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A Message from Michele
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NYGal Still Working on It #2749228
06/30/17 08:59 AM
06/30/17 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,415
Somewhere in the middle
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NYGal Offline OP
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NYGal  Offline OP
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Somewhere in the middle


11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker
Reconciling since late April 2016
Don't give up until it's time, then move on
Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: NYGal] #2749231
06/30/17 09:12 AM
06/30/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,415
Somewhere in the middle
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NYGal Offline OP
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NYGal  Offline OP
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Regarding my previous post and the responses about getting over my anger toward ow...
Like BluWave said, I think it's particularly difficult because ow is the head of Human Resources here, so her reach extends throughout this place. She has dated at least three but maybe four or more people at our place of employment (was married to one). She has no boundaries and when she sees an opening that might help her and she jumps right in, no matter who she hurts.

I can't do anything when I see her in my building or in the parking lot or in the stairwell or in town. Or when a meeting invitation comes for my boss and ow is on it. Or when I have to schedule or be in a meeting with her (always with others). I can avoid thinking about her Saturday and Sunday, but as I'm arriving at work on Monday it all floods back. I don't want to see her. I don't want to hear about her. But I have to.

And it doesn't help when W hides her phone and doesn't keep promises not to call her "about 100% work related business". That happened this morning. As we agreed, she told me that ow emailed her last night, and even showed me the email a little bit ago. She agreed not to call her as ow requested, but rather to email her back. But she called her cell phone instead. So I don't know what to do about that. I keep trying to clarify the agreement and insist that she be honest and keep her promises. But she's stubborn and will do it her own way. Over and over. So we struggle. And not to be dramatic, but I suffer. I do. And I wish with all my heart it could be different.


11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker
Reconciling since late April 2016
Don't give up until it's time, then move on
Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: NYGal] #2749232
06/30/17 10:27 AM
06/30/17 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 347
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annab74 Offline
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NYGal, with the utmost love, none of us are victims of our circumstances. We always have a choice. We can't control other's behaviors but we always get to decide what we're willing to accept, and how we allow others to treat us.

OW is still a presence that is causing you pain because W is allowing it. She could leave her job. You say she has been there 35 years and "is an institution?" So what. Aren't you, your marriage, and your future together more important than any job? And even if you both determined it was important for her to keep that job and you were willing to endure OW's daily presence for the greater good of W's career, W should certainly have no issue maintaining the boundaries you have mutually agreed on for your comfort. Except she doesn't. You ask her to sign a written agreement and she says naaah. She knows she doesn't *have* to follow the rules because there are no consequences either way.

You might get mad and blow up, but W knows you're probably not going anywhere. She has all the power and she gives you just enough scraps to keep you going. I'm sure W loves you, but she is taking advantage and not treating you fairly. You say you wish the "over and over" struggle could be different, but you are the one who has the power to stop it. It stops when you realize how much better you deserve than what W is giving you. I'm not at all saying you should walk away from W, but if it came to that, she needs to know you are capable of doing it. The only way you are ever going to get any respect from her is by standing up for yourself WITH ACTIONS and letting her know her behaviors are not OK.

You are a prize, NYGal. Hold that beautiful head up high and be strong.


Me: 43, Him: 40
Married: 21 years

Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: annab74] #2749243
06/30/17 08:35 PM
06/30/17 08:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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Sotto Offline
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I agree with annab and would also say:

Anytime we find ourselves thinking 'I wish she/they would change' or I wish 'this would change' - we need to remember that the only thing we get to change is ME.

So, that may be about reframing, perspective or it may be about boundaries, action or something else.

It strikes me that you have spent a lot of time trying to 'control' outcomes here...perhaps it is time to try something different? What would your other options be do you think?

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: Sotto] #2749260
07/01/17 02:52 AM
07/01/17 02:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 207
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Stormchaser Offline
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I'm sorry to say this, NYGal - but NO job is THAT important. I'm sure there's exceptions to the rule, such as the possibility of losing your house or benefits, but that's rare IMO. If you're THAT good at what you do, you can find somewhere else to utilize those talents.

I was gaslighted by my MC, exIC and W for almost a year, all of them telling me that her job was a specialty, that quitting would only make things worse because it would show that my wife is a quitter - all this crap was merely excuses. Only when I started seeing a new IC did I start to realize that had she quit immediately, she would've found a new job in that year. All that year did is set us back horribly, with me wondering daily what kind of interraction my W was having with OM at work. Sure, she tried to reassure me, but seriously....NC at work? My new IC helped me realize that ain't happening.

When I found out OM got promoted and would be my W's boss, that was it. Line drawn. My W knew that wouldn't fly so she resigned immediately that day. You know what? I'm SO relieved now.....its done. Yes, we're broke. Yes, we're maxed out on credit. And YES, our marriage can finally recover, which it is. Now that there's NC, I can finally calm down and refocus on us. No more temper explosions, no more worry. Done. Kaput. Fini.

I should've drawn that line last year. This is something I will always regret. Don't be that person, ok?


Me: 52
Her: 48
2D 26 & 16
M: 25 years (together 30)
EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016
Admitted SOME physical but no IC.
We know that's a lie.
Status - tryin to R
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: Stormchaser] #2749261
07/01/17 03:17 AM
07/01/17 03:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 275
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cadence Offline
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Ugh! NYGal, now she's telling you she'll handle something one way and then does exactly what she'd said she wouldn't do?

I'm extremely troubled by this. We can call W a people pleaser, but why does she care more about what OW thinks of her than what you think of her? Why does OW's directive to call her matter more than your request that information be transmitted by email, despite OW's preference?

It's almost like W is treating you like you are her child, rather than her partner. As if she is the ultimate decision-making authority, and she'll nod and smile at your requests, and then she'll quietly overrule you.

This is death by a thousand paper cuts, NYGal. Each incident of W's rebellion isn't a big deal on it's own, but the pattern is the problem. And I think that's not coming across in counseling - pure speculation here - because time is spent on the latest incident.

The fact that she wouldn't sign the contract seems to mean that W finds it absurd that she'd be accountable to you. You always feel as if you are accountable to her, but she doesn't return that respect to you, especially when it comes to OW.

I don't know what's right for you, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be thinking it was about time to take a very large stand about how I will allow myself to be treated. When you reunited, I don't think you ever got to the point where you were willing to live without her, and I think that's allowed the "affair era" power balance to still be present. She gives you lip service and then does what she wants, thus prioritizing OW's feelings above your feelings, and you're just supposed to deal with it. That's not okay.

Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: cadence] #2749280
07/01/17 06:26 AM
07/01/17 06:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Sotto Offline
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The other thing I wanted to say is that reading Codependent No More really helped me and (as a recovering 'nice girl') there are two questions I ask myself:

Does this work for me?

What do I need to do to look after myself in this situation?

I can't tell you how much these questions have helped me. If you asked them of yourself, what would your answers be?

smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: Sotto] #2750447
07/10/17 10:47 AM
07/10/17 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,415
Somewhere in the middle
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NYGal Offline OP
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Annab, what you said is very wise. No, I'm not willing to take a stand that I can follow through on if it's something like - you do this or we're done. No ultimatums because we know that doesn't work. So I don't know how to regain my power. I did read Codependent No More at one point, but I guess it didn't do it for me.
W continues to say one thing and do another. Yesterday ow emailed her (LOL - apparently mildly chastising W for not including her on an email about work stuff.) W and I agreed that there was no need for a reply. I thanked W for telling me, said that's exactly what I hoped our agreement would do - make it easy for her to tell me whenever there is any contact, and we went about our day.
But then this morning I asked, anything else from ow? So W said she had emailed her back promising to keep her on any related communications in the future. So that set me off again. We agreed you wouldn't respond and you emailed her back? And more importantly, YOU DIDN'T TELL ME LIKE YOU AGREED TO??? That was followed by a threat to "spend the night out" and then a full day of silence until she called a little bit ago saying she'd spend the night at home. I said, "Do you really think threatening to spend the night out helps me trust you?" She admitted that it doesn't, and admitted that she "should have told" me about the email. But I never get the answer to the question: "Why do you keep breaking your promise about telling me whenever there is any contact?" She continues to hide her phone and change the password so I can't really see what/when/how or if they are in touch. And then we fight about it. It's really the only thing we fight about these days. I keep calling her on it and making her life miserable when I find out she has lied because what other recourse do I have???


11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker
Reconciling since late April 2016
Don't give up until it's time, then move on
Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: NYGal] #2750448
07/10/17 10:49 AM
07/10/17 10:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,415
Somewhere in the middle
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NYGal Offline OP
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NYGal  Offline OP
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Somewhere in the middle
And yeah, she can't just up and quit her job. She's a couple of years from retirement and it's not that easy.


11/4/15 W revealed EA/2 months later became PA with co-worker
Reconciling since late April 2016
Don't give up until it's time, then move on
Be patient, strong and kind but never a doormat
Re: NYGal Still Working on It [Re: NYGal] #2750539
07/11/17 01:47 AM
07/11/17 01:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 275
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cadence Offline
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Hey NYGal!

Boy, this is frustrating.

Let's think about this another way. Is it possible that W is getting something out of the secrecy other than the two extremes of wanting to not hurt you and wanting an attachment with OW?

When I was with H, he had an ex-wife with whom he needed to communicate about the kids. She would use the communication as a route to constantly try to pick fights. She would over-communicate; almost daily messages about two teenagers was clearly not necessary. She was constantly manufacturing perceived crises with the kids in order to have a reason to communicate with him, and trying to call meetings with school personnel and therapists, trying to get him in a room where she'd proceed to talk about her feelings. When he didn't want to participate in those meetings, she'd reply, cc'ing the external people, shaming him and telling him that his unwillingness to parent with her was harming the kids.

Yeah, she was a real treat.

H would sigh, and show me the messages, and we'd decide what would merit a response (things that were actually about the kids and not her feelings/anxieties.)

I looked forward to the day that we could be free of her, when the youngest graduated from high school.

Now, looking back, I see that he didn't see it as I did. After 20 years with her, he had no idea what life without her spun-up-chaos was like. He wasn't reaching for it as I was. He was sitting on a fence, trying to bide his time and keep both of us happy with him. It looked like taking a stand, but it wasn't. Because as she piled on more and more harassment (shortly before we split, every message of hers had curse words and insults about him as a father), he lost the will to keep us his boundaries with her.

I've recently had the revelation that allowing her intrusions was something that was actually working for him. In my case, I think he liked that having this, er, Rabid Sister Wife type figure in his life because it allowed him to not have to fully commit to me.

I think he liked the power dynamic that she created within our relationship. He could choose to tell me or not tell me about her latest antics, sometimes shielding me from whatever it was because he "didn't want to argue", even though I'd worked really hard not to be reactive to her BS. He had this secret communication and this bond with another woman with whom he had significant history, and he could pick and choose whether to tell me about it. And he liked that.

Is it possible that your W is doing something similar? Does having this career loyalty to OW and excuse to communicate with her, and then a choice to tell or not tell you make her feel powerful? Does it allow her to feel in charge of you and your relationship? Does it make her view herself as the real adult and you as some sort of dependent? And, most of all, does it create a natural obstacle to her full commitment to you?

Maybe none of this applies, but the above was a revelation to me and I thought I'd share smile

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