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Thank you all for the encouragement.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sometimes you just need me time and need to rest.. Rest well, read, smell the fresh air, drink some vino and sit all day doing nothing important except self.


Never Forget your past so you dont repeat, and regret it... The grass isnt greener on the other side, its just a different shade, and time will show it..
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sandi2,

I'm writing to thank you for your insights about wayward wives. Everything you wrote about WWs has come true. Absolutely everything. I read all your posts for newcomers on WWs and they matched the behavior I saw in mine.

I found this forum just over a year ago, and even though I just filed for divorce last week I still hope one day my WW and I can reconcile and start over.

I take full responsibility for my part in the downfall of the M. I was not perfect. My behavior contributed towards creating an atmosphere that allowed for her resentment, bitterness and disrespect to flourish. We resented each other for years due to our differences and never sought counseling. The last thing she said to me on the day she announced her separation was that she wanted an emotional connection. And that was it - she went out and found one. Since then her personality has transformed into someone I don't know. It's as if someone swapped her SIM card out.

WW is in complete denial and has thrown everything away and left me during the holidays to go live with OM. I have two daughters so I lose them 50% of the time. The irony of our situation is that WW is a full time mom to his kids but a part time one to mine.

You have no idea how valuable your insights are. I think you should write a book about wayward spouses. You are correct that traditional methods for repairing a marriage do not work with a wayward spouse. The mindset is focused on rebellion and satisfying their needs. They are not looking for changes their betrayed spouse can make because they've already checked out.

I think before any broken marriage can be saved, the distinction has to be made first between a WAW and a WW otherwise much time can be lost if the wrong approach is taken.

I have kept a journal since last year when I got the bomb drop. It's sad seeing a good person rapidly change their character and nature. We were raised Christians so she does have a moral foundation.

I emphasize again - please write a book on this. The betrayed and the wayward need this material. You could write for both. I have thoroughly searched the web and there is nothing out there other than what you've posted. The closest thing I found was affair fog but there is nothing specific about the symptoms you describe.

Thank you again for your contribution to this forum and have a happy new year.



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I wish there were some way to access a WH viewpoint. My husband of 38 years started a relationship with a a woman - he says - after becoming "lost" and "over" my depression. I had no idea. I think that the male version of this is different.

He had no commitment to her. She was the same age. He had no intention of leaving me ( I read the emails ) She had never been married or had children ( we have 4 adult children) This went on for 2 years- a EA that went to a PA.


I'm heart broken. He DB'd 6 months ago and I'm still getting it together.

We are working on our new marriage. He is remorseful . no contact with the AP for 6 months . We are intimate ( never stopped the whole time).
Any suggestions for a LBS that is working on repairing her marriage? Sorry if this is a hijack. I don't get the forum

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I'm writing to thank you for your insights about wayward wives. Everything you wrote about WWs has come true. Absolutely everything. I read all your posts for newcomers on WWs and they matched the behavior I saw in mine.


Your words are very encouraging for me. I wasn't on the board last year as much as previous years, but hopefully, I can start putting in more time. Whenever I hear someone personally thank me, it's like a shot in the arm. It's not b/c I am looking for praise, but b/c someone has been helped.....and that makes it worth the time invested.

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You have no idea how valuable your insights are. I think you should write a book about wayward spouses. You are correct that traditional methods for repairing a marriage do not work with a wayward spouse. The mindset is focused on rebellion and satisfying their needs. They are not looking for changes their betrayed spouse can make because they've already checked out.


Thank you......and what a compliment! Some members might tell you that I've written posts long enough to resemble a book. blush

Absolutely correct about WW's not looking for changes in their betrayed spouse. They don't even particularly desire changes (at that point), although, they still hold resentment and blame everything on the H. In other words, the husband could try to be Super Husband and the WW's heart would still not be phased. I've read so many posts where the WW would even tell the LBH that she had noticed his changes, but it's too late. In other words, she no longer cares if he changes. Any changes he makes should be for one reason, and that's b/c he wants to be a better man. Unfortunately, many newcomers are so consumed with the idea of doing something to win back their WW that they aren't even interested in making changes just for themselves. If they can't become the husband who can change her direction, then it's like they don't hear us telling them to work on themselves as individuals. Besides, when the WW turns cold and often has another guy in the wings, the H who caters to her and is trying to make up for the past......is really wasting his time & energy. B/c of the WW's mindset, the H has to present himself as a firm (strong) and confident male who does not tolerate disrespect. Men with NGS have a lot of trouble in this area. Some have asked me how to know when they are being disrespected, and how to enforce tough love. To me, that's so sad, but I understand it better after reading about NGS.

LBH's who can see their part of the breakdown usually have a strong desire to have a do-over and prove themselves worthy of their W. Although I get it, this type of thinking can cripple a nice-guy's work, b/c he's afraid she'll see him as his "old self" instead of how he wants to represent his new self. He wants to be all warm & fuzzy, but the WW needs a man who is stronger than her, and who will stand up to her and call her out on her BS. IMHO, the majority of newcomer H's who have a WW, want to skip working on the man, and jump to working on the role as a H.........which is actually backwards and usually doesn't have the desired affect with waywards. In order to be a better H, they first have to work on their manhood. She fell in love with you as a man, before she knew you as a H......right? So, dig deep and evaluate yourself as a man, and be proactive in whatever areas need improvement. When you get the "man" fixed, it will flow over into your relationships. While the WW is lost in la-la land, the LBH can make valuable use of that time to focus on himself. Not in a selfish sense, but to enrich his life, improve himself, challenge himself, and grow as a man.

The LBH has to improve the "man" before he can be the husband who can effectively deal with a wayward wife. He has to have the b@lls to tell her to get out, if she refuses to treat him respectfully (as a man and as her H). I don't mean he threatens her every time, but within himself he is prepared to separate if she continues to show disrespect.

Even if she is remorseful, and even if they reconcile, there will be times she'll say or do something that throws shade at him, and he cannot afford to let it slide, or else they will slide right back into the same old sitch. I think some LBH's have the mindset that once the divorce is busted, he can return to "normal life"........which for some, means they let down their guard and start allowing the W's words or actions slide without him dealing with her. By dealing, I mean he confronts her and enforces a boundary, if she doesn't truly apologize. If she doesn't apologize and she gets mad, he still sticks to his personal boundaries on how he will be respected. Here's the thing........he should never want to return to the relationship they previously had, b/c she didn't respect him as a man. That's the bottom line to this entire situation with wayward wives. They lose respect, and they build deep resentment toward the H, and rebel. They have a host of other terrible traits, but those three are the basic foundation, IMHO.

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I think before any broken marriage can be saved, the distinction has to be made first between a WAW and a WW otherwise much time can be lost if the wrong approach is taken
.

I agree, but it's not defined in Michele's books as wayward, and she doesn't separate WAW and WW. Some say it doesn't matter, b/c you still follow the basic DB principles. However, I do believe there is a lot of misunderstanding or interpretation of what those principles are. They get bogged down in the simple everyday things, and don't know how to stay balanced. They don't know how to conduct themselves and/or interact with their spouse on a day-to-day basis. If I tell them not to try to captivate their spouse by talking too much........they go totally cold/silent. See what I mean?

Like I said previously, most LBH's who come here are so filled with fear of losing their family, they can't seem to find a balance in learning how to incorporate a new or different approach and interaction with their wayward spouse. I can't tell you how many H's I've seen label their wayward wife as MLC, b/c they had rather her have a MLC than to be wayward. Plus, I've seen some who simply couldn't/wouldn't apply tough love methods, like enforcing effective boundaries. Some even moved to the MLC forum, maybe to get us off their back, IDK. I honestly wonder if some used the MLC label as an excuse for their spouse's bad behavior. You know, like some try to pin the cause to medication (or lack thereof), depression, menopause, etc. I understand when a H is trying to find answers to why his W is changing in front of his eyes, but I think many H's go into denial when waywardness is mentioned. It's like, "Please God, let anything be wrong with her, except waywardness!"

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We were raised Christians so she does have a moral foundation.


In the end, it was that very foundation that helped guide me back to solid ground. In other words, I knew I should feel remorse, but I didn't feel it. So, I prayed, confessed everything, and asked God to help me feel remorse for what I had done. I knew I could not get rid of the deep resentment toward my H without forgiving him. Maybe it sounds ironic coming from a former WW, but I had to pray for God to help me let go of that resentment and forgive my H. All WW's have to forgive their H for whatever issue caused the resentment, or their heart will remain hardened. WW's are notorious for twisting things to make herself appear as the offended party, rather than the offender. If she holds something over the H's head and says she won't ever forgive him, I don't see much hope in them having an intimately happy MR. They may remain under the same roof and try to carry on as a "couple", for the most part, but a very important link is missing in the chain due to her holding on to grudges. This is the root of several SSM's, IMHO.

Disrespect, resentment and unforgiveness are issues that cause a woman to detach from her H, especially sexually. Of course, there can be other things affecting their sexual relationship, but these three areas can be there in her heart and the H knows nothing about it. Since you are a Christian, I will refer to the Bible, where we read the account of Adam & Eve when they sinned. God handed down consequences for both of them. The results for the woman and her decedents were issued things like pregnancy and painful child birth.........plus something else women have fought since that event. God said............"Your desire shall be unto your husband, and he shall rule over you". Funny how that works. Since God put the H in the head position, the W is going to challenge him (the H), and if she doesn't feel respect for him, it will kill her sexual desire for him. She can't feel desire for the H who has been placed in the head position, unless she feels respect for him. Considering God held Adam responsible b/c he gave in to his W instead of standing up to her and telling her he wouldn't eat the fruit. God turns around and says if she doesn't respect you, Adam, there'll be little to no sex in the M. There's a real lesson for those who will think about what's going on here. Even today, if the W doesn't feel respect for her H, it eventually kills her desire for him.

I am concerned for the many people out there who seem to have no moral compass, and they just live by whatever their emotions or social media dictate for the day. Everyone doesn't have to be religious, but if they were not taught to live by certain life principles, values, integrity, etc..........what do they use as their map going through life?

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I have thoroughly searched the web and there is nothing out there other than what you've posted. The closest thing I found was affair fog but there is nothing specific about the symptoms you describe.


I found whenever I used the keyword "wayward", it would usually refer to scripture. You may have a little luck searching for the "hard hearted wife".

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Thank you again for your contribution to this forum and have a happy new year.


Well, thank you for the inspiration! As you can see, I have trouble finding an end to my posts, especially when I'm inspired. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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wish there were some way to access a WH viewpoint. My husband of 38 years started a relationship with a a woman - he says - after becoming "lost" and "over" my depression. I had no idea. I think that the male version of this is different.


I agree the male version is different.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted by sandi2
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wish there were some way to access a WH viewpoint. My husband of 38 years started a relationship with a a woman - he says - after becoming "lost" and "over" my depression. I had no idea. I think that the male version of this is different.


I agree the male version is different.



Paging neffer!!


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Has anyone heard from Sandi lately? She was last online in March and I believe was having some health problems.

Just worried about her.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Has anyone heard from Sandi lately? She was last online in March and I believe was having some health problems.

Just worried about her.
I don't really know her outside of the board, she seemed to be pretty private.

Yes it is worriesome.


Me-67, D35,S34
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Where are you Sandi?

We miss you here...


WW H(me): 51
W: 47
T: 26 M: 21
S: 16
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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