Lost in Austin - Possible WAW

[woundedfool]

This is the crux of my struggle with this whole development right now. What's the WW mindset?

First, it does not matter what the mindset is, trying to divine/mindread or guess as what is driving her will simply waste time and energy and cause a great deal of pain and confusion for you.

Mainly because her mindset can/will change as the wind blows.

Remember, this process is about working on YOU. Lets keep the focus there

I am finding ways to GAL, outside of my business and our kids.

Good, like what?

[JDub]

Good, like what?

Went to a friend's house last night to drink scotch and talk, signed up for a informal education class at a local university, want to get to a happy hour this week but it conflicts with S15's athletic event. Looking for more opportunities to be away.

I am concerned that creating a lot of space also creates a lot of distance, and distance can potentially create more problems.

[sandi2]

The thing that's not making sense to me is that after she "asked for" a D at lunch this week - she asks a lot and I haven't ever consented, now I'm done talking about it - is that she bought furniture for our house later that day, we had a really nice weekend kayaking, eating out, listening to podcasts, and other "together" activities that she initiated. No sex but very pleasant. Why would a WW wife do that? Seems to me that if you've decided you're done, and verbalized it, you're really done. I'm really struggling with the mixed messages.

I don't know that she is or isn't wayward, until I hear more details. I wanted you to read the link in Cadet's post, "Help for the Newcomer LBH with a WW" (I think that's the title.....or close enough). See if it sounds like your W, or not. There may be something else causing her to act this way.

As for the mixed signals, as you called it, a H cannot interpret her peculiar actions to mean anything. It falls under "Believe only half so what you see", b/c it is not a sign that the M is on again or off again. It's not a sign of anything except your W is erratic. With her mood swings and her mindset..........you will not be able to understand it. Many H's spend endless hours and a lot of brain energy trying to figure out what it all indicates. You guys couldn't figure out women before she had a "problem".........so why waste your energy trying to figure her out after she goes wacky? (I'm saying this in a light-hearted way).

I'd like to refer back to your first post. What are the ages of you and W? Who decided your W should stop taking her anti-depressant meds? Did she taper off, or stop all at once? Wasn't this pretty close to when her mother passed away? And did you notice that was when her mood swings became more erratic?

Sex is in the crapper. Hasn't been good in a while, but it's pretty much non-existent now. When I bring it up she gets furious and tells me how much she hates me and wants a D, marriage is over. Says sex feels like rape to her. We talked about open marriage 3 months ago, but I realized that's not for me and told her.

This paragraph concerns me, especially the part about feeling sex is like rape to her. Has this come up in any MC sessions? Which one of you suggested possibly an open marriage? I am trying to wrap my head around saying she feels like sex is rape, in one sentence......and talking about an open M in the next. Maybe you will explain more to us, I hope, b/c I think this is very telling that there is a serious problem in the sexual part of the MR. May I ask if she has always been somewhat uptight in the bedroom? Maybe has some hang ups about sex? When did the intense anger begin?

Asked her for a lunch date on Wednesday, she spent 2 hours telling me it's over, she is so angry, she can't get past resentments, doesn't trust me, I don't trust her, will be better for our kids, she can't live like this any more, etc. I told her that I'm not on-board, this is not something I support. Keeps "asking me" for a D. But...when she got home from work, she said she bought two new chairs for our kitchen table, so we could have 6.

Well, she feels pressure when you refer to a simple lunch as a date. Maybe you didn't, but she picked up on something. I know b/c she felt she had to remind you of all the reasons she wants out of the M. That's her way of discouraging you from having any notions that she is on board with you........and her way of saying, "Back off, buster"! Same thing could be true about sex. Every time you press her about it, she feels she has to give a dramatic explanation in order to get out of it. It's not making love for her. It is a form of pressure.......and she does not enjoy the experience.

Some women who are high drive, can have sex with the H right up to the day they D. But for other women, they have to feel in love with their H (and basically everything be right with world) in order to enjoy the sexual union. And, if she has some inhibitions.........you might as well say good night, roll over and go to sleep.

I can't find any evidence that she's hired a lawyer or made any real steps to D, other than trying to push me into it, which I'm not inclined to do. No evidence of a PA either, although I have been looking.

I think you said something about her using the divorce as her default threat.......and a lot of women threaten D every time they argue with their H. It's crazy! If this fits your W, then she may never file, IDK. Something is going haywire in her, and I am not so sure it is a typical case of waywardness. I think there is more to this story.

Have you checked her phone for suspicious texting, calls at late hours and lasting a long time? Has she been staying up late after you've gone to bed? Notice an increase in going to "girls night out" to the bars? Any trips away without you, or staying overnight with a friend b/c she had too much to drink, or her leaving at night to run to the store for a loaf of bread, and be gone for two hours? Does she talk about a particular man at work? Or maybe she used to talk about him.....and suddenly stopped?

Has there been a noticeable change in her appearance, like her trying to look younger, maybe dress a little more provocative, wear more cosmetics, new perfume, different hair color? Has she taken up with new and younger friends, and it doesn't really include you? Does she leave the room to take certain phone calls? Notice her spending more time on her computer, and switching the screen when you walk into the room? If none of these check out or rings a bell........then she may not be in an inappropriate situation with a third party. I am interested in knowing who brought up the idea of an open M.

I know these are a lot of questions, and you don't have to answer them all. It's more to help you see if she falls within this description.

[woundedfool]

Good, like what?

Went to a friend's house last night to drink scotch and talk, signed up for a informal education class at a local university, want to get to a happy hour this week but it conflicts with S15's athletic event. Looking for more opportunities to be away.

Good on the community ed class. And I am not judging, but be mindful on the scotch and striving for happy hour that is necessarily the healthiest of options for GAL's. Are you the kind of person who can go to a bar with friends or coworkers and only have a soft drink?

I am concerned that creating a lot of space also creates a lot of distance, and distance can potentially create more problems.

Yep, sounds counter-intuitive... but it is indeed correct. Space and distance right now are a good thing.

Have you read DB or DR yet?

[JDub]

Wrote this before Sandi replied, so I'll answer her questions as well in a subsequent post.

I'd like to be more fully transparent here on what's going on. Some of this may not matter given where things are...but it might. Both of us are 48.

I'm an entrepreneur and business has taken much longer than planned to get off the ground and give me a steady paycheck. I have one now, things are rolling but it took like 5 years. During first 3 years, W kept saying "don't worry, i make/we have plenty of money, you'll be miserable at a big company, do what makes you happy." So I did. She has rewritten this history about the timeframe - but she got really resentful of the business and my a) lack of income, and b) not shutting it down after year 3. She kept looking for a timeline on when things would turn around, and I just didn't know...I did know that I didn't want us saddled in debt, so I had to find the right path, which I have now. Business almost went under in March, it was super scary. But, no complaints about money since paycheck in May.

During this period, WW had a dying mom. Then she lost her job that she liked (lots of travel to exotic places although she hated her team). Mom died, she took at job at a company that's in her wheelhouse but she's not really happy there either. No business travel to speak of. My first real paycheck coincided with anniversary of her Mom's death.

At this point, which was this past May, she was ready to call it quits - and so was I. I was so angry at feeling abandoned by her when things were going so badly for me business-wise that I was ready to end it. I set up a separate bank account for partial paycheck deposits, and I met someone casually and slept with her while W was out of town. Haven't told anyone that, including W.

She had been feeling guilty over lack of availability for sex, gets so frustrated when I ask, and didn't want me to be celibate. We decided to explore an open marriage. Sandi, it was very much a conclusion that both of us kind of thought about, following a New York Times story about the topic. I think we were looking at it as a way to stay together but still pursue our individual needs. I looked at a few other women after that, but quickly found that I didn't want to sneak around, that's not who I am and not the life I want. I want to be in a stronger, happier R with my W.

Fast forward to last month. Trying to coordinate delivery of some furniture, I looked at her emails for the timeframe. Found a name I did not recognize, but the email content was totally innocuous. Person lives literally on the other side of the planet in one of these exotic places, and is much much older. I asked her about it one morning, she got really uncomfortable, but said that I get jealous and there's nothing going on. He's a friend, he's connected in a field that she used to work in, and she likes talking to people. They talk on Skype. If he ever comes to our town, we'll all go to dinner.

Since then, I found a small spiral notepad that had been lying on kitchen counter for a month and flipped through it...his name was in there, but what was written was kind of nonsensical. I asked her about it, very gently, last Monday to find out where her head is. First she was furious for "going through her journals" and told me that I shouldn't do that. Said she had no idea what's in there. I handed it to her, said it was laying out, maybe you could explain it. She read it, was super embarrassed, and said that she wrote it when we had considered an open marriage, and this was her thinking through it on paper for what it would mean to her, and his name was one that came to mind. She said she was humiliated that I saw it, and she shouldn't have left it out, it was not to hurt me.

She still has conversations with his guy pretty regularly from what I can tell...only during work hours (that'll sure make the new job secure...) and he lives nowhere close to here. From what I've seen in emails, there's not a lot of "there" there. But I'm really stuck on it, can't figure out if this is a true OM, an EA, a fantasy, or what. If I ask, she keeps insisting that it's nothing and gets angry that I'm not hearing her.

I'm not looking at emails any more, other than mine. And I'm definitely not looking at journals. But I do admit to wanting to sabotage this. The fury has now moved from "I'm worried about money and your selfish business" to "you're so controlling and looking at my emails and journals and I have so much hate for you." She can't keep a calm head to talk, emotions are going a million miles an hour in a million different directions.

I do want the M to work, and feel guilty for looking at her stuff. As long as we don't talk about the R, we have "detente." But she's really mad, ready to end it. We had a really nice weekend together doing "couple things" and family things with the kids, it was kind of a dream and both of us enjoyed it. We still share a MBR and a bed. She wants me to see her "marriage therapist" with her, but I told her I will not attend a "divorce roadmap" discussion.

So...both of us are anxious around each other, there's a lot of love there, but a lot of bad feelings and guilt both ways. Is the best thing for me to do still to detach? Do I disclose anything about what I've done? I can't see how that will help things, but I'm all ears.

[JDub]

What are the ages of you and W? Who decided your W should stop taking her anti-depressant meds? Did she taper off, or stop all at once? Wasn't this pretty close to when her mother passed away? And did you notice that was when her mood swings became more erratic?

She decided that she had enough with the meds. Wanted to think more clearly and worked with her doctor to taper off. She started the step down about six months after mom died. She went from being sad in talking about R to being angry, that was the big shift. Said now that she's happy to feel her feelings, which I do support.

BTW related to this - minutes ago I got an email from insurance company about a claim today and called her - she backed into a car in work parking garage and was in more tears than I've heard in a long time. Does not know why she is so emotional but is taking a personal day and really appreciated my call.

...especially the part about feeling sex is like rape to her. Has this come up in any MC sessions?

Has not come up in MC so directly. Occurs to me that this may require some clarity on my part: Sex may be vanilla with us but is not violent or anything like that. I'd actually prefer a bit more variety, but even talking about it triggers her feeling violated. Yes she has been uptight in the bedroom, I think we both have, for a long time. Both of us have had partners in prior relationships where we haven't been so tense.

Has there been a noticeable change in her appearance, like her trying to look younger, maybe dress a little more provocative, wear more cosmetics, new perfume, different hair color? Has she taken up with new and younger friends, and it doesn't really include you?

She's always been trying to look younger . She's been working out a lot - says it's her way to manage anxiety while off meds - and looks fantastic. That's it though, no going off to bars with girlfriends...we spend a lot of time with kids, the dog, each other.

I appreciate the folks here helping to explore this. I don't think it's typical but I don't really know.

[JDub]

Are you the kind of person who can go to a bar with friends or coworkers and only have a soft drink?

I'm not a heavy drinker. Good for a cocktail, maybe two with friends, but I don't drink solo and I know my limits. Some of my good friends like to drink scotch and smoke cigars as a group, and I participate but forgo the cigar. But it's fun from time to time!

[doodler]

JDub,

What about blow, speedball, toot, wicky, woo blunts, wild cat and Little Debbie Star Crunches?

[TBSakaJ9]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JDub]

Right now the hard stuff sounds pretty good...