Thanks a bunch LW, Nicole, Helena and V. V, your advice makes me think of perspectives that I do not consider on my own. While H has been supportive and kind thruout MR and I do not consider I can be emotionally abused, it does not mean circumstances have not changed. Like you point out, having all view points help us all evaluate our sitches better. The only reason I am engaging in mediation is because WAHs desire to get quick D might actually be more beneficial to me and kids per L, I am running everything by L before pulling the trigger.
Had round 2 of pre mediation discussions, almost agreed on most points. H has been upbeat, friendly and happy because he is almost seeing the end of the MR. it is unsettling to see how pumped up he is but I am doing a good job of not showing it. He initiated the talks again I - what have you decided about Xxx? H - let us split it post D next year, it is too inconvenient for me right now. I - I do not want to own anything jointly after this, please ensure it is done. H - You are torturing me with this, I am not an a$$hole who is going to screw you over, I will sort it out next year. I - I am not willing to proceed unless you sort it out, I need the guarantee for the kids H - I am not abandoning kids, dont know why you have started believing that. even in future when we go to home country, we will have to do it together. I - I do not see why we need to do anything together H - because you cannot manage otherwise, you are putting more pressure on me with this xxx now. you have it easy, I am the one leaving home, I have to buy new stuff, nothing is changing for you. My face must have conveyed my disbelief or whatever he read. H - ofcourse other than i leaving I - you are free to take whatever you want from here, I am not in your way. But please sort out xxx before any finalizing, I do not want to own anything jointly. Most of the convo was pleasant, to the point. He is making convo at home about kids and other small things has also started packing his things slowly. Is the convo above DBing, or am I giving more of a I do not give a darn attitude? Is standing my ground on a few things ok with DB, although D in my case seems to be lurking its ugly head round the corner I still have my boxing gloves on to beat it in the face.
Sorry for the long post, I am not in a good place just venting and desperate for advice and feedback.
We had long mediation and settlement talks yesterday. WAH has started saying everything is going my way, finances, custody and that I am not budging. His need to get a quick D is so strong that he does not seem to want any hurdles. Spends time and talks about love for the kids but immediately agreed to having them only for couple of days. As a mother I do not understand how you can go without seeing them for most part of the week but he is okay with minimum custody if it means a quick D thru mediation. I made it clear I do not want to own anything jointly after this because he wanted to keep some things to be resolved post D. He was upset I was not being more lenient. Even said he was not in here to swindle me but he was getting out of the MR because I was judgemental and not emotionally available. I just validated but stayed my course. He wants to throw birthday parties together for the children and plan vacations together to home country, I said no to both to which he was annoyed again. I mentioned any kid would love to have 2 parties and until things are figured out in future I do not intend to host anything togehter. He does not want to pay child support but wants to manage expenses thru an App, split it halfway or contribute little more based on income, I said if he is ending this legally I would let law decide child support and that I dont want to have private convos for the rest of our lives about child care expenses.
I did speak a lot, I should 180 on that really, but at least I stayed calm, patient but persistent. I using the term single mother bothered him a few times, he started saying dont act like a victim and he has said that before to which I said neither I nor my children are victims and that we will do fine. I am using the term I and my children, that is pissing him off, he says he is not abandoning the children and I am beign selfish as always by just prioritizing my life and theirs. Should I say our children instead? I do not use We, Us or our anymore as much as possible in convos.
He mentioned we have to see each other almost everyday due to children, even if it is not his day with kids he will be available to pick them up or drop off or anything else I need. I just mentioned that he is free to do as he pleases on his days, if I am really sick I may request his help with kids but other than that I wish to manage on my own. I also said seeing each other every day is not helathy for either of us to move on. I do not want to pretend to be one happy family post D, that is confusing and unhealthy for everyone including the kids and I made that clear to him.
He wants me to move to another state with him post D, I said I would try but I wouldnt jeopardize my career over it since I need my job as a single mother to feed and put a roof over our heads. He stated that he is clinically depressed for one year and I am torturing him more by not agreeing to anything and helping him out, I just said I am sorry he felt depressed and that we did not have a R where he could share it with me but with the way things are right now I will have to keep my job intact.
This morning he saw a handyman come in to repair something, I had not mentioned to him that I was hiring a handyman as I am paying for it on my own. He said I understand you are tyring to be independent here but since I lived here for so long I would like to chip in, I said its ok I can manage but he said he wants to contribute so I responded saying thanks and i appreciate it.
This may not be DBing, I may be at the juncture where he has been told I am ready for what is to come and I am moving forward because I have kids to raise. Should I tone down? Did the convo get too out of hand? Please advise and point out any mistakes, it was a 2 hr convo I have only recorded the stand out points I may have made other mistakes that are not mentioned here. Am I being too aggressive here? I did mention that this is not a mutually concentual D, I am cooperating with mediation only because it is what is good for the children.
Mediation talks are so close and it seems like the end of the road, am I nailing the MR coffin shut with my behavior? I want to fight for the MR, to stand up to what we had, but I am agreeing to mediation because he is offering good terms for the kids, I have checked with L. Sometimes I feel I should contest the D and pull it out but that is only going to make things bitter. I feel so lost, seems like with mediation I am giving in to WAHs craziness but I also know it is better for the kids and me instead of the legal battle.
Arsh, I wish I was some kind of an expert but just based on what I hear from you it seems you're doing the right thing. A legal battle would take longer and would cause you to suffer more. It wouldn't increase the chance of reconciliation assuming your husband won't change his mind until he first experiences freedom and then starts to miss what the two of you had.
One thing I'm having trouble understanding is your husband believing you weren't emotionally available to him while he was depressed. Has he ever talked to you about what caused his depression and whether he has sought treatment? The only doubt I'd have in the back of my mind is if your husband missed you and needed you and he was waiting for you to do or say something at some point to reassure him that you were there for him. Then when you didn't do it perhaps he got mad and went into a downward spiral that led him to want a divorce? I don't think that's the case. There's enough evidence that you've tried to be responsive to him and offer to fix things and even then he didn't want to try, so it seems this is his own issue and he's simply blaming you to make himself feel justified.
You know your husband better than anyone here. There's the possibility of you trying to make some final statement about how you're sorry you didn't realize he was depressed because you were busy with the kids but you're confident the future is bright and this difficult time will pass. I doubt it would make a difference but I do believe your husband will remember what you say now in the future. I believe the advice you'll get from most people here is that if you try to say anything to your husband that could appear to be pursuit he'll simply react aggressively and you'll feel even more hurt, so I guess there's really not much more you can do than what you're doing now.
I don't think you're being too aggressive with what you're requesting for you and your daughters. As some have mentioned, you have to separate the business aspect of divorce from the emotional aspect, so it sounds like you're doing great in the business aspect.
It doesn't seem right that your husband thinks he can divorce you and get all the freedom in the world for himself knowing that you don't want this, and then think he can come around whenever he wants, plan parties and trips, and otherwise do normal things together.
Sorry for the long post, I am not in a good place just venting and desperate for advice and feedback.
This is tough stuff, your future health and living depend on this so it will be stressful.
We had long mediation and settlement talks yesterday. WAH has started saying everything is going my way, finances, custody and that I am not budging.
Guilt tripping you as reality bites.
His need to get a quick D is so strong that he does not seem to want any hurdles.
This gives you mediation strength.
Spends time and talks about love for the kids but immediately agreed to having them only for couple of days. As a mother I do not understand how you can go without seeing them for most part of the week but he is okay with minimum custody if it means a quick D thru mediation.
You can always relax this later by agreement. For now this is great news.
I made it clear I do not want to own anything jointly after this because he wanted to keep some things to be resolved post D. He was upset I was not being more lenient. Even said he was not in here to swindle me but he was getting out of the MR because I was judgemental and not emotionally available. I just validated but stayed my course.
So proud of you, that can't have been easy.This is mediation not MC, and therefore his current views on what he is getting out of the R are irrelevant. Perhaps like many of us you cooked the wrong pasta, had a messy closet or wore too much pink. Not relevant as to why he is D, these are fin and custody terms.
He wants to throw birthday parties together for the children and plan vacations together to home country, I said no to both to which he was annoyed again. I mentioned any kid would love to have 2 parties and until things are figured out in future I do not intend to host anything togehter.
He still wants to control everything. And in my view parallel parenting is a perfectly valid choice for you.
He does not want to pay child support but wants to manage expenses thru an App, split it halfway or contribute little more based on income,
What a surprise, he doesn't want to shoulder his fin responsibility. Especially when it's hard to enforce this has to be mandated and covered for your children.
I said if he is ending this legally I would let law decide child support and that I dont want to have private convos for the rest of our lives about child care expenses.
Absolutely. EXCELLENT! AWESOME
I did speak a lot, I should 180 on that really, but at least I stayed calm, patient but persistent. I using the term single mother bothered him a few times,
Truth dart. Good for you.
he started saying dont act like a victim and he has said that before to which I said neither I nor my children are victims and that we will do fine.
Really loving your awesome mamma bear approach.
I am using the term I and my children, that is pissing him off, he says he is not abandoning the children and I am beign selfish as always by just prioritizing my life and theirs.
Children come first, the law also looks to the child being prioritised. He is an idiot.
Should I say our children instead? I do not use We, Us or our anymore as much as possible in convos.
I would use the neutral expression the children.
He mentioned we have to see each other almost everyday due to children, even if it is not his day with kids he will be available to pick them up or drop off or anything else I need.
More attempts at control. He is a delusional idiot.
I just mentioned that he is free to do as he pleases on his days, if I am really sick I may request his help with kids but other than that I wish to manage on my own.
Great in your awesomeness.
I also said seeing each other every day is not helathy for either of us to move on. I do not want to pretend to be one happy family post D, that is confusing and unhealthy for everyone including the kids and I made that clear to him.
Too right. You don't even need to say this just do it.
He wants me to move to another state with him post D,
What an entitled jerk wad!
I said I would try but I wouldnt jeopardize my career over it since I need my job as a single mother to feed and put a roof over our heads.
Let go of appeasing him. Live your life around your needs. Suppose jerk wad wants to move to Alaska, it has been known. Do you keep disturbing your life on his whimsy?
He stated that he is clinically depressed for one year and I am torturing him more by not agreeing to anything and helping him out, I just said I am sorry he felt depressed and that we did not have a R where he could share it with me but with the way things are right now I will have to keep my job intact.
I can't diagnose him but his actions aren't that of someone clinically depressed. He is cohesive and focused in getting D. Maybe its his man parts that are lying about his depression. Sorry I deal with the clinically depressed and most of them don't get out of bed until noon.
This morning he saw a handyman come in to repair something, I had not mentioned to him that I was hiring a handyman as I am paying for it on my own. He said I understand you are tyring to be independent here but since I lived here for so long I would like to chip in, I said its ok I can manage but he said he wants to contribute so I responded saying thanks and i appreciate it.
This is good.
This may not be DBing,
It is bang on DB. Absolutely it is. It is strong and detached doing the job for you and your children.
I may be at the juncture where he has been told I am ready for what is to come and I am moving forward because I have kids to raise. Should I tone down?
No. It is mighty for you and your kids.
Did the convo get too out of hand? Please advise and point out any mistakes, it was a 2 hr convo I have only recorded the stand out points.
This is pretty awesome, great DB, and you were fair, allowing him custody as needed, were reasonable and straightforward. All seems great to me, it is your job to get fairness for yourself and the children.
I may have made other mistakes that are not mentioned here. Am I being too aggressive here? I did mention that this is not a mutually concentual D, I am cooperating with mediation only because it is what is good for the children.
Absolutely ok and a great attitude.
Mediation talks are so close and it seems like the end of the road, am I nailing the MR coffin shut with my behavior?
Can I remind you mediation isn't about MR. It's about S and terms. It's about fins and the practicalities of S and D. It can't be emotional. MR is a separate thing entirely don't confuse these two.
I want to fight for the MR, to stand up to what we had, but I am agreeing to mediation because he is offering good terms for the kids, I have checked with L.
Mediation is a great solution for you I think so. And it has nothing to do with MR. Caving in to appease won't bring MR into being. The coffin is already buried on the MR. You are discussing funeral costs.
Sometimes I feel I should contest the D and pull it out but that is only going to make things bitter. I feel so lost, seems like with mediation I am giving in to WAHs craziness but I also know it is better for the kids and me instead of the legal battle.
I totally agree with you. You will likely get a more reasonable and fair result. And reduced animosity compared to a contested D which I think you would lose. I can't see any judge not granting a D to your WH. You would end up paying WH legal costs too in a contested D.
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Amazing result. Masterful.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Hi friends, I have not posted on here in a few months, but for some reason I'm drawn here tonight, just to see how things are going, and if any of my "saviors" are still here. This forum literally saved my life, in January 2017, and continued to be my lifeline for months. I'd come here daily, multiple times, just to have someone to talk to, and there is always someone here. What I'd say to you newcomers is this- things look hopeless, and maybe the relationship/marriage is...... but there is a new YOU out there, if you can swim to the other side. THIS FORUM WILL HELP YOU GET THERE. Your life may not look the way it used to, and it probably never will again, because if you are here, then you've been crushed by THE NEWS, whatever fits in your situation. But take heart. A new story is being written for you. You just have to find the courage to face it, one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time. If any of my buddies are still out there and reading, please check in and give me updates. I miss you all, and will forever be thankful for stumbling into this place, and for your support in getting me through the worst time in my life.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Hi Arsh, how is your weekend going? I've been thinking about your situation and how what happened with your husband resembles what happened with mine in some ways. In both cases our husbands say they were unhappy, blamed it on us, and chose to leave their families. You know, I was unhappy with my husband when our daughter was born too, but I didn't leave. My husband didn't help out, he did a lot of selfish things, and he wasn't empathetic. I was still committed to being married. And even my husband stuck around unhappy until he found a girlfriend in two cases. I don't know, but it just seems to me that something triggered your husband to leave. You say he couldn't be having an affair but he was on his phone a lot when he first asked for a divorce. Could he have been browsing dating sites and found someone he was talking to online and who he wanted to meet? Is there ever a time when he went out alone for even a day, or took a business trip out of town? He may have met someone and suddenly felt alive and connected. Also why does he want to move out of state to the particular city where he wants to go? Are you sure he didn't meet someone who lives there?
It doesn't make any difference right now because it sounds like the divorce will happen regardless, but if your husband is doing this because he met someone, or there's someone out there he's waiting to date, then it may just be a matter of time until that doesn't work out and then what? He would likely come back to you.
I just can't think of why else someone in your culture would do this. If you were really abusive and treated him with such cruelty and harmed him then he may be trying to escape, but everything you've written here indicates you're not like that.
Anyway my husband left twice and had a girlfriend each time and now I think it may not have worked out with the last girlfriend and my husband still didn't come back, so I guess if they're happy enough single they still won't return, but it seems like there's something that caused your husband to walk away. I hope he learns a valuable lesson and comes back to you begging for forgiveness. I hope you'll come back to this forum and let us know if that happens someday!
V, thank you! i read your responses a few times over the last few days to keep myself strong. It is so hard to have faith and keep DBing, so anything to hold on to makes all the difference.
Nicole, it may have happened that WAH was in depression during my pregnancy and never opened up to me and I did not get it either, so he decided I was self engrossed and went on a downward spiral. While there has been no indication of A, I have been told multiple times the phone secrecy is a big red flag. I maybe in denial here and too trusting based on how he has been in the past but here are a few more red flags that I may have not mentioned before. - Although he had mostly decided and started shutting down on me about a month before, he did take a business trip to this specific place and as soon as he returned BDd. Yes, yes I know, I am a fool and more. I was also 9 week post partum then. - the day of BD he also said he would like to move there because he met some of his old school buddies and had the best time that he has had in a long time - He used to dislike this place before, I have always wanted to move here but now his version is he chose this specific place because we could both transfer offices with same job to this location and also lay behold I have been wanting to move here. - His phone actions indicate messaging not just browsing and as unsocial as he is now other than talking to his just Dd friend, I do not think this much communication can happen with just his friend. So while I continue being in denial giving benefit of doubt to the person he was, I have slowly come to realize it might be an EA and maybe he wants D to make it PA. But what kind of woman would want to get involved with a man who has D3 and another one that was just born? Either way, time will tell, if he moves leaving the children behind it will speak volumes. I have no proof no intel and no way of getting any. I have to be in a place where I dont give a duck either. I have been reading up a lot about MLC, although H is not even 35 there are a LOT of things that I can identify with is behavior. In a later post I am going to list all of his bizarre behaviors so someone who has MLC experience can hopefully tell me if he is an early MLC candidate.
