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25, I think I've solved it.

You know, the one thing about support and dividing assets is that we can't have families forced to choose between abuse and poverty. I get that. There must be a minimal living arrangement that will allow them to protect themselves and their children.

But we know that the vast majority of marriages end for other reasons. So here's my plan. We need a MAXIMUM walk away clause as well!

Wait- hear me out- For a spouse that walks away from the marriage, they must move into a dormitory like walk away shelter. This can be funded by the LBS and/or the LBS's estate and/or the government (but it won't matter, keep reading). They get their clothes, car, and up to $5,000 in possessions and $5,000 in emergency funds. Everything else stays with the LBS.

Now, if a spouse cheats, then the non-cheating spouse can kick the cheating spouse out INTO the cheater shelter. Boom, here's your 5K, have a good life!

And we could even work something like that in there for physical abuse as well. Open hand half-hearted slap one drunken night, you're on the watch list bro. Bruises or blood drawn, GTFO! No soup for you!

The best part is we could even label them like the sex offenders list. Maybe the dorm would be like a big condo, with a huge Donald Trump sized "Cheaters, Abusers, and Vow Breakers!" sign at the top.

No one would go hungry. No one would lack for medical attention or shelter. But we would once and for all eliminate the lack of financial and social consequences that enables this type of destructive behavior. That's why it wouldn't be hard to fund. Who would want to bang their secretary if they knew they'd lose everything? Would they really want to go out for a drunken night with their old high school 'friend' from facebook if they knew it would be off to the cheater's mansion? I THINK NOT.

Problem solved. You're welcome world. smile

(But we aren't made of stone, are we 25. For your WAH, we would make sure he gets a penthouse dorm. Something with a good view. Maybe he'd even be able to see his old house from up there...)


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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[quote=beatrice]This suicide/murder story is so very sad.

It reminds us of the very strong emotions that swirl around the break-up of long term marriages and how much pain and suffering they cause.


Yes...(Good to see you Beatrice...sort of, if you know what I mean)

Both d28 & d19 are seeing T's and d19 is on meds. (She did make the dean's list however). S31 is, imo, taking on too much of the "big brother" role. Calls me almost daily.

He wrote a statement to help me undo the waiver I signed when I got out of the hospital. (The one my MD h handed me, after I'd been in a neuro unit & was simply screwed up). What s31 wrote was all true but horrible to read so I can only imagine how it must have felt for him.

Point is, even though 2 of my kids are out of the house on their own, they are wounded and so of course is the youngest. And I see a T, I'm in a DivorceCare group and have a ton of support nearby. Actually I just laughed a bit,

b/c the only one NOT in therapy of any sort, is h... No divorce is painless.




The view that 'these things happen' needs to be challenged. My (adult) children's lives, and mine are forever changed. We are not living in the past, and have all forged good lives, but the past casts a long shadow. And since my xh is still not happy you have to wonder!



how can one know the WAS is not happy?

Not sure how one would know how their ex is doing emotionally other than their words, which we cannot trust.

From my h's FB posts - he is SO HAPPY...with the "love of his life" which he posted within 6 weeks of sep and yes, I can see the crazy, over the top piece of that.

( I would not post that if I had an ex boyfriend of 6 months, just b/c I'd know it was hurtful.) So he's over compensating AND OR rubbing my nose in it AND OR lacks the empathy gene.



Of course I am not advocating that unhappy and dysfunctional marriages should be forced to endure, but the idea that it is normal to divorce after 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years or more of marriage does need questioning.


I So agree. Yes it does need a lot of questioning. H did zero IC maybe ever...

I worry how Our children will react when they face inevitable challenges in their own m's. That haunts me. My Kids think I stayed too long.

My kids supported my filing, & think that i stayed too long. That Is painfully bittersweet. They saw things I missed or looked away from, which is a huge part of my therapy/IC.
Or what if I had left earlier?

What could I have recovered in my new life, then? Or what might h have learned and then maybe changed?

What if H and I had had an authentic discussion (without any shame, a huge problem for h)? What if we had done that - years ago, what might have been? What could we have salvaged?

What if h had known then, the cost of his choices?



maybe if the WAS's knew the future ramifications of their choices, or thought it out realistically, they'd make different choices.
How would you make that happen?
That might be the type of counseling we could hope for. I mean, it's not that different from those financial projections the CPA's and CFP's do.

Get a shrink or therapist to say "statistics show that children of divorce in THESE situations tend to --- "thrive/survive/take a dive" under the following conditions..." etc.

OR "chances are that your finances will suffer forever OR for a decade, dating will/will not be what you hope for, AP's will reveal flaws,
your kids will never, ever see you in the same light, your companion whom you once loved and probably could have worked things out with, is not really even your friend anymore and guess what?

You will miss them someday
- and your "family" vacations and graduations and weddings and grandchildren's births - will not be approached or enjoyed or experienced the same way or at the same level as they would have been...some people will blame you, some will resent you the rest of your life..and they will have problems in their r's, some of which are related to seeing your choices..and after your death, you will Not be remembered for being a great h or father but for leaving them..."

Wow, now that I write that out, I guess I feel better in one way. The LBSer who does not fall apart, must remind themselves of the above facts that are Not true for them.
They will remember us showing up for them.

It's the WAS who has to live with the second thoughts and doubts and looking over the shoulder to see how the LBSer is doing...

whereas we have no choice but to live well.

Mostly, when I go down the rabbit hole of "What if we had honesty back then...??"

I think if we had an authentic fully truthful discussion, h would have told me things that would have killed me to know.

I'll never be sure, but I now feel that way. (e.g. "25's not my priority. I need to get my way or to live life as a single man - but I know how that sounds, so I'll keep dressing it up as something else...")

And I bought the dressed up excuses. I did not want to see what seems obvious to me now, in retrospect. I did the heavy lifting for most of our m.

OR maybe he'd have made some sort of moral change (that seems very unrealistic at the moment.)
If he had rearranged his priorities we would not be here. I would not have filed for divorce - I really was committed.

Now that I'm not trying to fit into his dreams I can figure out what mine are. I mean, I want to embrace what life threw at me.

What healthy choice do I have?




It is easier to break up a long term marriage than it is to unilaterally dissolve a business relationship in many jurisdictions.


well, we/they THINK it's easier...but I take your point.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I like this Zues

cool okay I'm just going with the revenge rabbit hole for a minute!!

Maybe have the WAS's see us eating our meals from their windows , while they have their gruel...no salt or sugar allowed for them. (Turns out, I like gluten!)

AND when friends choose sides, they have to choose ours and shun the WAS!

For the conflict avoiders we just give them what WE want when we want to , b/c we don't want "them to feel uncomfortable" being expected to express their opinions.

Oh and They can wear shirts that say "expect no meaningful information but seething resentment, from me".

I think scarlet letters are okay on clothing - with numbers or an infinity sign next to the A if it's a repeat.

Oh and for those who deliberately hide or basically steal marital money

they get a big $$$
on their shirts...


Liars could wear shirts that say "believe nothing I say"


For the utterly lazy who do no heavy lifting in the m, b/c they like sitting on the couch drinking a beer watching the game, or "napping" while the kids need them,

maybe an actual photo of a sloth with the shirt that reads "Sloth sits/lays here"...

and for those who unilaterally choose to have no intimacy in the m b/c they "just don't feel like it...for months/years"

maybe a sign saying "I'm celibate & expected my spouse to be that way too" sign

Or a photo of a nun with an "oops, I forgot I'm married!" picture.


Okay, now I'm laughing.

grin


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Posts: 13,511
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I know your post wasn't about revenge, but for WAS to think things out...
but then my revenge fantasy took over, and it got "funner".

And I laugh at myself when I admit how petty I can feel. it's a way to identify it and hopefully, diffuse it.

For now, it just makes me laugh at (myself) and the energy I give h - and hopefully that will help me lessen the space he has in my head and heart.

cool


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I know your post wasn't about revenge, but for WAS to think things out...
but then my revenge fantasy took over, and it got "funner".

And I laugh at myself when I admit how petty I can feel. it's a way to identify it and hopefully, diffuse it.

For now, it just makes me laugh at (myself) and the energy I give h - and hopefully that will help me lessen the space he has in my head and heart.

cool


You were joking?

Great. What am I going to do with all of these t-shirts?!?

Hang in 25 and have a great weekend.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
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Quote:
how can one know the WAS is not happy?

Not sure how one would know how their ex is doing emotionally other than their words, which we cannot trust.


Well 25years, I tend not to write what I can't provide evidence for!!

There are many many signs (these guys may run fast and hard at first for after a few years many of them begin hanging around the edges of our lives again down the line.)

Since I am not writing War and Peace I won't give you all the details, because I don't have time to write them!!.

However, two quick points. My 3 children (and remember we are now nearly 12 years post bomb drop), have some sort of contact with their father, strongly encouraged by me. There were years when they didn't and now they feel sorry for him. Their consensus is that he isn't a happy man.

I still work with a therapist periodically - this is something I choose to do for a whole range of reasons, so all of you Newcomers, don't worry - therapy this far in isn't necessary or mandatory!

My xh contacts me periodically on the flimsiest of excuses, and yes, I have had apologies, masses of regret, but also a lot of self-justification . . . . anyway, I share these with my therapist and his professional view of the email contacts and their content is that they come from a man who is deeply unself-aware, and very very unhappy. But also extremely manipulative.

So on the evidence, and short of my xh saying he is unhappy, I believe he is. I don't need him to be, and in many ways I wish he were happier

I don't think they run because they are unhappy, but because they are depressed covertly, and/or not getting what they think they want out of life.

Initially they are on a high, or at least many of them act this way, and tell everyone they have never been happier. I can't say how genuine it is, but my xh has told me in the last couple of years that everything I have predicted about him leaving and the consequences were 100% right. He even asked me what was going to happen next. I have a pretty good idea, but didn't think sharing it would help anyone.

He never did marry first OW and his current wife appears to be very like his mother.

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Originally Posted By: beatrice
Quote:
how can one know the WAS is not happy?
Not sure how one would know how their ex is doing emotionally other than their words, which we cannot trust.
There are many many signs (these guys may run fast and hard at first for after a few years many of them begin hanging around the edges of our lives again down the line.)

However, two quick points. My 3 children (and remember we are now nearly 12 years post bomb drop), have some sort of contact with their father, strongly encouraged by me. There were years when they didn't and now they feel sorry for him. Their consensus is that he isn't a happy man.

My xh contacts me periodically on the flimsiest of excuses, and yes, I have had apologies, masses of regret, but also a lot of self-justification . . . . anyway, I share these with my therapist and his professional view of the email contacts and their content is that they come from a man who is deeply unself-aware, and very very unhappy. But also extremely manipulative.

So on the evidence, and short of my xh saying he is unhappy, I believe he is. I don't need him to be, and in many ways I wish he were happier

I don't think they run because they are unhappy, but because they are depressed covertly, and/or not getting what they think they want out of life.

Initially they are on a high, or at least many of them act this way, and tell everyone they have never been happier. I can't say how genuine it is, but my xh has told me in the last couple of years that everything I have predicted about him leaving and the consequences were 100% right. He even asked me what was going to happen next. I have a pretty good idea, but didn't think sharing it would help anyone.

He never did marry first OW and his current wife appears to be very like his mother.

I couldn't agree more with this ^^^^&

Especially the bolded part.

The escape and avoid running for a false illusion of happiness that they can never find.


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Beatrice,

I hope it didn't sound as if I doubted you. I just asked how we'd know.

Yes - my ego is a huge part of this curiosity absolutely. Me & my ego have been given a huge blow and I cannot pretend I'm "fine" or detached.

Another part of me (codependent? Or just Enmeshed after 35 years??)

is concerned for him, and of course for my kids. I hope someday they will have better r's but frankly I think my ego damage is why I'm okay with their lousy r's for now.

Plus h's being such a $hit with the div process (canceling a life ins policy on him that I pay for?? Only one reason - to be mean. Good grief, smh).

I know how petty and bitter ^^^ this sounds. I'm not proud of it. And I don't want to feel this way. I'm angry, I'm hurt and disgusted. I feel very betrayed.

And yes I believe in time I'll detach better and see h in a more sympathetic light, which I suspect will be pity. There is no "winning" for h b/c regardless of how HAPPY HE (FINALLY) IS, he will never be seen in a good light thru our kids' eyes.


Today my youngest sent me a Happy Father's Day message (for raising her on my own).

That was well intended I think, but it was sad. (And sad for h). And I know s31 is disgusted by h's getting me to sign the waiver to joint accounts (you may recall, I had been hospitalized for seizures I'd never had before, was in the ICU for a week, and a week later on new meds. Pretty much impaired, which is what s31 attested to. Said his "Doctor father took advantage of his mother and there's no way mother would have signed any such thing if it were not for being impaired" -

so Hard to read b/c it was all true and made me feel like an incompetent, which I guess I was, legally speaking.
cry

ANYHOW


All of^^^ that makes it hard for me to imagine h backing down in ANY way from his "it's your mother's/25's fault". H must have told no one up on the tundra what's going on b/c honestly, how do you tell people you did THAT?

So Do I want h back? Obviously not as he is now.

AND in truth, too much damage has been done for me to recon even if he had the seismic change required. It's not a realistic hope - too many steps to take on HIS end and too many doubts about our past on my end (what was real/Another lie??)

So what is it I want from him, going forward (other than a good settlement and less hostility)?

Deep REMORSE...and how much time & energy am I willing to give that "hope"?

My goal is to give this^^^ "ego driven hope" zero energy.
Which is essentially full detachment.


I must learn not to care at all about him, other than being the man who fathered my kids... Is this goal attainable and if so, how?


Beatrice if your h is married again, can you imagine being his wife now, knowing he's regretful?

I think my h will marry his OW b/c if that r fails, he will have lost too much to keep blaming me. He will have lost me, our kids and our history and for what? Some of his friends have reached out to me, too. I'm sure their wives are not thrilled with his leaving the first time I was really sick, and for an adventure.

Plus he's been SO PUBLIC about how happy he finally is...that loss might be too much for him, but here I go again, giving him headspace.

SIDENOTE - what is with the PUBLIC announcements of OW? I swear I don't get it.

H almost never posted about our family (I'm not sure he ever did other than maybe a graduation picture, once or twice). Suddenly he's posting about his "honey meeting his family!!" and calling her "the love of his life" and kissing her at the beach we went to every year.

Who does that? Okay okay I'm better - off the ledge...sometimes realizing how weird that is, helps me. B/c I know it's weird.

and it's Painful as he11, but also damn, it's also very strange for a guy who was m and STILL IS, for 35 years...to post as if I never existed.

I'm redirecting thoughts b/c I know what's in my head also affects what's in my heart, and we all want some peace in our hearts.

Getting there.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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PS

I'm (nearly) positive H is not where he wanted/expected to be financially. Yes he blames me 100%.

I don't know if that's depression or frustration or insanely delusional or all 3, but he was irritable and nasty the past year we were together. So I take your point - though he's certainly missed his calling as an actor.

I guess for h not to be "there" - at this stage of life - wherever "there" is, and to lose his family/m too, well, I don't know how he'll deal with that.

And I probably won't ever know. I don't think I'll get the massive apology - too much pride for that.

Detachment...yes, working on it!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,502
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Hi 25,

Sorry for how you're feeling. I'm glad you realize you won't get remorse. I never got an apology or any remorse, the closest I got was a "sorry you feel that way" which is really a non-pology.

I think the public declarations by H are as much to convince himself of how happy he is as they are to brag to the world about his happiness and freedom. I'm sure he is unhappy at his core, so he's trying to convince himself otherwise by projecting this public persona.

Please try not to project his decisions onto you. He's not doing these things to hurt you or to spite you, or to hurt your kids. He's being self-serving and thinking only of himself. There's nothing else on his landscape other than what he wants. By projecting yourself onto his landscape you're making it so much worse for you.

I realize it's a process you have to go through so of course keep venting until you decide it's time to stop.

With W I remember when I realized that I had finally dropped the rope. I didn't even notice it happening, but one day I realized that I literally didn't care what she was up to or what she was doing, and that if she wanted to come back the answer would be a firm "no" no matter what she said.

She noticed when that happened and she got very upset but it, and accused me of not caring if she existed or not (she was pretty much right, but I don't know why she was upset by it).

You'll get there, eventually H won't be on your landscape at all.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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