and I had to talk some c-ap at him, which def suxked some fun out of the event. So while he has made changes, he will never fully change.


THIS. This is my H to a T. One of the frequent fights we had was about him going out of his way to be so nice to others that we would screw me/our family over. It made me SO MAD. It always felt like a betrayal to me, like I couldn’t count on him. It’s so interesting to hear that your H still does it (though not shocking, I suppose) and that it still triggered you. Also not shocking, ha! It also made me wonder, IF my H was to decide to come back, and that scenario played out, what would it look like? The only thing I can imagine is me getting triggered and getting mad, and him getting super defensive, and then me being panicked he would leave again...yikes. I know, I know.

Originally Posted by BluWave
The NG stuff was particularly hard to deal with during the separation. I had to see him often because the kids were younger and the days I had to work he would need to come over and get them ready for school. He would always be on time, make me coffee, clean up, so helpful and usually quite cordial. Yet he was still running off to OW! He still had an A and broke up his M and family! I was so hurt and angry and here he was being so nice to my face. It was truly a mind F!

So the mistake I made was roping myself into everything he did and didn’t do rather than letting him be. I was wearing my heart on my sleeve and acting on emotions. I would read here and try and follow the rules but it was hard and I felt fake — like I was being too nice and letting him “get away with it.” Cycle that with R talks, getting upset and lashing out, and trying to force him to admit he knew it was a mistake. I didn’t get very far with either of these so I would go back to ignoring and stonewalling him, which felt the easiest.



ALSO. THIS. This could be my sitch you are describing. For a long time my H was making breakfast and bringing me coffee and doing things around the house every Saturday. At the time I thought it meant something about the way he felt about me/the sitch. Looking back at all that knowing now that he was dating someone else is just...well, you know. Interestingly I hadn’t connected all that with MNG stuff before you said that. WOW. That makes it clear just how meaningless it all was. A mind F doesn’t even begin to describe it. And I too have cycled through all those feelings and reactions and lashing out and trying to be kind and settling on cold because it’s easiest.
And that very well may be where the similarities in our situations end. Sigh. I applaud you though. It’s so hard to understand the struggle of piecing from where we stand as LBS. We look at you all and think “I’d do anything to be there! How hard can it be?!” But I’m starting to get it.

I appreciate your thoughts on whether I may have pushed my H to file. I’ve been struggling with obsessive thoughts about it for the last few days. When I did it, I meant it, like you said; if that’s what he was going to do regardless, then he needed to just do it because I was done with limbo. So perhaps that is it, plain and simple. He always intended it, and strung me along for a year for who knows what reason. For some reason, it’s easier to swallow if I can believe that I didn’t push something that wasn’t inevitable.

Thank you, as always, for your reply, kind words and no nonsense advice. It really, really does help me. Enjoy your vacation!

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Blu,

I just want to say that I love your posts. You have the most amazing replies to other people and are always compassionately truthful. You lift other people up and help give them back their dignity and self esteem.

I also really appreciate your honesty on your own situation. I think many people just want their spouse to come back and don't think about how much work would still be left to do. You've made me realize that both D and reconciliation are painful paths to walk down.

You've provided so much insight on WHs. My H is a MNG too, and they sound so similar. I'm just amazed though how willing they are to throw away their spotless reputation. I thought my H cared about his reputation more than anything. Did your H realize during his affair what other people thought of it, or was he in denial that anyone could blame him, or was he just too addicted to the affair to care? Every single mutual friend is disgusted with H, and I can't understand how he can just drop his entire friend circle. I thought he cared about those people.



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Hope, I have some time to get caught up and will read your updates soon. I have been thinking about you.

Sunset, Thank you for your kind words. I think when I was on my vacay, I started to read your sitch and couldn't keep reading. You have a toddler and newborn, correct? After several posts, my heart literally ached for you, and I had to put the screen down because it was too much! Unbelievable what someone can do to a young family and a parent caring for their own babies. As much as I have tried to understand the actions of these spouses over the years, it still blows my mind, and the younger the children are in the sitch, the more egregious the assault seems IMO.

Re your question as to how my H felt about his reputation -- yes he cared what people thought about him and it haunted him. We had several friends and family that were disgusted by what he was doing. I mean, he not only left his family for OW at a vulnerable time, but she and her H were our mutual friends at the time. It was a mess all around. And my H prided himself on being the nice guy -- he was that man that would help out anyone -- family, friends, neighbors -- and he is mr dad and with our kids when not at work. He was proud of his identity and so it killed him that he had become this adulterous selfish jerk! I could see the struggle daily in his face.

Here is the strange part of that -- him having this identity crisis, did not lead to him turning around and making positive changes. Other people, including his parents, even tried to intervene. It actually made him feel worse about himself and turn to the one person that was there for him and boosting his ego, which was OW. Then he felt even more like a dirtbag and round and round he went. He would even try and tell me how stuck he felt, and how he knew it was wrong, but he was so low in his life he had sort of given up hope on things ever being better. Then there were other times he was moody, defensive and even cruel and wanting to blame me -- I think he had to rewrite history to justify his actions at times. He yo-yo'd for sure. It was all very strange indeed! If you asked him today to explain these things, he would struggle to. He might even describe that time as foggy and there are even a few things he doesn't recall saying.

The MNG concept gets used a lot on these boards. It seems as if we all have a MNG WH and most of the male posters claim to be one. It leads me to wonder if being a MNG includes characteristics that we all have, but to varying degrees. Perhaps there are several qualities and each person measures a different amount on them, and so the worse a person ranks, the more toxic the resulting coping mech has been developed. I would argue my H ranked high in all categories. I also think his NG personality is what makes him quite likable. The issue arises when an unhealthy behavior results from the personality. I think we often confuse the personality quality (which is good) with the poor adaptive behaviors (which are bad).

I will read your sitch tomorrow as well.

Best,
Blu


Last edited by BluWave; 09/02/19 03:51 AM.

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Hi everyone,

Things are going fairly well. I read someone post that it took a friend 5 years to recover a M after a bad split/affair, which I think makes sense for my sitch. We are at the 4.5 year mark. There seems to be a natural connectedness and ease that is happening. I think a part of the progress has also been due to not actively working on things and just letting it be at times. When conflict arises, we just say it outright and then let it go more easily. Also, we are both getting older, and can feel that progression in the relationship. I think as we solidly enter "middle age" we naturally stop sweating the small stuff as much. I can't be bothered to worry about what people think of me, or the past, because there is just too much going on right now. I feel that shift happening. I am letting it happen and not resisting it.

I don't read much about relationships or self help books anymore, but I used to when things were harder. I recall reading about the evolution of marital relationships and there are several stages that happen over time. A lot of people (maybe half of Ms) split and then D during the difficult stages. If you can make it through those harder stages of doubt and separation, and then work through them, you can enter those final stages. The final stages are supposed to be the deepest and most meaningful relationships one can achieve in a romantic R. Well, if all that hype is true, then I think I have something to look forward to moving into the future. I feel proud of that.

Oh, ha. And I just thought of a story as I was typing this and it's kinda corny yet ironic! So six years ago we landscaped the front of our home. It was a pretty big project that required removing hedges and a lot of dirt. H is a handyman with gardening/cars/fix-its/house projects, and so he did the labor. He pulled everything out himself and then I selected the new plants, tree and tanbark, and decided where to place it. A dynamic that still exists in our R now and one we both appreciate about one another. Anyhow, at that time, the EA was just getting started with OW and of course I didn't know. She came by the house a few times while he was in front working and I recall her pulling up (our kids had carpools and playdates) and being quite flirty with him and he would ignore her. I found her annoying but also knew her well and this is how she operated in general (flirty and attention seeking from men). We were friends and all simply accepted her bad behavior. He didn't appear to notice her antics. He kept gardening. Here is the funny thing; H wanted to put weed block down under the tan bark and I would tell him not to bother. Our front yard had no protection.

I don't even remember why I told him back then not to use the weed block (maybe he had already laid it all out when he brought it up and I didn't want him uprooting everything?) but I was firm that he shouldn't. So the garden was finished and it bloomed and looked okay for only 1-2 years. Then it was over taken by weeds and because I don't have a green thumb, the plants did not grow proportionally and it didn't look right when matured. Also, as our M almost fell apart, the garden did not get any TLC, and was not a priority. It was a complete mess. So this summer, H started removing the old plants. A couple weeks ago he told me to figure things out so he could do the work and that this time he was laying the weed block down. In the last few years I have made some solid new friendships -- love these ladies for life -- and one of them happens to know a lot about gardening. She picked out the plants for us and I selected the tanbark. So he finished this week and it looks amazing. It is also well protected. I walked up to my house this morning and stopped to admire it. It is still a young garden, but I can imagine that this time around, everything is going to bloom nicely and last. Plus, there is no pesky OW coming around trying to get in the way! Ha!

Blu

Last edited by BluWave; 09/19/19 04:52 PM.

“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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