Meanwhile 12 Years Later

[Dawgs]

this is the beauty of this site.....we can post something that is obviously how we think and feel and then others can post on it based on their thoughts and feelings, which may or may not match ours.

Yep. That is until "feelings" are hurt because someone disagreed. Oh the horror.

[Dawn70]

this is the beauty of this site.....we can post something that is obviously how we think and feel and then others can post on it based on their thoughts and feelings, which may or may not match ours.

Yep. That is until "feelings" are hurt because someone disagreed. Oh the horror.

Are you disagreeing with me? I'm hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I may not be able to recover my fragile ego...sniffle, sniffle...........................

[Dawgs]

this is the beauty of this site.....we can post something that is obviously how we think and feel and then others can post on it based on their thoughts and feelings, which may or may not match ours.

Yep. That is until "feelings" are hurt because someone disagreed. Oh the horror.

Are you disagreeing with me? I'm hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I may not be able to recover my fragile ego...sniffle, sniffle...........................

If you could see how hard I'm laughing at the relevancy of that statement...

[DonH]

Dawn, you made some really great points - as you often do - and I wanted to respond, after thinking about it for a bit and now finding some time.

Here's something I don't quite get. You mentioned the "tone" of her text. I have seen other posters mention that as well, but text has no tone. There is no affect within text. I think that people read into texts whatever emotion they ASSUME goes with it.

Perhaps "tone" is not the right word to use. I can just tell, or at least thought/think that I can based on previous responses. I know how quickly she typically responds, how much she writes, what she says, etc. So for example, if in the past i've written, "Maybe we'll have time to talk tonight" or something like that, I'd often get back "I really hope so, I'm looking forward to it.' To me that has a tone to it rather than saying the same thing and getting back a simple "Maybe". Does that make better sense?

So, you're saying drinking and skinny dipping make her wild? Hmmmmmm......LOL I may have to rethink it when I tell people I'm not wild at all if that is the case.

Again, I guess it's all context. In the context of a Sunday evening with her BFF's husband around, yeah, that's a bit more wild than I'm used to. It's not like trying to win a wet T-shirt contest by ripping off your shirt in front of 100 guys type of wild but it's a bit higher on the wild scale than the average woman - I think????? It is the case at least for many to most of the women I know.

13 years is not that much difference once you get to a certain age. But maybe she prefers younger men because that helps her maintain some semblance of youth herself. I mean, dating someone a lot younger than you certainly doesn't hurt the old ego, right?

I obviously can't deny that as I'm doing it!!!! I'll admit to gratuitously slipping into my lunch conversation yesterday with a past colleague that I was spending some time with a hot 42-year old. For her I don't think it's only that I'm 13 years older, it's that I'm near 20 years older than her previous BF and at least 15 years older than many guys she has dated - or as she calls it "hung out with." Although, I now have a different thought on this that I'll address later in this post.

This is really more of an observation based on your posts than anything, but for someone who keeps downplaying your interest in this woman for various reasons (age, drinking, wildness), you seem to care an awful lot about her family and her friends and how they perceive you. You display a reticence to label this as anything beyond dating and continually mention that you are going slow, which is totally fine, but sometimes your own description of your thoughts belies that a bit. I think you are more smitten than you care to acknowledge or admit.

Yes, you are correct on most all of this. I often care about what other people think about me - in only that I use it as a gauge to myself. What I'm trying to say, (which is opposite of each other) is that while I don't care what people think once I've decided on something - I own it. However, I do care what people think in helping me shape my thoughts, actions, etc. I hope that came out right. In this case, I just don't at all want to be labeled a jerk or player or whatever that lead this daughter/niece/friend, on and "broke her heart." Even if I would never see WG again, and that could happen as our paths would not cross that much, I most certainly will see her parents, relatives, friends and their friends. That's my bigger fear. It still is not anything beyond dating. It really is not. H@ll, she won't even call it dating although I swear that is more a running joke now than anything. But it's only been like 6 weeks. I've not seen her in nearly 10 days. We are dating. Thing is, yes, I'm more smitten than I thought I would be. I'll again endeavor to pull this altogether at the end.

You keep up pretty closely as to when you'll talk and when you won't and that sort of thing.

Now this to be completely honest, this mostly done for the benefit of everyone reading. I don't update here all that often - sometimes weeks apart. I'm more trying to paint a picture to the readers about future plans or potential plans along with my thoughts on them, to give a more accurate picture of where things are.

I disagree - I think 6 months away is a little bit too far away to make plans with somebody you've only started dating - especially when she's so ambivalent. If you can wait another month before submitting a name I would.

I so totally agree with KML on this. Now, turns out, it's looking like she's less ambivalent than I thought, but I really don't want to give her the wrong feeling about asking to do something six months from now. And then it's a pretty big deal. Even though I'm not paying for it out of my pocket, I really am asking her to go on a nearly $2,000 vacation. That is just not even close to typical for me - ask someone on a $2K vacation 6 weeks into dating. And pretty much EVERYTHING is paid for. It will cost her nothing. You also said in another post why don't I just give her name in case we are still dating and she ends up going. That's just not possible. This is a one and done thing here. While I'm sure if I fight like heck I could come to them down the road and try to switch things but there may well be costs involved in that if they even do it. The costs could be hundreds of dollars as well - especially if they ticket the airfare. They could well say, sorry Charlie you can't submit a different name. I've thought about just explaining it all and saying it doesn't change anything for us, etc. but if you do decide to go, it's going to be a big deal to back out. Once I ask, we are effectively going to be together for at least the next 6 months. I mean that's how I think most people would view it. I'm less concerned about her going with me. I think we'd have a great time and would do just fine together for a week - even right now. If it were 2 months away, I'd have zero concern. But it's not, it's 6 months. This and other reasons is why it's best to wait as long as I possibly can before I ask.

So, let's see if I can pull this altogether. Yes, if I just go with it and not think about it, I'm more interested than I thought I would be. We just really fit well. We are beyond comfortable with each other, she totally gets me and my humor we are both in similar places - neither having dated much recently, me D'd for coming up on 12 years, her for 9. However, if I then really think about it, I'm like, wow we are also different - there is the age, there is her wilder than typical (for me) nature, she's not the highly educated, somewhat cultured type I often fit with. By her own admission she has a lot of street smarts but she's a down to earth country farm girl - who also cleans up well and enjoys a Broadway show as much as a truck pull - or perhaps close to the truck pull. Her BFF is a WW and that bothered or still bothers me a bit although she does not at all agree with BFF's actions but is trying to support her lifelong friend - who evidently had to be treated for an STD very recently. Her poor husband - but that's a whole other topic. It's not Wild Girl, it's her BFF. I'm trying to focus on the fact that she's standing by her friend - which is including telling her she doesn't agree with some of the stuff she's doing.

Anyhow, if I really think about it then I take some steps back. The huge irony here and a good friend of mine sort of said it as I was point it out, is by most assumptions, I've found exactly what I've thought I've wanted and been looking for. Someone who is fine with casual, not smothering, doesn't feel the need to see me every day or perhaps even every week. Really loves sex, is a lot of fun and doesn't live 5 minutes away. I really sort of have found it. However, now that I have, do I still want it? LOL. Oh how life can be cruel - Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!

I thought she was pulling back for this past week, and I guess she sort of has been, but not like I thought or why I thought. I thought she was finally succumbing to the "he's too old and outside of my box thing," or even thought she met or at least got attention from guys more typical to what she is attracted to, when really I think she may be using it like I'm using the negatives - to distance. Turns out she really is more interested than I thought. She's talking about me to friends all of the time - even telling me about it. Had a dream that I told her I didn't want to hang out anymore and how bad she felt about it - even when she woke up and knew it was just a dream. She still says she is struggling
with the age gap even though she doesn't want to, but clearly when asked "How's your love life been Wild Girl" by friends of hers, she's saying how she met this really great guy and is having so much fun but didn't think she would because he's 13 years older and that is difficult for her. They, of course, tell her what you all have been telling me. She also tells them I'm very naughty which fits well with her WG side. Who knew? LOL But seriously, is that what KML says about sex coloring things?

So, while I don't think any of this changes things largely - it may just acknowledge what has been underlying for a little while. We talked last night about some baseball game specials in August and September and that didn't seem to phase her at all - being a month or two into the future. That's likely a good step for the cruise. She seems very good at last minute plans. Yeah, a cruise can't be last minute but 5 or even 4 months is not last minute. She can rather easily get off of work and since she doesn't need to save $$$ for it, that's not an issue. Looks like I'll be seeing her house tomorrow night since I'll be in her area. That's another mini-milestone on her end as she never or rarely brings guys to the house. My plans might alter for Sunday so I may end up seeing her this weekend after thinking that would not happen. So, I'm just trying to go with the flow. Ironic how I sort of went from concerns she was distancing and pulling back to now concerns that she's not. That's all on me. Hopefully I explained it better to all of you!

I'm still just trying to enjoy the ride. I'm actually somewhat surprised myself that I've not gotten "those feelings" of wanting to pull back or just plain getting sick of the person. That often would have happened by now - yet it has not. It's all still to be continued.

[Dawn70]

Perhaps "tone" is not the right word to use. I can just tell, or at least thought/think that I can based on previous responses. I know how quickly she typically responds, how much she writes, what she says, etc. So for example, if in the past i've written, "Maybe we'll have time to talk tonight" or something like that, I'd often get back "I really hope so, I'm looking forward to it.' To me that has a tone to it rather than saying the same thing and getting back a simple "Maybe". Does that make better sense?

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. But I think that it rides the line of mindreading. There is no telling why there was a pause. Could’ve literally been ANY reason.

I so totally agree with KML on this. Now, turns out, it's looking like she's less ambivalent than I thought, but I really don't want to give her the wrong feeling about asking to do something six months from now. And then it's a pretty big deal. Even though I'm not paying for it out of my pocket, I really am asking her to go on a nearly $2,000 vacation. That is just not even close to typical for me - ask someone on a $2K vacation 6 weeks into dating. And pretty much EVERYTHING is paid for. It will cost her nothing. You also said in another post why don't I just give her name in case we are still dating and she ends up going. That's just not possible. This is a one and done thing here. While I'm sure if I fight like heck I could come to them down the road and try to switch things but there may well be costs involved in that if they even do it. The costs could be hundreds of dollars as well - especially if they ticket the airfare. They could well say, sorry Charlie you can't submit a different name. I've thought about just explaining it all and saying it doesn't change anything for us, etc. but if you do decide to go, it's going to be a big deal to back out. Once I ask, we are effectively going to be together for at least the next 6 months. I mean that's how I think most people would view it. I'm less concerned about her going with me. I think we'd have a great time and would do just fine together for a week - even right now. If it were 2 months away, I'd have zero concern. But it's not, it's 6 months. This and other reasons is why it's best to wait as long as I possibly can before I ask.

Well, I understand your point. Just don’t happen to agree. But for the record, I did NOT suggest giving her name and changing later if necessary. I don’t remember who did, but I think it was actually kml who asked if that was possible. As I stated originally, you have to do what works for you, so if we disagree, it doesn’t really matter. I also merely pointed out, I would want to be asked early because I’m a planner and of course everyone who disagrees jumped on board with how she doesn’t need that much time. We all have our own thoughts and opinions and those are mine. But, I would never suggest anyone do anything other than what works for them.

[DonH]

Yes it was KML who suggested putting her name as a placeholder. That entire section of my list was quoting and intended for KML and not you Dawn. I never thought you had said that. I will see one of the head cruise dudes this saturday and then Sarah on Sunday so I'll play it by ear. If I get more Tim Saturday I'll use it. If not I'll talk with her about it in Sunday.

[kml]

For the record Don I don't understand what's up with people sometimes, but I certainly never interpreted anything you said as boastful. We're talking about dating here, and frankly, at a certain age, things like careers, financial status, retirement accounts and interests, are actually much more important to our dating choices than they were when we were younger. I also imagine some might take my talking about being in a band as boasting - but I talk about it here because I think it's important for people after a divorce to expand their horizons of what is possible - nobody, I mean NOBODY in my life would have expected me to learn to play the drums and vibraphone in my 50's and end up playing with real life serious musicians - least of all ME! It was the shock of the divorce that shook me out of my self-imposed constraints and this was just one example of what can happen when you let go of preconceived notions.

As for Wild Girl - it's interesting for me, as someone who has dated Love Avoidants in the past, to see how you respond to her. The more space she gives you the more interested you are. And it seems like you share a real compatibility even though some things don't quite line up with your previous preferences - which is a good reminder for us all not to get too locked into our preconceptions. I understand your fear of possibly hurting her feelings and those of the family you know if it doesn't work out, but I also remind you - she IS an adult. You haven't made any promises and neither has she. That being said, I'm glad to see you're enjoying the relationship.

CMM definitely is pursuing me - a bit much in the beginning - so I can really appreciate what it must be like for an Avoidant when someone comes on too strong. Last week he brought up maybe buying season tickets for the theater - starting in the fall - and that seemed a little presumptuous to me! Even though I am really liking my time with him, we're just at different places - me, cautious and "show me", him, "yahoo, dream girl, let's jump in!". Seems like you and WG are actually better matched in that way.

[Vanilla]

Don

I love reading about your dating experiences. I have been rooting for wild girl she sounds like a real tonic and I would like a wild guy in my life.

Well at least someone who will throw away their Zimmer frame, get naked, and love music.

The band thing is crazy loco, and super exciting to me.

V

[DonH]

I'm really pressed for time and out the door for the weekend here and then MIGHT be seeing Wild Girl Sunday night and into Monday, but I just wanted to leave a really quick - certainly quick and short for me - message to say thank you to everyone both here and even moreso off the boards. The messages have been flooding in. No one used the term "little Beaotch" but crazy, psychopath, bully, certifiable and others have been batted around. I mostly didn't want anyone to take my silence or absence as anything but lack of time. I think most realize that I don't post all that much anyhow, but those who want to make shlt up as they go might turn into hiding. But I am the antithesis of a snowflake and don't think I've ever been even moderately bothered by anything ever said here. Or if there ever was, I can't for the life of me remember it - which means it could not have been that bad. It's amazing and gratifying how clearly people see things - and that has been obvious. It's also very, very heart-warming to receive such an outpouring of support - especially off the board and even through friends of friends off the boards. Wow, many of you guys are really connected out there! Anyhow, I find all of this nothing but humorous and will not change who I am or what I say - so don't worry. And yes - I'm so busy because I'm playing band gigs!!!! LOL BUT THANKS!

As for Wild Girl, sadly the red flags have really been waving this week - perhaps the past two. I've talked with a few about it off the board and will comment more here when I can. It's in some ways more of the same but the come closer/go away/come closer continues to happen - and now rather than just my gut sensing it over text or on the phone, it's happening in front of my eyes. This has for the most part turned to an exercise of me finding out more about me - including how I can perhaps fall a bit father and faster than I thought but then too back off and detach just as fast. Perhaps it's all a function of being a little less than 2 months rather than 2 years or something. In the end, this appears to be turning more to a FWB than anything - which is really what I thought I wanted in the first place. I can take the red flags with a FWB - or just a friend - but not if it were to go further. Like I said, I'll elaborate when i know more - which may happen this weekend - or not LOL. Time will tell - but I'm fine, actually great with the sum total of everything, but again thanks for checking just in case!!!!

[kml]

One thing I've learned in life is that people who lash out often have stuff going on with them that we know nothing about. I'm a little concerned about why said poster is so bothered and angry, and why he would take you telling us facts about your life as offensively boastful? He seems to have everything going his way, reuniting with long lost love - so why is he doing this? I can only guess, which of course is inaccurate, but could he be worried about being enough for HQ, or afraid the bubble could burst? ( I think most of us here with post-bomb-drop jitters, feel a persistent sense that even when things are going well, it all could be taken away from us in an instant. The better things are, the scarier they fear is because we have more to lose.) I hope that those who are close to him will keep an eye out for him. We all want nothing but good for those that are in this unfortunate brotherhood of LBSs.

As for WG - I think you're being sensible, dating is about learning if the other person is a match. I don't think it's Avoidant of you to recognize potential red flags. Sounds like you can just give it a little more time?