Kaizen with the samurai sword (as opposed to the 2x4)!
Ha. I thought that it felt combative, and that isnt really my intent. I think a lot of what you are doing is pretty good. So, I wanted to focus on the areas where I thought you could use another perspective.
Originally Posted By: Kylo
I know I'm struggling with not defending myself, and not getting riled up by her cuts.
One phrase that really helped me understand validation is this:
"Her perception is her reality".
So if she is offended by something you say, then you cant see that she took it wrong. You cant say that she didnt understand right. etc. If she said she were hungry, you wouldnt say "you cant be hungry because you just ate!" You cant dictate what she is feeling. Even if you dont agree with it, if its what she perceives to be true, then to her, it is true.
Originally Posted By: Kylo
I feel like I'm dealing with MLC and in the LRT. In the LRT part of the book, the instructions are very simple, and I have been following them.
Why do you think you are in LRT? I think you should follow Sandi's rules, but I dont think you are anywhere near LRT at this point. To me, that sounds like flipping through the book to find the shortcut one-size-fits-all answer. Shes still living at home? Theres still a good amount of interaction between the two you. That doesnt seem like fall-off-the-planet LRT to me.
Originally Posted By: Kylo
Most of it is about what not to do. what you are to do is GAL. BUT I do think that maybe I need to try to DO something else. She would complain about me not doing things around the house, so I will do more of those things. I have been cleaning more often. And now when I do things with the kids, I just do them and don't bother with filling her in. My sights are on painting some walls, since that is just about the only handy thing I know how to do.
Here's the most useful exercise I did. Id instruct you to make 3 lists of 10. In the first list I want you to put in 10 things that you like about yourself. These could be things W pointed out, things you like, things other people like, whatever. In the second list, put in 10 things that you dont like. Or that you want to improve. These could be things your wife doesnt like (for example, not being an equal partner in household chores) or things that you dont really like. In the third, put 10 things that you admire in other men. What qualities do you notice that you are drawn to?
Then you can set goals in how to incorporate those 20 things in lists 2 and 3 into list 1. How will Kylo2.0 be different than Kylo? You mention some ways you are working on self-improvement and thats good. I think this will help you find some other areas you hadnt considered. I think this is a good bit about what goals you can set for yourself.
Originally Posted By: Kylo
I have a hard time coming up with any, but I will make a goal of having her stat a conversation with me that isn't for the purpose of information. I know this is a blah goal, but she has been perfectly capable of living in the same house and not saying a word to me.
Heres where I have some disagreement with what MWD talks about. This isnt really a goal. You have absolutely zero control about whether this happens. And if it doesnt, does that mean you failed? To me, this is a mile marker to help guide your journey, not a destination.
How about how you will treat her? How you will react to her? How you will parent? How you will improve? etc. THEN you can observe her for those behaviors like starting conversations, etc.
Well I don't have the colored response figured out.....
My response to the quote begins at: color:#000099][/color]
You can test tags before posting, hit "preview post" before hitting "submit" and it'll show you a preview of what your post will look like. I do this almost every time because I am constantly screwing up the quote tags.
Kaizen, yeah I like those goals. Much easier to track. My goal is to make it a week and not snark or kid the W. It's so hard since it is kind of my thing, plus the resentment just comes out. But that is also what makes it a good goal.
Validating BS overreactions goes completely against what I believe, but I'm trying to do it anyway. Although, I have to say in the extreme it makes you ask: "getting along at what cost?" My answer is clear: my boys and commitment, but I doubt I will be able to do this long-term. I don't want to do it long-term, or maybe I should say that often.
As for LRT: I do think I'm there. If I had the funds, she would be out of the house, we'd have lawyers and be in D proceedings. She's absolutely convinced this is over. We don't discuss R. If I don't talk to her, she doesn't say a word to me. It is actually pretty impressive. She has never shown any doubt. I say all this and then she actually calls me today, but it was extenuating circumstances. I'll post about that later.
Kylo 2.0 looks like a good exercise. I'll do it.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
A small step that most likely means nothing, but she called me today to talk about her sitch. I think the real purpose was to faux complain about being in charge and having to make a tough decision and face the fallout from the people she would upset by the decision, (although once the facts were laid out, it was a no-brainer). I validated. I think she was also looking for my input/approval. Anyway, it is one more convo started by her than we've had in the last few weeks.
Finishing my workout then heading out.
A Kylo recommended LBS/WAS song: Hello Again by Amos Lee. The lyrics could fit either person. WAS is thinking, oh yeah this is my song, but so is the LBS. A good tune either way.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
What do you mean by "validating Bs overeactions"? Do you have an example. I've seen a lot of people equate validating with agreeing. I'm not saying that you need to agree with anything she says. Validation is about understanding that she has feelings and that they are hers. If she gets offended by your joke, then that's how she feels; you shouldn't defend why you were right and she was wrong because how can her feeling be wrong?
As for LRT, I still don't think so. To me LRT is complete no contact. There's just no way to be in complete no contact when you're living in the same house with two children. I think there are some principles to gain that are outlined in asandis rules and I wouldn't go out of your way to contact her. But this isn't a complete radio silence fall off the earth situation.
Keep posting and good luck on your goal. Are there other things you want to accomplish in the next week??
Kaizen, At this stage in DB we validate and don't argue and don't make our case. I guess I was projecting this long-term. You're right about the validation part. I guess I needed to make it clear that I'm not OK with validation and then just leaving it alone for the long-term.
If W was a "normal" reasonable person, it wouldn't be as big as a deal. However, with the BPDish, emotions=facts. So whenever me showing her how easy it is to disconnect the propane tank makes her feel like I'm asking her to do everything, it becomes I am asking her to do everything. Pair this with an inability to admit she is wrong and you can see how this R would lose all touch with reality. A mentally ill person would be creating the reality of our M.
But, yes, I can and should continue to validate if we reconcile. I just can't validate and then let the erroneous conclusion go over and over again. I can also work on my communication skills so that I'm not misinterpreted.
I just disagree that feelings can't be wrong, at least in the context of: I want to have a healthy relationship with a person. If that is the framework, then there will be reactions to events that are wrong.
An example: I was an ogre who "used" her and only wanted her for sex since I wanted to have sex more than once a month. I told her I read articles on the subject that said: do it even if you don't want to. And like MWD said, she ended up liking it every time, expect once that I can remember. But she felt I was an ogre. Sorry, I'm not an ogre. Her feelings are wrong, and there is nothing in my past that would support that conclusion.
This next week: I want to finish strong on my fitness since we are going to the beach on Friday for a week and I need to get ready for the trip, so not as productive of a DB week. I'll work on no snark, more support, always validate
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Sorry - I'm on my phone so these thoughts will be brief.
1) validation is an every day life skill. It isn't an approach to W for the short term.
2) let's say that objectively her feeling is wrong an you are not an ogre. So what? So you think YOU are going to convince her otherwise? And even if you do, the act of convincing her probably results in negative feelings anyway. You don't have to agree, but I find that trying to convince someone that they're feelings are wrong with your words is a fools errand.
3) I've also never found that using articles to persuade someone to have more sex is a good way to have more sex. Not saying that once a month is a healthy lifestyle. I just don't think the "this says you should do it even if you don't want to" approach is good either. Not sure the best method though. Someone smarter than me on here can probably help better.
So today my football team got good news: the opponent's starting QB would be out. This = guaranteed win in most cases. I was genuinely happy and excited. I ended up talking to my W a few times because I was just in "I love everybody" mode. It breaks her out of Ice Queen mode. I feel like this seems more natural, and more likely to have positive results than the "I don't talk to you unless I absolutely have to". I feel like that only makes me seem hurt and resentful. People say treat her like a neighbor, and this seems to fit more with the analogy. I may try it. It is just easier anyway, plus on vacay I'll be in "I love everybody" mode for a week.
Another positive sign, (I think) was that in my exuberant state I wasn't pining for her. I was looking forward to my life without her. The freedom, the reduced stress. I am already living much of it now. Really ever since my little epiphany I've been feeling great.
Saw the IC yesterday and I think she just thinks I should go ahead and get out. I know she only hears one side. I'm also thinking I might be talking too much. I don't seem to be receiving much insight.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
With vacation coming up, I'm excited and so are the kids. It is hard to tell with the W. I think her MLC has a touch of depression in it.
I talked to the wife about vacation things, and had my shirt off since I was grilling. I caught her looking at me. Now, I know that anyone with their clothes off is going to get looked at, but she has been such an Ice Queen that I was surprised to see a little humanity out of her, and maybe she liked what she saw.
Later I am playing some country music, which is something I never do. I used to turn up my nose at most of it. The groom at the wedding I went to mentioned what a fan of Eric Church he was, so I gave him a listen and liked it.
So the wife is surprised and says "You're listening to country music now?" and I said "I was exposed to new things at the wedding." "She responds with: "You met some country girl at the wedding?" I gave her a look, hard to describe: shock, surprise, don't ask that? It seems the few times she does talk to me comments about me having or getting a girlfriend make an inordinately high appearance.
Then she responds with a story about these ladies making booby puppets (making your breast into a face). I listen, but I think it is pretty hoosier, so I just kind of stare at her. At the end her troubled friend wants to make one and wants W to make one too. W says she would have no one to show it to. So, a possible clue, or a smokescreen.
So it could be the genuine happiness of the vacation, my attempt at détente, but now I need to be ready for conversation it looks like.
Finally, as if to remind me what I am "missing": I used to ask the W to trim the hair on my neck with clippers. It was like pulling teeth. She would make every excuse not to. She would do everything else instead, then when it finally happened she would complain. This was a 2 minute operation BTW. So a few days ago she said she would help me with it this weekend, instead of me paying someone. Didn't happen, no big deal. I ask about it tonight, she says OK. Of course she stays with both kids at bedtime until late, doesn't mention it and crawls into bed. Just funny at this point, I'm not going to say anything. I know, this is bad DB, I just can't stand wasting $$.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Then she responds with a story about these ladies making booby puppets (making your breast into a face). I listen, but I think it is pretty hoosier, so I just kind of stare at her. At the end her troubled friend wants to make one and wants W to make one too. W says she would have no one to show it to. So, a possible clue, or a smokescreen.
Booby puppets? If she could work on her ventriloquism, she could have her own Las Vegas show.
