Wading through v. 2.0

[cadence]

Hey Own,

Thanks for responding. Your advice is always a relief to me.

I remember reading your numbered recounting of your conversation with your ex, and the few about his OWs being versions of his mom were so right on the money. I still don't know if H had someone in the wings, but I new he didn't intend on spending much time alone. I've always been fascinated at the women he dates, as they all are self-absorbed and... not very attractive. (I've met a few of them and it's always horrifying.)

Thanks for the reassurance about H. Though his actions fit a N, some things still don't fit. There is a type of N called the 'vulnerable' or 'covert' N, (versus the more grandiose version, which seems to fit your H.) Or it could be that being surrounded by Ns and never processing his grief leads him to take on familiar actions.

I believe that he wanted to hurt me. I talked about how much I loved that house, how my pets loved that house, how excited I was to garden this summer. He knew I needed to focus on school and couldn't have upheaval in my life. And he very clearly wanted to take it all away from me.

I do think there was a breakdown. I can't really describe it, but it was as if his limbs were moving through jello rather than air. He'd sleep on the tippy edge of the mattress, like he was a vampire sleeping in an invisible coffin, lest we accidentally touch. (But came to bed every night, even the night he told me that we were over and we were selling the house.) One time I leaned down to pick something up from a table near him, and he visibly flinched. He acted as if he needed to get away from me in the house, but I was never chasing him (I recognize he needs space when he's mad.)

It was so bizarre that I stick on MLC.

You are probably right about the legal actions as a method to try to engage me. There are several points throughout this process where I've felt baited, like he wanted to trigger me to chase him or yell at him or something. We've done this once before, and after things are over, I don't stay in touch. It actually helped him look at his crazy ex through fresh eyes, because she will seize any opportunity to contact him. So if he can't see me as me, and just the females he fears, then that makes sense.

I also think about how terrified he was to approach any sort of court situation with his ex, and how much he wanted to keep it out of court because "women always win." So here he is, trying to take me to court, and I'm much more clever than his ex on her best day? What? How?

I may consider a conversation, but I think the time for it would be after he and his L read what I file. My L did tell me that I shouldn't contact him, but if I hear from him, it's okay to talk to him. He said don't give anything away or make any agreements and just listen to him.

Though I'm not sure what I'd learn. I've heard his side over and over again. I was a mistake. The house was a mistake. He wants his down payment "back" and should not have to incur any financial loss because he did all of this for me and it was never enough.

[cadence]

I haven't updated in a while. It's not a great one.

In an effort to avoid running into H, I make lunchtime trips to his favorite grocery store. (I know he goes in the evenings or weekends.)

After I checked out, I was walking out and saw his teenage daughter. She'd just walked in and was smiling and laughing with a friend of hers. She didn't see me.

I'm happy that she's happy, but gosh did that enhance the "outside looking in" and "life goes on without me" feelings. I'm sniffling at my desk at work and not doing a great job of hiding my tears.

On the legal front, I had to respond to H's complaint/summons. I went to my L's last Monday and worked through it. We also decided to file a counter-claim. H's complaint laid out a very factual, but limited, picture of what happened. My L and I think he wasn't honest with his L about what happened. She probably heard a version of the "Cadence and I just grew apart and she was so shocked when I told her that she moved out. She doesn't understand that the house needs to be sold and/or doesn't want to sell it so she can hold onto me."

And with that viewpoint, there seemed to be very little willingness to offer me anything that didn't make me take a loss. His imaginary real estate refund process is still happening.

I feel like if this were a normal ending, he'd have the maturity to say "Boy, I'm in a pickle. I'm going to make her a fair offer so that we can end this." But no, he will only offer me a paltry amount, since he is determined to get every penny back. I feel that's enormously unfair, given that he ripped the rug out from under my feet and this was all his doing. He went into an investment with me, and he's leaving it early. That's his right, but why expect to be fully reimbursed?

So we filed a counter-claim. It was filed with the court a week ago. We did it to give a full picture of what happened, and to hopefully compel his side to get real with the offers.

Though I read through it and nodded my head at what was in there, I still feel rotten. Perhaps the titles of the sections were what got to me: Abuse, Attempt to Defraud, Breach of Contract, etc.

I talked about him kicking down the locked bedroom door. I talked about his attempts to get me to sign documentation that confused the type of deed we have. I talked about how he (and his kids) profited from me while we were living there. I talked about how I filed for my property tax relief for the house, while he filed his for his personal condo (in his magical thinking, the house would sell quickly and he'd just move back there. I knew that wasn't likely, and reminded him he'd save much more if he filed for the house, but he refused. So the tax bill likely went way up in July.) Meanwhile, I couldn't file it for my personal condo (the one I couldn't move back into because H started his freakout/MLC whatever on the same day I had tenants sign a year lease.) so my tax bill is going up. He also closed out a joint account we had, or changed the password on it, so that I can no longer see nor pay the mortgage bill online.

The one thing that felt okay about this is that it has him listed as Plaintiff and me as Defendant. What I filed was very aggressive, but at least I can feel alright that I'm defending myself, here.

At least he gets to see in writing that I also want to sell the house. That's not the issue that is holding this up.

We have a long holiday weekend coming up, and so far I don't have plans. I've made a bit of a connection with a cute guy, but it's long distance and we just message one another. Some friends found another guy they want to set me up with. I'm not sure I'm there yet (and perhaps my tears today are a sign I'm further from "there" than I thought.)

I got out of town last weekend to visit friends. That was a little tough for me. She's a stepmom friend, and she met her husband around the same time as I did, and they followed a similar course. But he still loves her and she still belongs. I tried to just be happy for them and not make it about me. The unfamiliar environment helped.

But I'm in a pretty negative frame of mind right now. Part of it is hormonal, but another part of it is just plain pain.

He just... discarded me. He's never shown any doubt about that. (Well, maybe once, when out of nowhere at our second counseling session when he said he'd thought about staying together but living apart, but that's it.) There are no "touch and go"s. Nothing.

He could not wait to be rid of me and the life we'd built to find his fantasy woman, where there are no differences and she likes everything he likes. Also, she's self-absorbed and neurotic like his mother, but in a super sexy way.

He adored me until he blew up and didn't. And now I get random peeks from the outside looking in. That was my family and now it's not.

[Thornton]

So sorry you are struggling today, Cadence.

I wish I had some advice but all I can offer is my view from the outside.

Your H clearly has issues that don't have anything to do with you. He's dysfunctional and has proven it time and time again, don't allow yourself to forget that.

I struggle too with feeling discarded but I have to constantly remind myself that W has issues that have been there since before she even met me.

Cut yourself a little slack.

[cadence]

Thanks, T.

I've heard absolutely nothing from him, so it's easy to fill in the blanks when I'm low and get down on myself.

I also feel terribly guilty for filing the counter claim. I feel like I've been pushed into an adversarial role and that's painful.

I know he can't stop and doubt himself, because then it all tumbles down. And maybe new romance is keeping him high on life. I don't really know.

[leahsue]

Oh dear, sweet, wise Cadence. Just this morning I realized you had "gone dark" on us , and I tried to pull up your thread and say "Check in with us!", but for some reason I could only find where you'd posted on other threads. (I did the same with PsySara, but found her's. ???) Anyway, I've been thinking about you all day since that happened, and I'm so glad you posted.

BUT...... it makes my heart heavy to see your post. You know what? It IS JUST.PLAIN.PAIN. And you know as well as anyone there's no shortcut around it. I hate, hate, hate that we've all been treated this way. WE are the good guys. If there was any way I could, I'd come to where you are, we'd do something crazy for the holiday! (Ownit told me on the phone she booked herself a whitewater rafting trip. How awesome does that sound???)

You need to crawl out from under the rock and make yourself some plans. YOU KNOW those long, empty weekends are the worst! They set us back emotionally. When it's hardest to make yourself do it, that's when you need it the most.

Rejection $ucks. Just plain and simple.

I wish I had more to offer you, to help you through this day. Words sort of fail me right this minute.

But just know you are loved, and you ARE going to come out happy on the other side of this.

(((((((( Cadence )))))))))

[OwnIt]

Cadence, I'm sorry you are feeling low and pushed into a place you would rather not be. However, you haven't been left much of a choice. The way in which he has distanced and separated himself and refused to work this out amicably is just cruel. With any luck his lawyer will see that this is going to be messy (read expensive) and suggest a resolution that gets everyone out as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, do focus on you and good times and try to keep this in the back of your mind. Legal processes are very slow and if you try to ride the tide of this it will make you seasick.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks, T.

I've heard absolutely nothing from him, so it's easy to fill in the blanks when I'm low and get down on myself.

Sorry Cadence.

This^^ resonates. Maybe If we insist on renting out space to the soon to be former spouses, perhaps for 5 minutes we could try envisioning it NOT being so perfect.

I read an article written by a 2nd wife, who had been the OW to her h's first m. She says she wishes she had known before, what would happen.

She wrote about the pressure to always exceed the prior wife b/c of the comparisons she feels happen, and she writes that she is resented by her h now, every time something goes wrong, or when his r's with his friends or children and family, are strained.

She said she was never really accepted by her step kids - who blamed her for blowing up their family, and the awkward moments that happen at every special occasion or holiday and apparently always will...are her fault too.

Finally, she worries that she did a terrible thing to people she never met, which we know is true.

I don't think I'd want to be an OW. And I mean that.

And your h can only spackle over cracks in the surface, so much.

I also feel terribly guilty for filing the counter claim. I feel like I've been pushed into an adversarial role and that's painful.

He put you in an impossible situation. And he drew first blood. So here you are

Facts are facts. If he kicked a door down, he kicked a door down. If he lied, he lied, etc

Part of your DB work and your own self care, is defending yourself and hiring an advocate. Our adversarial system is based on the presumption that 2 advocates arguing their cases will elicit the truth. Let's hope so.


I know he can't stop and doubt himself, because then it all tumbles down. And maybe new romance is keeping him high on life. I don't really know.

Yes -you are correct. And I have learned 2 other things.

1) Your h blew up a family and for what? A lot is riding on his version of reality, even when it's very distorted. There is also the massive impression management he must do.

To THEM, its not necessary to live life with a moral compass, HOWEVER it is important to them that they appear to be. . Same for looking "happy, now". This is their impression management.

I see you are struggling with the rejection you feel (discarded/replaced) and with the idea that all is well in their world. Would it be better if his daughter was sad?
Of course not, she's doing her best. My guess would be that you are missed and that maybe your stbx h is scrambling to cover that up or treat it with more praise or gifts.

Don't be gas lighted.

You have to remind yourself of the difference it makes when a person jumps from one r to a new one, right away.

My s31 said he'd "never want to be the rebound person" b/c it is such an insecure position. Would you want to date a man who just recently divorced?

I'm leery of any guy who is within a year of divorcing, and I simply won't date a man who is only separated. That's for MY protection, not just his and not just his ex wife's.

It is plain weird to hook up with someone who just left a r. And it's wrong to date a man who is still with his wife.
I cannot even imagine dating a year ago, when we first sep. Can you?

So we are not dealing with people like us, so don't "go there" about how great his life is and how you have gaping holes in your life. Fill the gaps and detach from his "impression management show."

They rushed too fast for their own good, never mind ours. Just from a risk standpoint, I would not have rushed it. It speaks for itself that your h and mine, did.

The reason it's easier for them to deal with all this loss, is because they are not facing it. That doesn't mean there is no loss and it does not mean they can avoid it forever.

There is a lot they are not processing.

I know it's not a contest. I know all we can do is deal with our own side of the equation, and I believe we can and will be happy when we make it happen.

God knows I'll try.

You are not alone.

[cadence]

Hey everyone,

Not too much to update. Legal process is chugging along. Ex will have to respond to my counter-claim, and I'm very interested in seeing what sort of BS responses he'll choose.

I used to help him with his high conflict ex-wife's legal aggression, so if there's anything left of "him" in there, he'll know that I surely have evidence of the things that I claimed.

After he received my response and counter-claim, his attorney sent over another settlement offer. Inexplicably, they are offering me the SAME amount I've already turned down once. ... Seriously? Not even a dollar more?

I've been avoiding dealing with that because I.just.can't. I don't understand this insanity and I've checked out because I have other things to focus on.

If things were as he claimed, and we "grew apart" and he just realized we couldn't stay together and we needed to sell the house, someone sane might make a decent offer, realizing that what happened wasn't my choice (nor was I given any say in the matter) and therefore I shouldn't be financially penalized. However, that would be far too sane for my situation.

Nope. He never dealt with the controlling women in his past. He never dealt with the fact that he was his Narcissist mother's emotional caretaker growing up, but also the scapegoat. He's got so much anger about that, but Narc mom also taught him that negative emotions were unacceptable. He's all bottled up and he projected all of his rage onto me, the one person who would tell him that he had every right to be angry at his history. He pushed me away.

No word from H. I'm okay with that. If I hear from him, I think it will be in a few years, once his kids are grown and he's had to do some self-reflection, and he's over his efforts to try to replicate the good parts of Cadence plus all the amazing qualities that some self-absorbed crazy women can offer him. The man wants a mother right now. He doesn't want a partner. He wants a sexy mother figure so he can correct his childhood.

An unexpected development is that I've forged a connection with a new guy. 46, no kids, and we've got crushes on one another. He seems really sweet and emotionally available. He tells me stories about his family, and he loves his mother and grandmother. He went through a LTR breakup earlier this year, and he's throwing himself into training for a marathon, which I find really admirable. He was married in his twenties, and though it didn't work out, he and his ex are still good friends.

We're just talking at this point, since he's 5-ish hours away. However, there's a good chance he may be interested in moving to my area in the not-so-distant future. We're moving slowly and we still have yet to see if we're attracted to one another in person, but I'm thankful just to be talking to a nice man who is interested in me.

It is so refreshing. It's making me see how much I had to walk on eggshells for H, and that he wasn't seeing me for me. But no matter what, this guy (or any guy) is not my savior. I can save myself. I can be happy all on my own. I'm still GAL and making sure I don't fill in the unknowns about this guy with positives, but, I gotta be honest - he's knocking it out of the park so far. I don't have to wonder; he's consistent and kind.

I've been talking about it with my IC to make sure I'm not rebounding or using this guy as a crutch, and she says I have a really good perspective on it.

I recognize that I have a history of choosing emotionally unavailable men. This guy's kindness and consistency are something that makes me feel physically uncomfortable at times. But I recognize that is 100% about me, and I'm powering through, because I deserve to fall in love with someone consistent and kind. And maybe that's what will happen.

Onward and (hopefully) upward.

[leahsue]

Hey lady,
WOW! Your H's consistent history re-writing never ceases to amaze me. He should write fiction. You "grew apart", but only one of you moved. It would be so helpful if the wayward partners would feel the need to seek professional guidance during these seasons, whether together with us or not.

I know the legal system gets in no hurry. That's another reason I hesitate to jump into it yet. Yet another lesson (that we didn't ask for....) in patience. Sometimes I just want to scream "Enough new learning, already!" I know you're wise enough to just let it keep churning though. It's the rest of your financial life that's at stake here, so hang tough.

So...... a new fella, huh? I'm curious since you indicate that you two haven't met in person yet, did you join a dating site? Do you have plans to meet soon, to test the waters of attraction? Of course you know what all your "mother hens" on here will say...... take it slow. I think we all become so very protective of one anothers' hearts as we see each other begin to stick our toe into the scary waters of future relationships. That's a testament to the power of these forum friendships though. It's amazing to me, and what a gift to be able to form these friendships online. I feel I know more about some of you people than I do my own close friends. We hear so much these days about the danger and pain that anonymity online can bring, and that's true, but there's a flip side to that, and that is the freedom to find a safe place to bear our souls, and find fellowship and courage in that openness.

All of that to say- you be careful, girlfriend! Baby steps and trust your gut feeling, but still, enjoy the freedom and confidence that any new friendships can bring, after this season of brutal rejection and heartache. We all deserve to feel the warm sun, after the darkest part of the night.

Something interesting just dawned on me as I typed those last words. I have a very special aunt who I am particularly close to. She doesn't live close, and she has NO time boundaries with phone conversations- so we communicate since BD mostly by email. Plus it's been painful for me to do phone calls b/c I get so emotional, so email for me has been best lately. Rather than repeating myself so much, sometimes I'll copy and paste some of my thoughts from this forum into emails to her. Since these last two visits, I shared (probably over-shared) some of my posts with her. She is normally so very supportive of me, and she has a real gift of encouragement. But she has BLASTED me (of course, in a loving, kind way, but still blasted) for some of the things I've said, like "I didn't need to just dump all of my pain at his feet during his visit". She exploded on me- why in the world would you not??? He has trampled all over you, he's not worthy of you, how dare he, blah blah. And I let it hurt my feelings a bit. But I just realized something. She does not have the benefit of the mindset of DB, nor the hours and hours of testimony of how this works, nor has she had relationship rejection in at least the last 40 years. If I had to name the most perfect devotion in a couple, it would be she and my uncle. They have always adored each other, and find it horrifying that a person could betray their life partner. (Well, so do I, for that matter, but it looks a little different when it happens to you, and also when you spend a lot of time on a forum like this, and see the heavy traffic of broken hearts appear daily.) So I realize that we all work from our own perspective, and that is still her reality. The sad thing is, it also reminds me of the long term damage that H has caused in his own relationships, over and above the one with me. They would do their best to welcome him back in, if that time came, but it would never be the same. There's the danger in over-sharing your intimate heartbreak with family. You maybe can forgive and learn to trust again, but I fear oftentimes, family cannot. He has burned several bridges like that with my family and close friends, and that would just be one more strike against any possible reconciliation down the road. They would try, I know, for my sake, but I sense their anger and distaste when his name comes up, even if they don't vocalize it.

Oh well, enough rambling about me. Didn't mean to chase that rabbit here on your thread. Gotta run anyway to head to IC.

You keep doing you. One can see from your early posts to now, how much you've grown in strength and grace, without so much fear of the future. Guard your heart, but not TOO much, because all relationships come with risk. Otherwise they wouldn't be deep enough to bring that great joy that can come from them.

So good to hear from you. If you can't find me in the future, come over to MLC. I really think that's where I belong. I'm certainly not brand new to this any more.

[leahsue]

Cadence,

Check in, girl. I've been thinking of you and need an update!

I hope you're not posting because you're too busy LIVING.

((((( Cadence ))))))