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Me:34 W:40
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D Final: 6/19
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Maika...in reply to your previous post...yeah I know it's not all my fault. In fact the end of our MR/possible D is ENTIRELY W's decision. I mean I can't stop being divorced if she simply quits...as you say and we all know it takes two.

For her to just quit...best I can imagine there must be someone else or W is mental. No sane person just quits a marriage ESP with children. But h**l maybe the world is a much crazier sad place than I pretend to believe.

Again a prior post from long ago sums up where I'm at:

Before you tell me that he wouldn't have done anything to change, you just mentioned that he's acting like "casanova and will do anything to save the marriage". Fear of loss will inspire anyone to change. The real issue is communication and HONESTY, you weren't honest with your husband about your needs and didn't really want to give him the a chance at helping fulfill those needs - it's not because he didn't want to or couldn't. You couldn't be honest with him and more importantly yourself about you wanted and you feel now that you are entitled to affairs because of this.

Men are not mind readers and neither are women because if women were, they could read men's minds and basically find out that men are clueless when it comes to this.

THAT is my sitch. I could not flippin' read her mind, but for D**N sure if I had known what truly she was needing I would have moved heaven and earth to get it for her. To not tell me and her just walk and not want to even give me a single chance...hateful.

Dude I'm hanging in there, but D**N I mean I loved her...would have done anything to please her, but...We got comfortable, had a young child and focused on her. It's totally unfair BUT where I find myself is the truth. There's a song lyric that says "I guess it's cuz the truth is the hardest thing I've ever faced, because you can't change the truth in the slightest way...cuz I've tried". That is me now...there is absolutely nothing I can do for my sitch. All I can do is take the hit, learn from it and see if I even want to try again.


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B - I totally know what you're going through. I mean that. Like you, I was more than willing to pull up my sleeves and put in the work, but she wasn't. That loss of control was mind bending. I would've done what was needed to improve and rebuild our marriage. And it would've been something stronger and more beautiful. Never was even given a chance.

And yeh, you're right about communication and honesty. I know I failed in that regard as well with my W and I wanted to figure it out. But when the other person is unwilling, what can you do?

I absolutely felt like a failure and also a piece of trash that could be just set aside like that. Like a decade of us being together and having two kids in the process and having gone through challenges and joy didn't mean anything. For me it was like - shouldn't all of that count for something to get a second chance? You know the answer to that.

The mind-reading $hit is just appalling. I really resent that like I should've just known. If her needs and concerns weren't communicated to me, how the hell is anyone supposed to know. Personally, I think it's a cop out and a cowardly excuse to rationalize their behavior and deciding to step outside the MR.

So as you said - you gotta take the hit and learn from it and move on. I know I had my faults, but I didn't deserve this. And my kids didn't deserve it either. It's all unfair, but now I know that self-reliance comes first and trust with others will come second.


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Thank you Maika for your reply. Yes, not getting that ONE chance is the most painful part of my sitch. I know that I have grown/learned a great deal, W says she has as well, but instead of W being willing for us to create some stronger and better than what we had before, she simply says "No thanks".

Communication/honesty well I feel like if I had anything that seriously bothered me I would have told her and felt comfortable to do so, BUT I'm a very laid back, go with the flow type. W is much more passionate, has anxiety and is very plan/detail oriented. Reality is that clearly she was unhappy, but beyond saying unhappy she could/would not bluntly/blatantly tell me what it was that she needed. And as we've discussed, if she could not, it's not like I could read her mind and determine what she needed.

And yes I know the answer to that. For us 5+ years, a precious D...for her to just not even try...I can't understand that. A marriage is always going to be hard work, I will remain until D fully committed to W, but she seems quite clear and content to just walk away.

Yes I feel the same way. For sure I had my faults, I can see so much that both of us could have done to improve our MR. The change occurred with the birth of our D. Children really impact the dynamic of the MR. But the thing is, this is completely common! The internet is littered with tons of stories exactly as ours. No, I didn't deserve this and for sure my D did not. Our marriage does not deserve this! I honestly am jealous of those LBHs who have sitchs in which the W is at least willing to try. It is an utterly helpless/hopeless/emotionally abusive feeling to have a W who simply quits/gives up and walks away.

Someday, somehow I will recover from this terrible period of my life. Perhaps with the benefit of time and hindsight I will be able to ascertain why I had to suffer incredibly throughout this year. There MUST be more happiness ahead in my future, but currently I'm in a dark and terrible place.


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ballast, the thing I keep thinking as I read people sitches is that we never know the true extent to our WWs' activities. Look at how they will deny things even in the face of evidence! Obviously if they deny things that voraciously, then they aren't going to volunteer things we have no clue about.

So the LBS has to be okay knowing that they only know part of what really happened in their WAS's EA or PA. If they can't live with that then they need to move on. That struck me as I read your previous post.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Yeah Steve very true. For me, besides W leaving and unhappy and not wanting to save our R, I know nothing else. Gut and guess tells me there's someone else.

I would say the most painful part of my feelings is not a possible EA/PA, but rather myself and the woman I loved took a vow, made a commitment to each other, forsaking all others, no matter what life may bring to each other. And she quit, walked, disregarded that vow/commitment. Trust me I GET that happens ALL.THE.TIME. Just did not think that it would happen to me a 2nd time especially with a woman who I REALLY thought loved me and was committed to me. That is seems like women just are so ready to walk at the first signs of no butterflies or the realization that "Hey this M stuff is going to be hard and not always fun" really depresses me.


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Yep, it happens all the time. I went on a date Friday with a woman who left her husband 5 years ago. They tried MC but in the end she knew it wasn't going to work and she couldn't explain why (she initiated the D and they had small kids at the time). Something happened after they had kids. She said she has dated guys (1 for a year), has not introduced anyone to their children, they still live close by to each other and are best friends. For whatever reason though it appears she still has no interest in being with him.

Maybe she married him for the financial security and knew he would be a good, stable man to have children with but after the children were born and of a certain age she no longer needed him and moved on to what she thinks are greener pastures.

TBH I don't think there is any way an LBS could ever predict or know something like this would ever occur. You can get into the whole Alpha Male/Beta Male discussion but I know some Alpha males that have been on the short end of the stick as well. Beta males that have been married for 30 plus years and real shitty husbands that are still married who have no business being married.

That's why I just keep reminding myself that this is more about them and what they are going through.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Last time I went to talk with my IC she pretty much agreed with me that long term, even short term marriages with the current generation are likely a thing of the past. Women simply DO NOT need men anymore, getting a divorce is easy and social media provides constant sources of easy, potential greener grass. It is much easier for women to live in the arrangement as you explain with the woman you went on a date with.

And I completely agree with you on an LBS being able to predict/know this would ever occur. That scares the bejesus out of me when I think of my future. Ladies just bottle it up, reach a point of no return and then poof that's it, gone. And the husband has ZERO chance at that point. I'm sure Alpha/Beta matters not, that type of activity hits the male population equally I'd imagine.

I worry very much that I'm coming off very down on women, marriage, etc. That is not my intent at all although it has been my experience. I truly do love women, being married/committed to one woman with a family, happiness, etc. I just really worry for the future of all of us based on what I constantly read about here and the new sitchs saying the same thing just keep coming and coming. It's very sad all of the hurt that I see SO SO many wives, husbands and children going through.


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I echo what J said. I know some beta males who are still in the marriages and I would call their relationships as illusions. Both are sticking it out for convenience sake and there is no real meaningful relationship. For some people, that works.

And yeh, this is so so so much about them than the LBS.


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Lest I seem one sided in this...Former GF from way back in HS. Sweet girl, dedicated mother of 5!, husband bailed on her just shy of 25 years, out running around now dating all over like he's in his 20's. Man had it what many of us crave and yet he walked away from it. Now no one knows what actually went on in that MR but...I am very sorry for ALL genders whom endure pain like this no matter the sitch. I pray God could/would somehow cause all of us to place renewed appreciation/respect and value on the institution of marriage. I worry for us all if we reach a point where men/women meet, have children but then mostly live separately and apart. Maybe I'm naive or irrational, but what kind of message does that send to little ones like my D when they get to be my age.


Me:34 W:40
D1:4
M:7 T:8
BD:3/18
D Final: 6/19
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