New LBS - need advice, part deux

[sandi2]

Hi Apothem, I saw you wave at me on another thread and I've read about your situation. Really sorry for you and your son. I agree with the advice your DB coach has given you. Currently, I don't see much else you could be doing......without making things worse.

Do you feel getting the D will help you move on? Many people believe they can't detach emotionally unless/until they are legally divorced. I suppose everyone is a little different, but so far, I don't remember anyone saying that it helped with their emotional pain.

Your coach is correct about these things taking time. I can't even remember right now, but I think my affair lasted somewhere between 9 - 12 months. It may sound strange to hear me say I can't remember, but I don't think about the affair anymore......except when I make reference to it on the board. I don't think about the OM. There was a time, right after I ended the A, I wondered if I would ever be able to get him out of my head. So you see, things can turn back around, but it definitely takes time.

Everyone has to make their own decision to hold back getting a D, or go through with it. You know your own heart & mind, and if you feel you could never get past the betrayal and forgive her for the affair.......then getting a D is probably best. It takes a lot of forgiveness. And some WW's have a lot of stubborn pride that holds them back from being humble and remorseful. When that's the case, they don't want to do the work that's required to piece the M back together again. They prefer to act as if the A never took place. But that's sweeping it under the rug, and the M can't heal. I call it false pride, b/c they (WW) cling to old resentments and use them to hold over the H's head, especially if he blames her for the A. So, she has to let go of all that old stuff that she's carried around for a long time. Forgiveness has to come from both spouses, before any progress is accomplished in the MR.

BTW, she is responsible for having an A. She needs to accept responsibility for the A before real reconciliation takes place. Don't let her put that blame on you (should she try), and don't you accept blame for it. You have your own faults for your part of the breakdown in the MR, but only the affair partners are responsible for their actions.

Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.

[apothem]

Hi Sandi,

I really appreciate you taking the time to review my situation and offer advice. I've replied below in red.

Hi Apothem, I saw you wave at me on another thread and I've read about your situation. Really sorry for you and your son. I agree with the advice your DB coach has given you. Currently, I don't see much else you could be doing......without making things worse.

I agree here, I think the DB coach knows my situation well enough and what has been working and what hasn't. She suggested I continue to be friendly, but not a door mat. To continue no contact and only respond.

Do you feel getting the D will help you move on? Many people believe they can't detach emotionally unless/until they are legally divorced. I suppose everyone is a little different, but so far, I don't remember anyone saying that it helped with their emotional pain.

Personally, I don't think the D will help me move on. I began the process of detaching as soon as I found this board and started reading DR around a month ago or so. I've also been seeing two therapists in addition to the DB coach and reading quite a bit of self-help books (The Road Less Traveled, No More Mr. Nice Guy, The 5 Love Languages, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, and Codependent No More).

I've really started to come into my own and it feels so liberating and refreshing. I've been going out and socializing A LOT more than I ever did. Oddly enough, I've found myself to be the life of the party (something I used to be, but have toned down a lot). I've also been receiving quite a bit of positive female attention, largely in part because of how I've been carrying myself - confident, back straight, chest out, head up, etc. It also helps that I've been exhibiting far greater self control when it comes to eating. I've lost 30 lbs since the bomb drop. I feel like I'm back to my old self, the person my wife initially fell in love with, except this time around it's an even better version of who I was. This process has taught me a lot about myself and helped me realize and acknowledge flaws that I have and how to address them.

Your coach is correct about these things taking time. I can't even remember right now, but I think my affair lasted somewhere between 9 - 12 months. It may sound strange to hear me say I can't remember, but I don't think about the affair anymore......except when I make reference to it on the board. I don't think about the OM. There was a time, right after I ended the A, I wondered if I would ever be able to get him out of my head. So you see, things can turn back around, but it definitely takes time.

My coach has definitely made it clear that it takes time. Typically it's around 6-9 months before the high goes away. That doesn't necessarily mean the affair ends, but they start to see the OM for what they really are. She informed me the typical affair lasts 6-12 months largely because they are built on lies and deceit and not true values like their marriage was built on (at least in most cases).

Everyone has to make their own decision to hold back getting a D, or go through with it. You know your own heart & mind, and if you feel you could never get past the betrayal and forgive her for the affair.......then getting a D is probably best. It takes a lot of forgiveness. And some WW's have a lot of stubborn pride that holds them back from being humble and remorseful. When that's the case, they don't want to do the work that's required to piece the M back together again. They prefer to act as if the A never took place. But that's sweeping it under the rug, and the M can't heal. I call it false pride, b/c they (WW) cling to old resentments and use them to hold over the H's head, especially if he blames her for the A. So, she has to let go of all that old stuff that she's carried around for a long time. Forgiveness has to come from both spouses, before any progress is accomplished in the MR.

I've made the decision to hold back on filing. The ball is in her court to file, which I'm pretty confident she will be doing soon (within the next couple of week). I know I could get past the affair and the betrayal and forgive her, but she has to be willing to show remorse. She has to show me through actions, not just words that she is truly sorry and wants to work on our relationship. I did not force her to have an affair, nobody did. It was a conscious decision she made. However, she also has to be able to forgive me for my contributions to the marriage breaking down.

I've also come up with conditions she must meet for reconciliation, and they are as follows:

[list]
[*]She must get an STD test [*]She must have a proper pregnancy test at an OBGYN [*]She must agree to MC [*]She must agree to IC [*]She must cut off ALL contact with the OM. Which in this case would require her to find a new job OR relocate to a different store

If she will not accept those terms, I can't believe she is truly remorseful and willing to work on our marriage. To me, it would just mean I was option B - which I am not. I did talk to my DB coach regarding my terms and she thinks they are fair given the situation.

BTW, she is responsible for having an A. She needs to accept responsibility for the A before real reconciliation takes place. Don't let her put that blame on you (should she try), and don't you accept blame for it. You have your own faults for your part of the breakdown in the MR, but only the affair partners are responsible for their actions.

As I mention above, I completely agree. I will not accept blame for the affair. I will absolutely accept blame for my contributions to the breakdown of our marriage, but never for her actions.

Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.

I've never held my head higher in life than I am right now. It's a great feeling having my confidence back along with addressing my codependency. Those two things alone have made me realize my self-worth, something I questioned frequently in my last few relationships.

I actually performed an exercise with one of my therapists where we wrote down the character and personality traits of the last three women I've been with. There was definitely some overlap which helped me realize I was not the issue. In this specific case, in addition to the traits my wife shared with those women, she also lacks maturity and perspective along with having a VERY difficult childhood (I won't go into detail, but it is among some of the worst things I've ever heard) that she never dealt with. She refused to go to therapy and wouldn't even tell her own mother.

Knowing all of this has made me realize I can't fix others (my codependency, doh!), but I can fix myself. I've had numerous friends and family members who have known me for a long time compliment my changes, despite me never telling them I was making them. It feels good knowing they notice the changes because it shows me that what I'm doing is working.

[apothem]

Whoops, forgot to highlight the bottom response and I added a bit more:

Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.

I've never held my head higher in life than I am right now. It's a great feeling having my confidence back along with addressing my codependency. Those two things alone have made me realize my self-worth, something I questioned frequently in my last few relationships.

My heart has not hardened, although, I will admit for the first few weeks after my wife dropped the bomb I thought I would never love again, largely because I didn't want to be vulnerable again. But, I have since overcome those feelings. I believe we learn from our failures, not our successes, and this has been a very eye-opening learning experience.

I actually performed an exercise with one of my therapists where we wrote down the character and personality traits of the last three women I've been with. There was definitely some overlap which helped me realize I was not the issue. In this specific case, in addition to the traits my wife shared with those women, she also lacks maturity and perspective along with having a VERY difficult childhood (I won't go into detail, but it is among some of the worst things I've ever heard) that she never dealt with. She refused to go to therapy and wouldn't even tell her own mother.

Knowing all of this has made me realize I can't fix others (my codependency, doh!), but I can fix myself. I've had numerous friends and family members who have known me for a long time compliment my changes, despite me never telling them I was making them. It feels good knowing they notice the changes because it shows me that what I'm doing is working.

I'm confident in saying that I'm not self-righteous, at least not anymore. I used to always have to be right and believed myself morally superior to others because of stupid things like never having been drunk, never doing drugs or smoking, never cheating, etc. I've since gained A LOT of perspective through therapy, counseling, coaching, and talking with family and friends. I've come to understand that sometimes things happen in life that you can't control or in some cases resist. That doesn't mean you are any less of a person than me. At the end of the day, I believe everything happens for a reason and the universe will deliver those to me who belong around me.

[apothem]

Journaling:

I'm meeting her tonight at our cell phone provider's store so we can switch her onto her own plan. She's also paying me for last month's and this month's phone bill, car insurance, and health insurance.

In the back of my head I want to confront her so badly, but I know there's no point, it won't accomplish anything. I almost don't want to see her because of the betrayal I feel. I know I can forgive her in the future for the betrayal if she was remorseful, etc., but at the same time as each day passes I think of more and more things about her that just aren't good qualities.

Her lack of maturity, perspective, ability to deal with her own issues/problems, among other things irk me. However, if she can prove that she has grown as a person and is willing to address those things I may reconsider. This is due to the chemistry we had, the things we shared, and my overall happiness - I was genuinely happy when we were together (aside from some of my behaviors due to my codependency).

I know right now none of this matters because if/when reconciliation happens it won't be for quite a while. A lot can happen in that time frame. I could meet someone or realize my feelings for my wife have dwindled because I'm able to rationally assess our relationship now that I don't have an investment in it.

[sandi2]

If you have co-dependency traits, then that could answer why you are drawn to women who seem as if they need your help, or to be rescued. The damsel in distress.......whether it's their own immaturity, unresolved issues from their past, some threat or fear in their current situation, etc.

I have a sibling that was M three times. All three men abused her. All three had similar looks, personalities, etc. All three lived lifestyles opposite of the church-going life she knew while growing up. Our family members could see the resemblance in all three men. When I pointed it out to her, she agreed. However, if she ever knew why she was drawn to them and ended with unhealthy MR's, she never admitted it.

I said that^^^^ to say we are often blind to what seems obvious to those who do not have emotions attached, or the same psychological makeup. I applaud you for the massive effort you are putting into making yourself an improved individual. There is much hope for people who will admit they need to do something or to get help. But those who stubbornly refuse to read a book or talk to a therapist........are very frustrating to me.

I encourage you to continue doing what is working for you.

(((big hugs)))

[apothem]

Thank you sandi, that means a lot to me I don't want to be stuck in the same cycle and I acknowledge I have things I need to work on.

Last night went just fine, it hurt seeing her a little, but I essentially paid her no mind. I was short with her, but not unfriendly. She kept looking over at me, but I continued to avert my gaze elsewhere unless it was a question. The last thing she saw of me was me saying goodbye and walking away.

Those are very big 180s for me, especially because I was a doormat for much of our relationship, which isn't really me.

[apothem]

Just providing a quick update. My detachment process is going VERY well. I've been loving life and the person that was buried inside has finally come out. I'm naturally social and extroverted, but for the last several years I started becoming more introverted to match her personality.

I've been having a great time hanging out with friends and family and going out. I'm not sure if I stated this before, but she has completely removed all physical presence of herself from my house. It definitely helped with my healing process. I've been doing very well in IC and reading more than ever.

[apothem]

Journaling: Nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks. Still living my life, doing my thing. I'm still open to reconciliation, however I've been taking a rational look at our relationship and if I've been missing the person or the memories. I'm definitely missing the memories, but I also miss the person. I don't miss some of her behaviors, but I'm sure she could say the same about me. Neither of us have behaviors that we couldn't address.

All in all, I'm in a good place right now and optimistic for my future.

[apothem]

Hey everyone,

I've been having a rough last few days. She's been on my mind constantly. I'm still pressing forward with my life and I understand these things will happen. I'm not going to heal this quickly after spending the last 8 years together. Just thought I would journal it here for others to see my journey.

Things do get better. I'm in a significantly better place now than I was even last month. Don't give up even through the rough patches. Things will fall into place in the way they're meant to, with or without her.

[apothem]

Just posting to let everyone know I'm still here. I'm still going to therapy weekly and continuing my GAL and 180s. I haven't heard from my WW almost at all aside from a text exchange a couple of weeks ago.

She came by the house to pick up her mail and saw my electric bill was overdue. She paid half the bill and text me to let me know. I told her I appreciated it, but I had already paid half and was paying the other half on Friday and that the bill was misdelivered next door. I let her know she can skip her next insurance payment since it will equal out. She then said "Don't worry about it. It's not an issue. If you ever do need help in the future though, I am here."

I told her, "Thank you for the offer, it means a lot. I'll be ok, I just forgot because the bill was misdelivered."

She followed up with "I understand, I'm glad you're doing well then" and that's where the conversation ended. We haven't talked since, and that was in the beginning of April.

To me this comes off as helping because she feels guilty about leaving. She still doesn't know that I'm aware of the OM and the A. I still miss her everyday, but I'm finding it does get easier.

I recently just joined a bowling league with two of my best friends and that has helped me quite a bit. I've also been adventuring and doing things I've always wanted to do.