I am nervous to post this. I have been lurking since August 2017. After being out of the country for 3 months, found out that H had a consult with divorce atty. Asked him about it and he did the typical ILYB and a whole list of my faults. I listened, didn't argue (much!) and said, "nope. we are not doing this. let's slow down and take some time". He said he was surprised that I wasn't relieved. (M wasn't super when I left, but we communicated our love for each other while i was away, spoke every day).
Lots of tears (on both our parts). I set up an appointment with a counselor - who send me for EMDR for previous trauma (best experience of my life!). While I was going to my IC, H went a couple of times to IC of his own (the one I had set up). H said that he never knew what to talk about.
Just before Christmas 2017, he said he was going to file after the 1st of the year. I cried but didn't argue. Stated that I thought it was a bad idea. He never filed but moved out of the MBR. Continued on like that until Feb 2019. Moved into furnished apartment (short-term lease). Said he couldn't make a D or R decision while living with me.
Comes over every day or at least every other day. We have a ranch, he feeds the cows etc with me. S17 runs hot/cold toward him and when he's cold, H attempts to take it out on me. I have since learned how to navigate that, thanks to all of you on this forum with the validation statements.
I GAL, I have detached, but when I'm around I am friendly and a lot of fun. He enjoys my company and says he has loved me his whole life and always will. Still wants to go out with me, dancing and to friends houses. He has told NO ONE. Not even best friend. He acts like we are still the 'perfect couple'. He finds me very attractive but tries to make himself not have S with me. (says he doesn't want to use me). We have had mostly the same amount of S since the BD, but I have not initiated any of it. He calls/texts every day to talk, about everything but the R. I no longer initiate R conversations, but have told him that I'm here if he wants to talk. -I did add that I would no longer listen to a list of my faults/violations unless he was willing to work through them together. I listened for the first 6 months.
His drinking is off the charts. Now keeps a cooler full of beer when he drives. He is so sad and confused. I am watching the love of my life disappear before me. I have confided in 3 friends that support my decision to DB, but our older children and their wives are now very upset because they now know he moved out.
Thank you for this community. I've never seen him like this. I try to stay in my own lane (for my own sanity). I am praying that this forum will be a good place for me to find comfort.
W45 (me), H41 M22 S27 S21 S17 (still at home with me)
BD August 2017 Moved out Feb 2019
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hello 97, you posted the following in another thread, I am copying it here to respond as we like for people to keep discussions about their own situations to a single thread to make it easier for us to track things:
Originally Posted by 97Hope
I'm new so I apologize if I missed it somewhere, but my H likes to move back into the bedroom when the grown kids come and visit. Does anyone have any advice about that? I wondered if I should have told him to stay in the guest room, but like you, didn't want that to be the hill I die on. Also, we have a trip planned to visit family, and he wants to share a room. I don't get any ideas that this is headed anywhere, we have traveled a lot since BD, and always share a bed, and sometimes he talks about R in positive ways, but I play it cool and don't let it give me hope. I stay on my island. Reality. It's safer here. TIA!
Is he doing that to "save face" with the kids? Do they not know about your sitch yet? In general the attitude is "I am staying in the MBR and bed, you sleep where you want." So if he wants to come and go then I wouldn't worry about it for now, but don't let him browbeat you into sleeping somewhere else.
Likewise I don't see the harm in sharing a bed for the trip.
Now sex is a different matter. Michele says there's no harm as long as you can do it without expectations, but most LBS's do find that it really messes with their head because it's hard not to get your hopes up. Plus a lot of the time you have no idea what the WAS is doing "out there" sexually and you might be opening yourself up to an STD (it's happened).
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He said he was surprised that I wasn't relieved.
My XW said the same thing. She thought I wanted D as much as she did.
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H went a couple of times to IC of his own (the one I had set up). H said that he never knew what to talk about.
I've never heard of IC helping save an M. Most counselors just listen and validate, so if he says he wants a D they're not going to try and talk him out of it.
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I have since learned how to navigate that, thanks to all of you on this forum with the validation statements.
Awesome! It's good to know we're helping people even when they're not actively posting!
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I GAL, I have detached, but when I'm around I am friendly and a lot of fun. He enjoys my company and says he has loved me his whole life and always will. Still wants to go out with me, dancing and to friends houses. He has told NO ONE. Not even best friend. He acts like we are still the 'perfect couple'. He finds me very attractive but tries to make himself not have S with me. (says he doesn't want to use me). We have had mostly the same amount of S since the BD, but I have not initiated any of it. He calls/texts every day to talk, about everything but the R. I no longer initiate R conversations, but have told him that I'm here if he wants to talk. -I did add that I would no longer listen to a list of my faults/violations unless he was willing to work through them together. I listened for the first 6 months.
Good! That all sounds perfect. You're showing him what he'll be missing, you're listening and validating, but you're also setting boundaries about not allowing him to blame you. Well done.
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His drinking is off the charts. Now keeps a cooler full of beer when he drives. He is so sad and confused.
Wow that's a red flag. Sounds like he's engaging in risky, dangerous behavior. Is he still seeing the IC?
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Thank you for this community. I've never seen him like this. I try to stay in my own lane (for my own sanity). I am praying that this forum will be a good place for me to find comfort.
Absolutely, you'll find lots of people here who have been through it or are going through it. Just try to remember this is more about him than it is you. He's on a roller coaster, so you need to be the rock now more than ever.
Welcome aboard Hope. I'm glad you found the courage to post. It's such a shame to see so many long term marriages going through this type of situation. I have a friend who was M almost 40 yrs and one night she got the bomb (as we call it) that he wasn't happy, didn't want to try & save it, etc. So, it's happening to many couples who have been together for many years. You'd think someone would find the perfect solution, right? Problem is......the spouse who wants out has his own free will, and usually some stubborn pride on the side. Anyway, you've come to the right place, and we'll try to help as much as we can.
Can you tell us more about your H? Has his work history been good, or has he jumped from job to job? How does he handle debt? Can you think of something that happened that could have made him turn to self medicate (drinking)? If he doesn't want anyone to know he's left the marital home, maybe he's covering something he thinks would hurt you badly. Like, for example.......a large gambling debt. You know how our men want to protect us about things of that nature. They think they'll find a way to take care of it, without the W getting upset. Any changing around at work? Something effecting his retirement? You said you own a ranch, so does he do any work other than the ranch? Do you know if he went to see a doctor while you were gone? Has he struggled with ED issues?
I'm trying to think of what would make a H suddenly want to move out of his home. He still has emotional attachment to his W, and he wants people to see them as a perfect couple. Something is going on that he's not talking about, and it's driving him to drink more than usual. The things that come to my mind are:
1. His position at work has been replaced by a younger guy; there's been lay-offs; cut in pay; forced to retire early, etc. 2. He has acquired a huge debt and has no idea how to pay it off. 3. He has gotten himself in some serious legal trouble. 4. He has received bad news from the doctor. 5, There is another woman.
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I set up an appointment with a counselor - who send me for EMDR for previous trauma (best experience of my life!).
I had to look this up, b/c I had no idea what it was. Now, I'm intrigued and will look at more after I send this post.
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H said that he never knew what to talk about.
Does he have a hard time talking about his emotions? Has he ever kept things from you, b/c he didn't want you to worry?
In your opinion, does he seem angry, or does he appear to be worried? What were your arguments typically about?
The more you can share with us, the better we can see your situation. I hope you will continue to post.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hello Stander. Thank you so much for linking my post and for taking the time to read my story!
I do believe he is saving face. The kids only recently know about the sitch. I have been careful not to involve them because I knew he didn't want me to, but they have raised a lot of questions recently and without going into details, I have let them in.
I don't mean to be weird, but I can definitely have S without expectations. If/when it becomes emotionally bad for me, I can def say no.
For sure he is engaging in risky, dangerous behavior. He is not seeing the IC. He stays in his apt when he isn't here and doesn't do much socially unless it's with me. The red flags began years ago, now I just see him free falling.
[quote]He's on a roller coaster, so you need to be the rock now more than ever.
AMEN!
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Hi Sandi. Thank you so much! His work history is incredible. If anything he doesn't ever rest!
Absolutely no debt. We have a ranch in addition to his full time job. We usually do all the ranching together with S17.
The big things that I think led him to self medicate are - my sister 50, passed away when we moved here 3 years ago, I already suffered from depression but she died within 6 months of her diagnosis (colon cancer). She and H were also very close. I was her caretaker, and when I came home after staying with her for her final 6 weeks, I was a mess. I went to school, came home and was not myself for about a year and 1/2. Which is the time-line he said that he gave up on me and my depression because he could not take my "cycles' anymore. He said that something in him just broke.
He had affairs back in 2010 and we did a recovery program, but I never really trusted him for the longest time. I knew he wasn't cheating, but I didn't like the way he acted around female co-workers, and some of them sent text messages to him that were inappropriate.
In addition, his uncle (who was his father figure) passed away the summer of the same year as my sister. H's dad left family when H was 7 y/o with 2 young brothers. Wasn't in his life until we got married. When I pointed out that H basically lost his 'dad', H seemed surprised (he didn't put 2+2 together)and that seemed to lead to some understanding. Same summer, H was deployed for 4 months and he lost a couple of people. Not friends, but I know that had to weigh heavily on him.
Post-deployment, our son was married and we weren't perfect, but things seemed to be shaping up. I was still reacting to texts between him and females, and blew up and said "i can't do this anymore, and I can't wait to leave!' (before I left the country for 3 months) so I can almost see where he didn't know who was coming home.
Ironically, I had a life-changing experience while gone and realized that I needed a lot of help to grieve and to heal. H has commented that my changes have come too late, although he is 'very happy for you, but jealous'. If I try and tell him how I was healed, he resents it, so I have left that alone.
There is no OW at this time, but it is a likely possibility if things don't turn around. He may have an Emotional OW, but since I don't know about it, I'm treating this sitch with the information I have.
I have gained a lot of understanding from another MLC site that other members have talked about here. I think that is the likely thing going on, but I really do try and not camp out in understanding why he's doing what he is doing, rather, focus on how I can be a good friend with healthy boundaries and a good role model for the kids.
I feel like I'm not alone. Thank you.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Just venting here. Two instances that H have done that seem similar and wondering who else deals with this and how. 1st time I was helping a friend at their restaurant where my S17 is working and my phone rang, He answered the phone said "It was H. He asked about rain and sounded pissy". I didn't call him back, was busy. Went home at 9:30 took shower, as I'm getting out I heard the phone again. H: what did you tell S21? W: I confirmed that you moved out. H: blah blah he just crucified me W: blah blah I'm sorry he was harsh with you, it sounds like he was upset that you haven't talked to him H: I talk to him! W: Ok. I don't want to argue. end of convo.
I have decided that based on that and several similar convos that I will just use the bag of tricks that I found here on another thread and not discuss my convos with our grown kids.
Second ugly episode. H comes over frequently to help at the ranch. I asked him if all I needed to do for the following day was feed the horses and he replied "don't worry about it. I'll probably come over". This discussion took place as he was leaving for the night.
Next day, S17 and I went to lunch, ran errands and grocery shopped. Was fun. Returned home, H was there finishing up feeding. He was in a mood, so I smiled, said hello and went into the house. H and S stayed on front porch talking. I was in MBR sitting on bed and H knocked on door. Poked his head in and I said "I will be out in one minute". He said "it's ok, i'm taking off"
I receive a text 5 minutes later "please call me when you have a minute". I called him back and he was furious.
H: did you NOT remember me saying that I wanted to spend time with S17 when I came over today? W: No. The convo as I remember it was "..." H: I specifically said that I wanted to see him! W: Did you let him know that? H: Yes. W: I can not be responsible for you and him getting together. H: I am not asking you to! W: In the future, work out time together with him. I promise not to interfere. H: blah blah angry i told you this blah blah W: Ok thank you. I have to go
These are typical convos in our R, however, only recently in the past year have I been able to (mostly) not get ticked off with him and yell back. And I am the queen of being ugly.
For a while I have known that he views me as the enemy, but I don't want a pattern to emerge where something he doesn't like goes down like this each time. Part of the process? Any tips from you old-timers? I realize this is about control, but my IC advised me not only not to let him have any power over me, but to get my own power back, i.e. letting him come and go to my own emotional detriment.
For sure, he is VERY controlling. Money, time, everything. I am only now willing/able to stand up for myself. But I know me...I don't trust that I can always be calm and rational when being blamed for something I didn't do, or treated like/spoken to like trash because his world isn't awesome. I was tempted to say "have another drink" which would be the lowest blow to him and not how I want to live anymore.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
This dynamic is very familiar to me. I've tried various techniques to respond when I am being blamed for something unfairly. I say, 'what do you want to do about that' or 'I can see that really bothers you' or 'I can see you hold me responsible for that' as ways of showing empathy and rejecting responsibility, and they just tend to inflame the situation. The best results I get at the moment are to just end the conversation.
When H brings up the past to blame me for it, I don't point out my changes or his part in where things went wrong. I say 'yes, I think you're right, there are many things I need to change about myself. The one thing I can't change is the past and how that has affected you and our relationship, and I understand you're angry about that,' - that has sometimes calmed the situation but not always.
For a while I have known that he views me as the enemy, but I don't want a pattern to emerge where something he doesn't like goes down like this each time. Part of the process? Any tips from you old-timers?
See below:
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H: what did you tell S21? W: I confirmed that you moved out. H: blah blah he just crucified me W: blah blah I'm sorry he was harsh with you, it sounds like he was upset that you haven't talked to him H: I talk to him! W: Ok. I don't want to argue. end of convo.
Good! You listened and made a validation statement, then when he tried to trigger you, you excused yourself and hung up.
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H: did you NOT remember me saying that I wanted to spend time with S17 when I came over today? W: No. The convo as I remember it was "..." H: I specifically said that I wanted to see him! W: Did you let him know that? H: Yes. W: I can not be responsible for you and him getting together. H: I am not asking you to! W: In the future, work out time together with him. I promise not to interfere. H: blah blah angry i told you this blah blah W: Ok thank you. I have to go
This isn't as good though. This is classic "he said (I told you xyz) she said (no you didn't)" and just does nothing but build resentment. You might have said "I'm sorry, I don't recall you saying that to me, let me know if you would like to spend some time with him this week and I will make sure I don't have plans with him and that he is aware of it." You did a decent job of not escalating though.
Thanks AS. Man this is soooooo hard. I'm having a super sad day. Nothing new/different. Just a big ball of sad.
RE the I told you/you said/you didn't...You nailed it. Our conflicts have always revolved around us bickering about who said what. I've been accused of lying so many times.
I read your story last night and I am glad you shared your journaling. I am going to do more of that. No one understands this like the DB community. I am in a similar sitch as you were, when you saw your W every day for kids. Mine is this ranch. Even though he was supposed to be deployed for 4 months (which I told him when he moved out not to worry about coming out, I could handle it) but he's here a lot and I don't know if it's good/bad/indifferent to the sitch but I know it is really difficult to see him at times. Some days I handle it better than others. He usually only sees me cheerful and normal. Still haven't gotten my GAL sorted out. I need a hobby.
Today felt weird when I saw him. He was nice, asked about my day, checked me out, but he felt more distant than ever before. I can see how the drinking has been affecting him and he's not sleeping. I feel sad for him for the most part. Not sorry for him, he could get help, but just so unbelievably sad that he's choosing all of this and it's wearing him down.
Just a few minutes after he left he called to let me know that i would see a charge out of my account for $15 and told me he could pay me back and did a cute thing we do as an inside joke. I laughed and said I could totally handle $15/month. Then I said he could have stuck around after feeding the cows, but that I didn't want to invite him in every time he was over in order to respect his desire for 'space'. He said he really appreciated it, he had to go in to work and then he was going to his apt watch the show and bed and what his schedule is for tomorrow (including coming out here to work the cows together).
I took a consulting job for the next two weeks. I haven't worked in 10 years. SAHM/went back to school and got my degree. I put him through school, he put me through with the goal of me working only a couple of jobs per year but to be available to travel with him and take care of the grands. I appreciate the he has not even brought up me getting a full time job. I'm surprised, actually. I don't know that I would do the same if I wanted out.
The consulting job took my mind off the sitch for most of the day. I was dealing with issues that required my undivided attention. H asked me all about it and if I was ok, because the job is very sensitive. Met some incredible people and that was nice.
I just feel stuck right now. I feel like a bomb is about to go off right next to my beautiful family. Haven't felt like this in a while. It's something I have been having a hard time shaking today. IDK. Maybe just too much in my feelings.
Also a question for anyone with good advice. As I'm catching up on everyone's stories, is it rude to cut in with comments? For instance, someone was talking about how the W would tell new BFF "ILY" but didn't tell him. I could totally relate because immediately after BD, he stopped saying it and I stopped out of (respect?). But one day we were walking to the barn and he told his dog "ILY". I actually laughed at that and said out loud, "Seriously!?"
Also, I have read some instances where I know what NOT to do. Should I chime in? Just getting a feel for this place.
I'm going to watch a movie and cook myself some dinner. One thing about this S, I haven't had to cook a whole lot! S17 has been working in the evenings at a restaurant and hasn't wanted mom food and H is gone, so I eat watermelon and yogurt. : )
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
