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#2752934 07/25/17 12:40 AM
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http://divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2751984&page=11

So carrying over from my last thread

Own it- I don't know why I'm afraid to do either of those things. I KNOW H will refuse to give me the keys back as he's paying for everything here.

If I change the locks he will create a scene here in front of the boys but that's what I did last time after he moved out.

So should I not say anything to him? Don't tell him I know where he was at X house with that woman.

It is against the law for me to change the locks because he lives here and all his things are here.

Last edited by Cadet; 07/25/17 03:31 AM. Reason: fix link

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Not R advice, but as far as the locks:

Change them to one of those bluetooth locks. He can get in with his smartphone (and access can be limited by time/day) and/or give notification when he is there.


Me: 43
M: 10y
S:15
ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
W moved out 2/18/13
Filed for D: 2/17/13
Got DB: 2/20/13
Got DR: 2/23/13
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D Final Dec '13
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T you said before that you could change the locks and he could change them back. That is not against the law.

If you change the locks and he breaches the peace by pounding on the door and the cops show up, they will just say it is a civil dispute and they can't get involved.

This guy has effectively moved out. It is only prudent to change the locks. If he wants, he can get in line for the 90-120 hearing and you can counter-move for support. There are only "wins" for you here if you show him your strength and your resolve.

Please don't kid yourself that the boys seeing him freak out once is worse than seeing him disrespect you every single day. They are young. They are going to get over this and probably won't even have much of a memory of any of this.

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Hi T! Congrats on passing your webcam encounter, too. You are amazingly strong and I'd love for you to feel confident enough to apply it in every area of your life.

The following is meant as constructive feedback for you:

You did a decent job on the phone with him. I think the piece that I'd change is your lack of recognition that he's trying to drag you into the same old "I'm not where you think I am" argument.

I loved the "not a hotel" piece, but I do wish it were an active declaration rather than a reactive/defensive statement when he's trying to drag you into an argument.

An active conversation coming from strength might look like "H, you've left. You don't want to be married anymore, and I'd like the childcare arrangement to start reflecting that. I'm not comfortable with you sleeping here since you left the marriage and I'm especially not okay with you arriving so late and treating it like a hotel. It's time to start thinking about you finding somewhere else to live and getting on a regular childcare schedule. I'd hope you'd find a place with enough bedrooms for the kids and a suitable environment for them. Until you can do that, how about we give you every Saturday with them and you can come and pick them up and take them out to do something, but they still sleep here until you've procured housing? I'm happy to write all of this down for your records."

And that would happen when there is no argument or tension happening.

But you've been avoiding that conversation and I don't know why. If I had to guess, it's because you're scared it will drive him further away. But, T, should you be trusting old fears and anxieties, or logic? Because logically, he's left the marriage already.

T, I'm a bit alarmed that you didn't see your old patterns creeping in on the phone call with H. First, why answer? Let it go to voicemail. If you had to talk to him, the minute he was trying to dredge up the same topic that were part of your marital arguments, you should have said "I'm not interested, H. Where you spend your time is water under the bridge. Do what you want, my only concern is what directly impacts me, and that is your coming and going from the home."

Instead, we saw you take the bait because you so needed to launch the "I'm not stupid!" language at him.

T. Look at all that you have accomplished in your life. Of course you're not stupid. Why does it matter so much for you to be able to say that to him? Why is it necessary?

I wish you'd work to let that go. You still care so much what he thinks of you, and you are very wrapped up in him knowing that you know. From my recollection, that's already been established, and thus bringing it up again is nothing but pursuit, despite the fact that he's the one that called you. Because you were defensive and reacting to him. Giving him a reaction makes him feel powerful, and gives him the negative attention he's seeking from you.

Let him go. Drop the rope. Let him see, via your actions, that's what you're doing. You don't have to answer his calls. If he doesn't have the kids with him, there's obviously no emergency that needs your attention. And if you do end up in conversation with him, do not even entertain anything that has to do with the M, like where he's spending his time.

Here's what matters: He left. Now, living in that reality, what do YOU want? Because what you want matters. What he wants matters only a tiny bit, and it has to be about the kids.

I really want you to think about this. You've now given him more evidence that his coming and going bothers you, but that you're feeling too meek to do anything about it, so my prediction is that he escalates the outrageous comings and goings, since he knows it bothers you. You did not address his behavior from a place of strength and confidence where you are not afraid to actively advocate for yourself; you did it out of reactive defensiveness, and I anticipate he'll be trying to provoke an argument by doing what he knows bothers you.

It's getting to be way past time to address appropriate boundaries and formalizing a childcare schedule.

If you're worried about finances, he could pull them no matter what you do, and you've already delayed filing and pushed out that waiting period of 3-4 months.

The most powerful thing you could do for yourself is to stop worrying about what he thinks of you and what he might do, and become your own biggest fan and advocate for yourself. Also, formally protect yourself from what you know he's liable to do regarding finances.

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She gets snappy and you call her out on it?

That's not working. Stop doing that.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Oops--wrong thread, sorry.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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T,

The advice you're receiving is absolutely INCREDIBLE. I wish I would have had these contributors when I was going through my struggles! I know it may be difficult to apply it. You're obviously so close to everything, emotionally. I remember how some posts in my situation didn't make much sense until after everything was over. It was then that I realized how everyone was spot-on.

We're all telling you the same thing: if you want to set boundaries, that's freaking awesome! But why did you wait until you were reacting to something he did that upset you? Practice some of the actual quotes that cadence has given you as suggestions for a boundary talk with H, and then set a boundary. She's steering you exactly right and giving you actual things you can say to H.

I also agree with cadence about your ego getting the best of you with the "I'm not stupid" nonsense. That sounds very reactive. T, if you're going to put it out there that you know things, *really* drop allllll those cards on the table! Tell him: "I know where you are. I know where you've been. I know who you're talking to. And I've known it all along. You've lied to me about that ... and your motorcycle ... and that package that came to our front door ... and about who you're texting. And I've put up with it, hoping a little time would help you come to your senses about what you're doing AGAIN. But clearly, you're nowhere near that place, and my patience has run out, waiting on you to get there. Let's talk about a visitation schedule and child support, please."

Boom. Done. Checkmate. Move on.

Will he try to argue? Probably. Tell him he can speak once you've said what you need to say because you've heard nothing but lies coming out of his mouth for however-many months - and it's so bad that the only person who believes him anymore is himself. So IF he wants to speak once you're done, he can find his way to the nearest mirror and talk to it. Because YOU are DONE listening to his garbage and pretending you don't know the truth.

IF you're going to go nuts on him, go nuts like THAT ^^^. Immediately. Before he does something else that makes you react to him with the "I'm not stupid" stance.

Dig in both heels and stand your ground!

Congrats on last night's assignment! See? Anticipation is usually far worse than reality. (That goes for all areas in life.)


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whatever you say in person, if anything

(B/c I would write it out in a paragraph due to my concerns of escalation)

keep it BRIEF. WAS's cannot hear more than few sentences unless it's lavish praise.

Anything negative or controlling or non complying or adult like requests, that don't jive with their world view, is all

"blah blah blah 'nagging negative distrustful wife forcing me to leave so I can finally be happy" - noise.

So, keep it brief and stay on message. Do NOT be diverted by his responses b/c they do not matter.

You are giving him information, NOT having a conversation, so his response is not needed.


Unless his words relate to visitation, there's nothing else for him to say at this point.

It's NOT about the marriage or how you "never" trusted him and how tired HE is of not being trusted, and where ever else his verbal exit ramps lead. It's about your living arrangements.

Besides he's buying a house so what's going on with him in your home anyhow?

Looks exactly like he is trying to avoid abandonment accusations and doing some image management for himself.

Don't be diverted. Stay on message...keep it short.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Hi everyone,

thanks for reaching out at the advice. Wounded - my mom ordered a new lock set but I am waiting to do this per legal advice.

I saw a L today, going to file for D. paid a partial retainer just to get it filed and get the emergency support court dates set. I told her to give me a few days to finish the semester, spend some time with the kids before I go back to work next week, and next week I will get her all the information, that my heart needs to catch up with my brain and absorb everything.

She wants me to file, have him served, and not tell him it's coming. So that's my plan. She said i should have a conversation with him that is light and does not make him think I have retained legal advice. Something along the lines of H, this isn't working for either of us right now and I think it would be best for everyone if you were found your own living arrangements. I would like you out by next Friday, I will be changing the locks at that point.

I will be getting more money based on figures than he is paying now. She is very matter of fact and no BS... and she said H is obviously going to come out ahead because he makes a lot more money than he did coming into the relationship but that she knows I will be good in the long run.

I was doing good today until I got a text from H and I realize I am not detached enough.

H; I am going to my parents Wed Aug 24 to Mon Aug 29.
M: Are you taking the boys?
H: No, they have school
H: I was planning on going by myself this time and I will take them the following month up there for my bday weekend
M: Ok, it is okay if they miss school if they want to go.
H: Well now I'm not even sure if I'm going to go, plus I don't have a lot of money so I may not go and since I don't have a lot of money I won't be doing anything fun.

I didn't reply.
I know what he's doing. He bought concert tickets for a big country star (Who we see EVERY year for our anniversary together) and going for the concert. He is not going to stay with his parents. I wanted to SCREAM. I am SO SO SO sick of this. I am sick of feeling like this. That he is just free as a bird to go sleep with and engage in relationships with whomeever he wants while I'm left to pick up the pieces of our life and care for our children.

I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up, being gone all day at school and then spending 2.5 hours in the lawyers office. I am overwhelmed.

My heart and brain are fighting each other. I feel like this is it, once I file he's gone forever and I am eliminating all chances of him coming back.

And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy. He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.

He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.

I am spiraling down into these thoughts, which I recognized would happen after seeing the L because it's a harsh reality of what is about to come.

I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind. I am so heartbroken that he can go and be intimate on all levels with another woman while I am at home with our boys and newborn.

I wish you all could meet with me IRL and shake some sense into me.

So please don't get frustrated with me. I am having a really bad day. I am emotionally and physically exhausted. THe L today said she has no idea how I'm doing this all and she told me there is a special place for people like my H. Good news is she said it won't take 90-120 days. She said we will have a court date within 30 days. She said she will offer him to continue to pay what he is paying or we can go in front of a judge and he risk paying more.

So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home? I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.

And just say, like cadence said,

H, you have left and made it clear you do not want to be married anymore. It's time we set a schedule for childcare. I am not comfortable with you sleeping on the couch especially coming in late at night. I hope that you will find a suitable environment to take the boys to. Until you do, you can have the boys every other weekend and can return them here to sleep at night.

Question is, Do I go ahead and drop the bomb of everything I know or wait til a later time? I struggle with needing to tell him I know about this concert and that it's the exact same behavior as last time.

I am so sick of my dad telling me that I need to stop acting like there's a chance he's coming back. That he was never coming back since I found out about the flowers.

It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.

I just don't want to do this anymore. I want to climb in a hole and hide. I don't know why I deserve this again.

Thanks to everyone for listening, I know it's rough to read the same garbage.


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T:

Stop, breathe, and know that it is going to be ok. This is going to get better. It will hurt less. You and the boys are going to survive, and in time thrive. I am so happy you found a lawyer you like. It makes all the difference.

DO NOT say anything to him about what you "know." That is the same old fight, same old dance, same old dynamic. Limit the conversation to what you talked about with the lawyer. That it is not working, that he has until Friday, that you are changing the locks and he can see them on a weekend day until he has appropriate accommodations to have them overnight (don't get into the details of what that looks like).

The need to tell him about the concert thing is again you need to let him know you are smarter than him. I get it, I used to tell my H everything I knew the second I knew it. Now I tell him nothing and feel that I have much more power. I love that he has no idea what is going on here.

Do not in any way suggest or hint that the filing or service are coming. Let him think you are meek little T waiting for him at home. In that moment you will regain much of the respect that you have lost in this process. Only time will tell what he does with it. You cannot control how he responds.

I know you don't feel like it, but you really can do this. You already are.

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