What happened so far as executive summary: - wife told me she does not love me anymore, soon after told me she is in love with much younger guy from India - wife visited guy from India for two weeks, affair is ongoing - have 2 sons, 13 and 17, 17 year old has gender identity issues - was shocked and in the fog for about 2 months, then turned into "super husband" doing everything WW complained about.....did not do a thing except for having a few pleasant Sunday afternoons together
- came across DB and got a lot of excellent advice that overwhelmed me at first....started going dark as best as I can, improving on that on a daily basis - spending more time with my sons, especially S13....S17 retreats into his room and does not want to discuss life issues with me, neither mine nor his - took as much control of finances as I could, opened my own account, salary goes into my account, keeping shared account available and reasonably well funded for WW to use; pulled credit report on myself and no surprises there, still have to pull credit report on WW - saw divorce lawyer for information session only, no papers filed, no further action planned at the moment - stopped all and every pursuit in any form. No longer respond to WW's facebook messages, no longer do her any favors, dialed back household chores to reasonable levels (doing my own laundry, doing dishes once in a while, making sure everyone has enough food, taking kids to their activities, making sure kids have fitting clothes for time of year)
A short summary of what happened the past days - WW retreats noticeably, spends most of her time in the room that has her bed, rarely uses PC to go online and instead relies on phone which I know she does not like - WW no longer wears all that Indian crap like necklaces and bracelets, at least not when I am around - WW cooks more often...although it is somewhat unreliable. When I got home yesterday S13 was mixing waffle batter because he got hungry and we were out of frozen waffles. WW was passed out on her bed - WW swapped beer for hard liquor, drinks about half a bottle of whiskey per day as far as I can tell.....not sure how or if I should address this....have to think about it, but for now I don't take any actions. I have no control over it anyway. - made pasta salad for work pot luck without WW's help, didn't even mention it to her, but she saw the big bowl and commented on it, said she is eager to have some....I made it without onions, she is allergic to onions, but that wasn't the main reason, the green onions overpowered everything else the last time I made it - went to mall with S13 yesterday night to buy a big fat buttery salt pretzel and bought myself new cologne, took S13 to game store, but he did not find anything that piked his interest - will watch soccer game today on big TV in living room because I want to - will go to gym today with S13 - will go out today for part of grocery shopping and buying myself new button shirt(s) and underwear (sorry if that is TMI) - planning on going to a concert of a coworker's band in the 16th - looking into a weekend trip to Niagara Falls, never been there, should not be too expensive to travel there, but I will wait until later in the year when weather is nicer
What will help as well is that rumors are getting louder that after almost 12 years I get a promotion at work, going into management. That will give me plenty of reason to work on myself, on my self esteem, on my posture, on how I communicate, and think about other stuff.
Hi Dave, I was late arriving on your first thread, and IDK that you saw my post. I'm going to jump right in by telling you to let go of that list of things where your WW said you messed up. Here's what a WW will do. She wants the H to believe everything is his fault, so she puts his mistakes/short comings in the spotlight. She wants to justify her waywardness by blaming her H for the fact that she is breaking up the family to have an A with some guy. She will feed you a menu of bs. That's why you should not believe that she is doing all this stuff b/c you have been such a horrible H. She wants you to take the fall for her affair.
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Originally Posted by LH19 David no one is telling you to be mean and unsupportive. Don't confuse that with not being a doormat and weak.
I think I understand...but not really. I know what the words mean, but I don't know what to do in practice.
How about starting here: stop feeling that you have to accommodate her. Stop trying to please her by becoming this idea of a Super Husband she's painted. Get rid of that laundry list of complaints, b/c you could do every one perfectly and it would not make one ounce of difference. Why? B/c that was in the past, and now this isn't about all her complaints..........it's about your W being wayward. Her disrespect for you as a man and as her H is the root of her waywardness. Therefore, everything you do needs to draw respect. She's not going to feel respect, if you are crying like a baby and begging her not to leave you. She's not going to respect you if allow her to walk all over you, bully you, shout obscenities, put you down in front of your sons, etc. See what I mean? You've got to find your backbone and don't be afraid to stand tall and learn to pucker your lips and make this sound, "No". wink
In order for her to face reality, you must stop accommodating her. She doesn't appreciate your accommodation, she EXPECTS it. It's time for her to put on her big girl panties.
Btw, if you feel tears coming on, run for the bathroom and bury your face in a stack of towels, or leave the house until you've calmed down.
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That is where my concern is....she told me all the things I messed up and didn't do. Now I'm doing it and it's not good? It leaves me confused. If I do these things I come across as doormat, when I don't do them I wonder if she thinks she was right all along and that I will never change
No, b/c you are like the monkey dancing to her music box. That's no good. You are under the impression if you "please" her and get "good enough" it will change her mind and she won't leave you. That's not how it works. The things she listed has nothing to do with respecting you as a man. She's not going to tell you what you need to do for her to respect you........but I will. wink
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I want nothing more than to find a way to a much better marriage with my wife. The difficult part is that she does not seem interested in that...although I really do not know what she is thinking
I understand, but she's not in that place where she wants a better M with you. She's not even thinking about you. She is thinking of being free. She is in a fantasy that she's created. The only thing that will bring her out of it is.......loss & reality.
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I often wonder if I am really that unloveable, that horrible of a person that I got what I deserved. For months I am seeking advice and get it, but I feel no wiser.
It's b/c you believed her bs. Stop it. You became so dependent on her b/c you have no social life apart from your family. You have no local friends. Her and the kids are all you've had, and that adds to your fear of being without her. Some of these LBS's can tell you how shy people can meet new people and make friends. Okay? One thing for sure, they aren't going to come up to your front door and ask if they can be your friend. So, go where there are people and mingle.
Before you can save anything, and before you can have a great MR, you must save yourself. You need to read books that will help you build self esteem. You need to nourish your spirit. Take good care of your physical health. That's why we tell you to look out for yourself. You have to focus on doing what's best for you and the kids.......and leave her to deal with her waywardness. Stop accommodating her. She is not a royal princess, even if she has a sense of entitlement.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Dave, hope you're making the best out of your weekend. Your W is spending all the time at home and drinking. I saw you thought about addressing it. It's probably best for you at the moment to just get out of the house and have some fun. Once you get a little stronger you may be able to stand up better but it's even more important IMO to eliminate mistakes for now. And by mistakes that would mean breaking one of Sandi's rules. So check those out and make sure you stick to it.
Also, congrats on the promotion! That is awesome. Don't go waving it in your W's face. Let her see you enjoying life and making your life awesome. This is the picnic analogy in Cadet's links.
Originally Posted by DaveK
buying myself new button shirt(s) and underwear (sorry if that is TMI)
Hell no, that's not TMI! That's too little information. Tell me all about these silky skivvies you're getting!
OK, that's a joke.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Listen to everyone here and really listen to what Sandi is saying.
You've done a good job at taking stock of your sitch and gaining some forward progress.
The advice about GAL, 180, and Detachment never changes. What can make GAL and Detachment hard are the hang ups. One of those you can work on doing a 180 on is acknowledging your self worth.
lol @ the silky skivvies, ovrrnbw!
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Hi Dave, I was late arriving on your first thread, and IDK that you saw my post. I'm going to jump right in by telling you to let go of that list of things where your WW said you messed up. Here's what a WW will do. She wants the H to believe everything is his fault, so she puts his mistakes/short comings in the spotlight. She wants to justify her waywardness by blaming her H for the fact that she is breaking up the family to have an A with some guy. She will feed you a menu of bs. That's why you should not believe that she is doing all this stuff b/c you have been such a horrible H. She wants you to take the fall for her affair.
sandi2....thanks for wanting to help me, thanks for the other posts that I red from you that are excellent guidance, and thanks for telling me that it is not (all) my fault. Could I have done better, yes, but in hindsight I am sure we all could have if we knew back then what we know now. A few things I feel are a necessity for me to continue, mainly making sure my kids have what they need. That includes doing the bulk of grocery shopping. WW takes the kids to the store if they ask for something. S17 loves smoking meat, so WW took him to the store to buy chicken. More so than in months past WW decides to cook something and gets the ingredients, but some culinary projects never mature. She wanted to make pies and since then the pie shells and fillings sit in the fridge. I leave them there until they start to turn into a health hazard. I also keep cooking occasionally because my sons aren't supposed to live off frozen pizza and canned pasta. I make a big pot of soup tomorrow, that typically lasts for a few days. S17 won't eat soup (he hates veggies), but he has his stack of smoked chicken. I think I posted it before...last night when I got home S13 started to mix batter for waffles because WW was passed out in bed and he got hungry. Breaks my heart that his own mom cares so little. His waffles came out great. I started to plan meals that are quick to prepare or can be made a day before and reheated. Working full time does not leave much choice. I take that as learning opportunity, if WW derails indefinitely I am at least able to take care of the boys.
Originally Posted by sandi2
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Originally Posted by LH19 David no one is telling you to be mean and unsupportive. Don't confuse that with not being a doormat and weak.
I think I understand...but not really. I know what the words mean, but I don't know what to do in practice.
How about starting here: stop feeling that you have to accommodate her. Stop trying to please her by becoming this idea of a Super Husband she's painted. Get rid of that laundry list of complaints, b/c you could do every one perfectly and it would not make one ounce of difference. Why? B/c that was in the past, and now this isn't about all her complaints..........it's about your W being wayward. Her disrespect for you as a man and as her H is the root of her waywardness. Therefore, everything you do needs to draw respect. She's not going to feel respect, if you are crying like a baby and begging her not to leave you. She's not going to respect you if allow her to walk all over you, bully you, shout obscenities, put you down in front of your sons, etc. See what I mean? You've got to find your backbone and don't be afraid to stand tall and learn to pucker your lips and make this sound, "No". wink
In order for her to face reality, you must stop accommodating her. She doesn't appreciate your accommodation, she EXPECTS it. It's time for her to put on her big girl panties.
I understand what I need to do better each day. Example: In order to get to the mailbox I have to walk through 'her' room. Before I timed it so that I checked mail or put mail in the box when she was not in the room. Today I had to put something in the mailbox and I just walked in. I didn't say anything now did I check what she was doing. Went straight for the front door, put the envelope in the mailbox and returned. While I was out she darted to the bathroom with her phone. Not too long ago I would have felt bad, but I didn't today. It will take many more bathroom sessions for to realize how pathetic her behavior is. I don't care anymore. I used to announce that I need to get something from the office where she spends some time. Now I walk in, do or get what I want, and leave. I don't acknowledge her presence unless she addresses me. There are no longer (temporary) no go zones in my house. I live here and I go in whatever room I want as I please.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Btw, if you feel tears coming on, run for the bathroom and bury your face in a stack of towels, or leave the house until you've calmed down.
It typically happens when I drive. A song comes on or something pops in my mind and I cry. I no longer do that at home for quite a while, once in a while I do it at work. Those people who need to know do know and I am so happy and delighted that they cut me a lot of slack. I still deliver good work in an at times hectic environment. What really helps a lot is detachment. Out of sight, out of mind almost. I finally get it. Focusing on myself, doing what I want and above all no longer caring how it impacts WW or what she thinks. What really drove it home is what someone (sorry for not citing your name) mentioned early on: she fired you as her husband. When I first read that it really hurt. But it is true. So why would I want to keep working for someone who fired me? Until I am rehired I have no obligations and don't owe WW anything.....and that includes money. I will make good will deposits into the shared account, but it is by far less than what used to be at her disposal. So far she didn't even ask about it nor questioned me cancelling the joint CC.I will wait a bit longer before I run a credit check on her. As far as expenses go, the lawyer told me that I am not responsible for any expenses that were not for the family.
Originally Posted by sandi2
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That is where my concern is....she told me all the things I messed up and didn't do. Now I'm doing it and it's not good? It leaves me confused. If I do these things I come across as doormat, when I don't do them I wonder if she thinks she was right all along and that I will never change
No, b/c you are like the monkey dancing to her music box. That's no good. You are under the impression if you "please" her and get "good enough" it will change her mind and she won't leave you. That's not how it works. The things she listed has nothing to do with respecting you as a man. She's not going to tell you what you need to do for her to respect you........but I will. wink
I understand that know. I don't regret it, because it was truly a good learning experience for me. The past few months were full of firsts for me and I am thankful for it. There were many hard lessons, but they prepare me for whatever will come. Months ago I was freaking out about the possibility of being a single dad....today I feel like "whatever...bring it on!" Do I want that? No. But if that comes up I am fine with it. My sons start to see that they can rely on me more than on WW. Especially S13 is bringing me a lot of joy. He wants to spend time with and tells me when he had enough of me. Last Thursday we spent time together and then I had to go to my therapist appointment. I told him I will be back at 9:30. When I came back home he immediately popped up, almost as if he was waiting for me. I now appreciate all these things. Yesterday we went to the mall, I bought him a pretzel, and when we got back home we played hangman for over an hour. I never did that with him before. THAT now matters to me a lot. Today I took S13 to the gym with me. WW still keeps talking about doing that with him, but never does.I want to be a great dad and the appreciation is clearly there. Next up is watching YouTube videos on how to bleach and color hair. S13 had blue hair, but it is growing out. Now he wants pink hair. WW promises him for three weekends now to do that for him. I have never done this, but I said that about a lot of other things and now I am doing them. If that does not earn respect then I don't know what will. And yes, PLEASE, tell me. My biggest problem is that all of this is new to me. Such a sitch never crossed my mind ever and now I am in the midst of it. I am learning every day and I am bound to screw up things. It is invaluable that someone tells me that. I probably will get defensive....but bear with me for a few days.Like that "you are fired" comment....I hated it at first, but by now it is among the best things I read here.
Originally Posted by sandi2
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I want nothing more than to find a way to a much better marriage with my wife. The difficult part is that she does not seem interested in that...although I really do not know what she is thinking
I understand, but she's not in that place where she wants a better M with you. She's not even thinking about you. She is thinking of being free. She is in a fantasy that she's created. The only thing that will bring her out of it is.......loss & reality.
I understand that now and I know that this will be a long process. She lives in lalaland and so far it was convenient. Now I understand what is meant with "making things worse".
Originally Posted by sandi2
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I often wonder if I am really that unloveable, that horrible of a person that I got what I deserved. For months I am seeking advice and get it, but I feel no wiser.
It's b/c you believed her bs. Stop it. You became so dependent on her b/c you have no social life apart from your family. You have no local friends. Her and the kids are all you've had, and that adds to your fear of being without her. Some of these LBS's can tell you how shy people can meet new people and make friends. Okay? One thing for sure, they aren't going to come up to your front door and ask if they can be your friend. So, go where there are people and mingle.
Before you can save anything, and before you can have a great MR, you must save yourself. You need to read books that will help you build self esteem. You need to nourish your spirit. Take good care of your physical health. That's why we tell you to look out for yourself. You have to focus on doing what's best for you and the kids.......and leave her to deal with her waywardness. Stop accommodating her. She is not a royal princess, even if she has a sense of entitlement.
Someone along the many excellent posts told me to stop being the victim. It now makes sense...and sorry for taking a long time to get stuff. It starts to get easier. WW leaves no opportunity out to destroy my self esteem. A few months ago I got a really nice big fat heavy crystal award at work for having been member of a team that pulled a product out of the abyss onto a sure path of success. I rarely get awards and to be included and recognized like that meant a lot to to. She pooed all over it claiming that I only got the reward because I love my work more than her or the kids. Back then I told her that she is full of bovine excrement. Since I got the reward I look at it every day. It sits on my shelf at work for the world to see. And rumor has it that I get promoted to team lead (management) and that although there are two colleagues who by far have more seniority. Life starts to get good....my life! And now I dig out more of my old records, turn my stereo on (the one WW wanted me to toss), and a jolly good time doing dishes....they sit on the counter and the sink and the stove for days now. WW didn't do shite. And yes, she will hear it thanks to the kick ass subwoofer. And no, I won't crank it to 11 just to piss her off. My kids are downstairs as well and they deserve to have their peace and quiet. Besides that, I feel like listening to The Searchers tonight...everyone likes beat music. I talk about my clothes shopping later since it got quite some interest in other posts.
Thanks for this and all the other responses...glad that I ended up here and sorry that I was a tad difficult at first. I'm that old dog that you are teaching new tricks.
She pooed all over it claiming that I only got the reward because I love my work more than her or the kids.
Yep, you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Let it be water off the duck's back. Those kind of awards are awesome, you can always look back and feel proud of that.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Hi Dave, hope you're making the best out of your weekend. Your W is spending all the time at home and drinking. I saw you thought about addressing it. It's probably best for you at the moment to just get out of the house and have some fun. Once you get a little stronger you may be able to stand up better but it's even more important IMO to eliminate mistakes for now. And by mistakes that would mean breaking one of Sandi's rules. So check those out and make sure you stick to it.
Also, congrats on the promotion! That is awesome. Don't go waving it in your W's face. Let her see you enjoying life and making your life awesome. This is the picnic analogy in Cadet's links.
Originally Posted by DaveK
buying myself new button shirt(s) and underwear (sorry if that is TMI)
Hell no, that's not TMI! That's too little information. Tell me all about these silky skivvies you're getting!
OK, that's a joke.
I have no idea what WW does all day long. I stopped caring. Once in a while she surfaces to get coffee, but other than that. Fine with me. I didn't mention the promotion to my wife. She may have been told by one of my sons, which is fine. They are a direct conduit to her and I have to watch even more what I tell them. Saturday was great. Watched my game and Borussia won 0-2 away...US national team won their test match as well. I did catch up on watching The Orville, the most recent episode I watched with S13 while sitting on my bed and eating a can of peanuts. I bought two shirts. They fit as long as I don't grow sideways more, but I want to go the other direction anyway. I have just the plan for that. The gym now has rowing machines and so far ten minutes beat the crap out of me. Each time I go I want to tack on one more minute. Yesterday I noticed that I get a far better rhythm when I close my eyes and that clears my mind for the time being. Also makes the seconds tick away on their own without me staring at it the whole time. Sunday started ok....talked to S17 about old computer tech stuff. He loves that. He told me about the PDP-11 and the S100 bus and that he wants to turn one of my old dot matrix printers into a teletype and he finally got around to try the IBM Model M I got him for xmas....for PC keyboard enthusiasts that is apparently the gold standard. I start slow today, my mom calls me at 11 and we talk for an hour. I feel like going somewhere cheap. I have to see how long the state museum is open. I take the bus and that will keep me busy for a few hours and out of the house. Got all the ingredients for soup. In a weak moment I bought barley because WW loves that in soup. I like it, but I am fine without it. Have yet to decide if I add it or not. Will have chicken and corn and peas and some frozen garden beans and potatoes and maybe some riced cauliflower in it. For whatever reason we have half a dozen packs of that stuff in the freezer. That should last until Tuesday when I make some meat and tomato sauce for pasta. I'm out Wednesday until late, so it should be still fine on Thursday. Got kielbasa as well, looks like Friday dinner. If weather permits I drag the grill out. Kids have plenty of easy meals and there is bread and cheese and ham. Nobody will go hungry.
I forgot to buy the underwear. I was so busy looking at the shirts that it slipped my mind. Now...silky skivvies.....was thinking of tidy whities, but I may change course, hehe. Not the boxer short kinda guy, they bunch up in my pants and...well, I bet you get it. Time to retire some of the old stuff I have. I got plenty years ago when my dad died.
So what else is on the agenda for the next days? Have to call the clock shop and ask what is up with the clock work I brought there in December. I told the guy that it wasn't urgent....maybe that means to him never. The clock is a Junghans clock from 1936, wedding present of my grandparents. Have to call the health insurance and inquire about a psychiatrist. We have a service at work where we can get recommendations, but while that guy is nice, he lives in TX and has no idea where stuff is in NY. Last email he also called me Shannon and recommended an oncologist....so he's rather useless.
So here is something where I need some advice. WW is looking for a job and put in various applications. I checked voice mail messages on Google Voice and noticed a message from a grocery store. They have interviews tomorrow. I sent her the login info when I switched phone service from local telco to Google Voice, so if she is really interested she can look up the info I sent her. The call also came in during the day while she was at home, no idea why she did not pick up....probably did not care. Should I pass that info on to WW? Or have it be her problem if she misses that opportunity?
Each time I go I want to tack on one more minute. Yesterday I noticed that I get a far better rhythm when I close my eyes and that clears my mind for the time being
Psshh thegym bunnies make me stay for way longer than an extra minute! I can't tell you how many extra miles I've run b/c of them.
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In a weak moment I bought barley because WW loves that in soup. I like it, but I am fine without it.
If it's really that big of a deal at your house just say you got it bc you enjoy it too. You don't want to be catering to her, but you also don't want to be going out of your way to be mean either.
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Should I pass that info on to WW? Or have it be her problem if she misses that opportunity?
No don't pass that along. She knows it's there right? Let her fail.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
