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AJM

I don't want to hurt h's career. One of the reasons for that is purely selfish, the other reason is b/c I detest looking vindictive & don't want to have regrets related to anger.

Plus, I think h's behavior speaks for itself. So do his fb's posts. Much will come out in the pleadings I suspect.

Either he will be haunted by the damage he has done to our marriage, me, and our family/children, or he won't. Guilt, remorse, shame, missing me OR and our family or at least our son...will show themselves, or they won't.

I don't think you can inflict that much pain on people who love you, unscathed.

OR you can...

If h is literally incapable of empathy or remorse, then in my head, I know we are better off without him. My guess is that he'll continue to work on his R with S, and will stay in financial contact with d19 b/c she needs her tuition...(that's according to her, not h. She says she expects never to talk to him again after college. That is sad and not victorious to me. Just sad).

I do have the regret that this past weekend, I did not defend my h to my adult children and in fact, I b1tched about him.

I'm not proud of that. The Gross Div Crap I went through on Friday (kids came up Friday night) was exceedingly disturbing.

A bit humiliating but mostly infuriating...and then I saw the kids and yes, I vented...

sigh...

I also told them I am torn between wanting to be authentic with them b/c that's important to me in this life,

and wanting to protect them and to be above this type of discourse.

But s30 and d28 are grown...and now I'm justifying doing something i don't believe in, which is bad mouthing the other parent.

Damn. I regret this^^. Worse, S30 may have to testify at our hearing.

Ugh


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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No one is perfect, 25. We all make mistakes, it's hard not to when hit with some intense emotions.

Learn from your mistakes and do your best to not repeat them.

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25, your children are not little ones anymore. They know you are hurt, they are to but believe me, your H' s actions and your anger is totally comprehensible. Don' t beat yourself up. On your next visit with them, you can apologize for your venting. They will understand and I am sure hey have their personal opinion of the man he is AT THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT!!! Stay strong and humble. You are doing great!!

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I agree with the others, 25. You'd be the first one to line up to any of us with the reminder that we all mess up, but have to get back on that horse.
Try not to be so hard on yourself. You knew it was going to be a sucky weekend (beside getting to see the kids) anyway. How does one prepare their heart for more pain? I don't think we can. We just have to lean into it and come out the other side. Your kids KNOW. Maybe it wasn't your finest moment, but hey, cut yourself some slack. You are a well-loved, classy lady. Never forget.


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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Oh 25! I missed that you were back here because I never come to Newcomers. Plus I've been going through some big time dating drama of my own in April. You'll find me lurking on Surviving the Big D.

Your story is sadly similar to mine - reconciliation followed by a repeat 10 years later. Narcissist husband (something I only truly recognized after the divorce.)

I have always tried not to badmouth my ex, but my kids are not stupid, and his behavior with them since the divorce has gradually eroded their relationships with them. Again, as a narcissist, he could not understand any of their mental health issues, or anything that didn't reflect well on HIM (as a narcissist, their value lies in how they make HIM look). I try to avoid badmouthing him while still trying not to invalidate their very real feelings about him. One son has not spoken to him in a year and a half.

Too bad you are not still here in California, I'd take you out for a (virgin for you) margarita.

I'm sorry he's being such a jerk in the divorce but judges do not look kindly upon guys who suddenly resign their jobs while going through a divorce (especially after he moved up there specifically to work). Have you considered hiring a P.I. in Alaska to see if he's working under the table somewhere? That might be worth spending a little money to check out.

Also, if you think he was hiding some significant money before, a forensic accountant might be in order.

I know you're still in the painful part of this, but know the following:
- it's delightful not having to walk on eggshells around a moody narcissist anymore.
- every man I have dated since my ex thought I was fantastic and couldn't understand what my ex was thinking.
- I have a lot more time in my life for other things without my ex in it. (Btw I just got my first official recording credit, playing Vibraphone and glockenspiel on my professional musician friend's new album - little ole amateur me playing with big-time serious professional musicians! Something that would never have happened without my divorce.)
- I LOVE having total control over my finances, without my ex's impulsive financial moves. And even though my income with alimony is less than half of his, I get the feeling my finances are in better order than his. Check out the Mr Money Mustache website for some inspiration.
- My career and newfound musical hobby life have flourished since the divorce.
- Since the breakup of my marriage, little things - or even big things like the current dating implosion disaster on my thread - seem like small potatoes in comparison. I feel kinda invincible - like the worst has already happened, that thing I tried so hard to prevent, the breakup of my marriage - and I survived and thrived, so anything else that comes up just looks totally surmountable.

I know it's hard to look ahead when you're still embroiled in the divorce stuff, but how about making yourself a vision board? Put all the nice things and experiences you want to pursue in your life on it.

(A few years after my divorce, I found a list I'd made - an exercise in a self-help book - listing 100 things I'd like to do in my life. This was made years before the divorce. One of the things I'd put on the list - I swear I don't even remember thinking this at the time - was to play in a band. And here I was 5 years later, having learned to play the drums after my divorce, playing in a pop-punk band and touring playing glockenspiel and percussion with my professional singer-songwriter friend. So but some BIG dreams on that vision board - you never know what will come of it!)

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This is Ellie btw!

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And I meant to say, here I was 15 years later playing in a band.

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Good advice! All of it. And yes, 25, don't be so hard on yourself. I tried incredibly hard to never bad mouth my ex. I've slipped once or twice. I can count on one hand the number, but I still have a few times over the years. It makes you human and a family to share in some of the highs and lows of your feelings.
That said, I think you have a task forming. The task is to find healthier ways (for YOU) to get those feelings expressed. Talk to a friend, post here, get a volleyball and paint a face on it, or whatever actually works for YOU. You'll have to try some things and be flexible, but you can figure it out. Do not think that you're superhuman. You will have time you'll need to get expressive. I know I still do after all these years, but they do come farther apart then ever before.
I am so much happier now than I was then and in the couple of years leading up to that time in my life. You will be too. It just takes some time, especially while you're on the roller coaster with the courts involved. Part of that is because he will actively try to push your buttons. There's no telling how long it will be before he stops trying so hard to 'punish' you.

A thought: I'm reminded of a story attributed to Buddha. I'm not a Buddhist, but it makes sense to me. The story goes like this, "Buddha was walking down the street when a man approached him. The man hurled insults at him and told him, 'you have no right to tell others what to do. You're just like us!' He was clearly angry. Buddha turned to him and said, 'let me ask you a question. If you give a gift to somebody and they do not accept it, who owns it?' The man was stunned, but still angry and he sarcastically replied, 'I do!' Buddha smiled and said, 'that's correct. And just like a gift, if I do not accept your anger, you still own it.'"

You don't have to accept his anger. You don't have to give it back either. You only need to deal with your own hurt and feelings, both because of him and because of yourself.

On the latter, I suggest you be much more objective and see it how others see your choices. I know you'll replay them at some point, but I hope you don't linger too long. I think you're a special person that has made some hard choices over the years. A person with a great deal of integrity and class. A very smart person with those attributes to be sure. Don't let a point in time keep you down.

Peace,
AJM


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Originally Posted By: kml
Oh 25! I missed that you were back here because I never come to Newcomers. Plus I've been going through some big time dating drama of my own in April. You'll find me lurking on Surviving the Big D.

Your story is sadly similar to mine - reconciliation followed by a repeat 10 years later. Narcissist husband (something I only truly recognized after the divorce.)


Much as I resist labels that over simplify our situations, I have read a lot about narcissism lately when so many people have suggested it. Out of maybe 10 symptoms, I'd say h shows 7... cry SMH It seems to apply.

and no, I would not have said that 10 years ago. I tend to think IF it's really what he is, I find that h either morphed into one or somehow I really missed a lot of behaviors.

Plus the internal moral ? struggle h showed a decade ago, indicated some internal conflicts.

THIS new episode and the lies and deceit are so much more than I knew --- geez, I don't know the words. Surprising and $hitty and I find myself incredulous over and over.

Like he continues to disappoint me. (How is that possible?)


I have always tried not to badmouth my ex, but my kids are not stupid, and his behavior with them since the divorce has gradually eroded their relationships with them.



Oh wow....well, once upon a time h was nourished when he came home to the kids who ran up to him happy to see him. He'd get on the floor and play with d28 and was very into our son. That was a very happy time for me/us. I mean, I know this. H would weigh s30 on a scale to mark his growth. God we were close then...

I don't know what is in his head now. His interactions with the 2 older ones has now been strained. He asked s30 to go to Mexico with OW, and S30's/ his gf to "meet the family" = my FIL and BIL, people I have known 2/3 of my life (ouch).

But when s30 said it was too soon, H blurted out "why don't you just say what you mean?!!"

S30 said "I just did"...this was early Feb and no contact since...

For our older d, H sent a group text and photos of snow in a darkish place and he included d28 in the group text. It was about the lovely snow...then one of the group members in his new fan base, asked "how the jewelry went over..."

D28 was silent and later, h sent out unrelated texts to her to probe and build rapport or whatever. NOT to address the pain it must have caused or even the awkwardness.

So after 2 days she sent a Group text back, saying she hoped he could "finally be happy now that he got everything he wanted but kept seething resentments to himself for all those years. She said she "hoped the jewelry was expensive b/c he has a lot of catching up to do for his new narrative and PS she didn't care about the snow."

No contact since then... (Yeah, I did like her text back to the fan group).

But when I vented about the $hit I was being put through - They vented back with me and no one defended him. But they told me things that make me think I'm nuts.

I mean, it's like the past is gas lighting me. WTF was real??



Again, as a narcissist, he could not understand any of their mental health issues, or anything that didn't reflect well on HIM (as a narcissist, their value lies in how they make HIM look).


Yes I see that. ^^ Our youngest child is d19, and she is gay and "non binary". That is a term that means sort of transgendered (as I understand that term. No reassignment surgery planned).

I suspect this^^ does not reflect well on h, in h's mind.


He left the first time when she was only 8...and s30 says that "of course after dad raised a SON, it was okay to leave the d's behind..." I'm not saying he "made her" gay.

I'm saying that deep down I believe that if the girls had been boys, God help me I now think h might have stuck around more. Idiot. Nice message.

Oh and H sent his cell phone to d19 (b/c hers broke). On his cell he did not erase any of his old texts (!!)

and of course there were some texts about her and his desire to "not invest anymore in her" and wanted to "throw in the towel" with her. Nice message there too. She's in therapy as am I, and my d28. S30 says he has people he confides in with his problems lof late.

So we are all in therapy except for h...yeah I did just laugh out loud.

There were also texts about his big plans for getting money up in Alaska so I'll get to use them in court but even as I type that, I feel sick about it. He was SO dishonest to me and about me. Unbelievable...what a terrible thing to do to me.

I did not expect him to be such an a$$. Like I said, he keeps disappointing me.

How does he think the kids will see him? And he was close to a lot of my family...will that ever matter?

You know, his own dad screwed his mom over in their divorce (the first of my FIL's 4 marriages)...so the bar is low. H must feel he's much better and ignores that his mom worked 2 jobs and smoked non stop, only to die 3 years after her retirement. FIL invested wisely and made a fortune so he and his 4th wife have a good life. Of course FIL is not close to his sons (but thinks he is!) and our kids fear him...and my step Mil is a great woman whom I miss...she was a widow with a lovely woman and FIL doesn't get along with any of them. I suspect/know she regrets marrying him but they are now 80...

And I think in h's mind, since we visited his dad twice a year (he has nice homes and lives in glorious places), maybe h thinks it does not matter how you treat family as long as they have money later in life...yet I also know h has very mixed emotions about his dad.

Which he does NOT address...I mean, some deep resentments and also a desire to make his dad proud or to compete. Who knows?? I'm tired of trying to be in another person's mind, especially when all the answers are things HE could seek, and which are not in my sandbox. SORRY FOR RAMBLING...

Oh back to my d19 upon getting h's cell phone and all his critical texts about her,

her response to getting these texts on his phone, was to say "I knew he never loved me".

Heartbreaking...ugh cry

I try to avoid badmouthing him while still trying not to invalidate their very real feelings about him. One son has not spoken to him in a year and a half.

cry OMG! KML that makes me so sad and i must ask, what your h thinks of that...

Too bad you are not still here in California, I'd take you out for a (virgin for you) margarita.


Oh, I'll be heading back west soon, for 1) this summer for the Gross Div Crap and

2) down the road, I would like to be closer to my kids. So at some point I think I'll end up there. Probably east of LA so I can afford it.

My job search that I now must begin, will take me...somewhere...

Oh but More importantly, I'm able to have A glass of wine now, as long as I time my meds.

But until I'm weaned off these meds -planned for 18 months from now (1/4 of the way there) I'll have to watch it. But man, if there was ever a time to drink, it's NOW.

I'll take you up on the offer. There are several DBers in southern California if that's your locale.




I'm sorry he's being such a jerk in the divorce but judges do not look kindly upon guys who suddenly resign their jobs while going through a divorce (especially after he moved up there specifically to work). Have you considered hiring a P.I. in Alaska to see if he's working under the table somewhere? That might be worth spending a little money to check out.


I'm planning on it but I am low on funds, which h must know. I'll have to borrow for it. H's probably using marital assets to pay his legal bills AND his huge salary.

I'm amazed he thought dividing his military pension would be fair and fine for me (it's about 1/9 of his salary up there). Like he would have had an MD without me. Our son was 8 weeks old when h began med school, which was a career change for him.

Anyhow, what a jerk. So I hope my L's are on top of this.

So far they've gotten good results in COURT but it's a whole other thing to get the money in my account. For the record, if he's not working at all, this will be the first time in our m that he is unemployed. In med school the Army paid him a stipend and benefits. There's no way he's sitting on his a$$ in OW's place just...doing what? fishing?

That sounds super attractive for her...an unemployed 60 y/o MD? I mean, I don't know. But I do think he's working now OR will be soon OR someone is sponsoring him...
he cannot retire. Now I have texts to prove he sure intended to...

So, How much is the loss of love/respect of our children and the eraser of our marital history worth it to h?

Evidently a lot. OR he's in denial about it. I read WAS/MLCer who returned, saying he just put that in the back of his mind and would tell himself that "5 years later I'll pick up the pieces" and that he "deserved to be HAPPY" etc...

The last part about h being SO HAPPY, rings true for my situation. H has an affect at times that the kids find very weird and a sign of mental illness.

I'm not sure of all that but I concur about the affect he can take. Like he's playing a role and will ACT happy or as if he really cares about someone's comments and all I can say is that recently it got weirder...harder to hide.

BTW h's dad will leave h millions...so the irony is that h has so many fears about money but his constantly chasing the almighty dollar has cost him AND us, a fortune. Fool.

Learns nothing from his mistakes...except to make them someone else's...



Also, if you think he was hiding some significant money before, a forensic accountant might be in order.


Indeed...same money issues for me, but obviously worth doing in the long run. it's really a cash flow issue. There is a court order he has not complied with and YES I have told my L's to pursue contempt charges. NOT to punish - but b/c in the long run, taking him back to court will SAVE me money.


I know you're still in the painful part of this, but know the following:
- it's delightful not having to walk on eggshells around a moody narcissist anymore.
- every man I have dated since my ex thought I was fantastic and couldn't understand what my ex was thinking.
- I have a lot more time in my life for other things without my ex in it. (Btw I just got my first official recording credit, playing Vibraphone and glockenspiel on my professional musician friend's new album - little ole amateur me playing with big-time serious professional musicians! Something that would never have happened without my divorce.)

Beauty! Well done and yes it helps. I want to live and work overseas. I'd have had to do logistical gymnastics to get h over there for any length of time. It was always OUR dream but then it was always only h's dream to get back to Alaska and I don't know how I'd have fit into that.

His OW is from there. Great. NOW he can be happy...finally...



- I LOVE having total control over my finances, without my ex's impulsive financial moves. And even though my income with alimony is less than half of his, I get the feeling my finances are in better order than his.

funny you say this^^. I believe that outside of what he'll inherit, h would do money poorly.

I studied finances intensely. It's an anomaly given my performing arts interests.

So h ASKED me to invest our retirement savings in the early 2000's (it bored him)

and then found out h "invested" a chunk too, behind my back. (WHY lie??) I discussed finances with him ad nauseum and at one point h said "25 if you like this stuff, go ahead. Put it where you think best."

Unknown to me, h started investing in fear based "investments" in 2003 which are simply gone now. I checked and yes those monies are gone. Idiot.

And he asked me for advice on a retirement account in 2011 and I filled out the paperwork, which he lost. So I did it again. (I know!) Then he called me from work when he was in HR, and I told him which ones to choose (there were only 3 I selected).

But he did his own thing, for some unknown reason. I mean, why pretend to take my advice? Why give me the forms and paperwork and then call from HR?

So his "investments" earned what you'd get by hiding money under a rock. Mine have doubled 3 times...

(You're welcome, h). Our s30 said if there's an inheritance from his parents it'll be from me. So much wasted money that h now says was b/c I lived beyond our means.

Gee, if only I had worked full time somewhere and maybe didn't have that wacky 3rd child...THEN h could be happy. On fb, he's SO HAPPY!!

Once I know what my budget is, I can make better plans. I'm 57 (yeah I look younger but still) it determines a lot. I would like to work overseas as a teacher and then maybe get work as a lawyer over there, for a few years

or do a job in this area, that matters to me. H got to change careers, twice and loves his job. Well, he DID love it...

I'd like a turn...


Check out the Mr Money Mustache website for some inspiration.

I will. BTW I got this condo based on the court order. I cannot afford to stay here if I get no spousal support. I chose this place b/c it is close to the subway in case I have another seizure and can't drive for 3 years. It's pricey. But I don't want to live with a sibling again.

No offense to siblings...this is the first time in my life I've lived alone (not counting my dog). It's important to me to do this...




- My career and newfound musical hobby life have flourished since the divorce.

I look forward to discovering this^^^.


- Since the breakup of my marriage, little things - or even big things like the current dating implosion disaster on my thread - seem like small potatoes in comparison. I feel kinda invincible - like the worst has already happened, that thing I tried so hard to prevent, the breakup of my marriage - and I survived and thrived, so anything else that comes up just looks totally surmountable.

I understand this^^^...it happened and i'm still alive. And I have peace about a lot of things, including filing for divorce.




I know it's hard to look ahead when you're still embroiled in the divorce stuff, but how about making yourself a vision board? Put all the nice things and experiences you want to pursue in your life on it.


I actually did make a list of things I was mourning the loss of due to the Div...(like travel and living overseas, having a lovely home, and doing a job that "matters" to me and "leaving my mark".)

Then I stared at it and said, "hey 25, are you sure you have to cross off ALL those items off? Seems like a lot of them are attainable without your h, in modified forms. "

Those are the things I want to do or start to do, now, and force myself OUT GAL. Yeah, I know how to GAL and I have done so in the past.

Not sure why I'm holing up at the moment. Guess I gat myself a day to huddle with my dog. Or is it b/c I know that h is not coming back? Hmm, I'll have to ponder that.

Now there's cluttering paperwork around and that will have to be handled.

Because I want a nice clean place to live in. For me.


(A few years after my divorce, I found a list I'd made - an exercise in a self-help book - listing 100 things I'd like to do in my life. This was made years before the divorce. One of the things I'd put on the list - I swear I don't even remember thinking this at the time - was to play in a band. And here I was 5 years later, having learned to play the drums after my divorce, playing in a pop-punk band and touring playing glockenspiel and percussion with my professional singer-songwriter friend. So but some BIG dreams on that vision board - you never know what will come of it!)



I hear you. ((( )))

PS KML it's weird to have this recon history and then another round of this, so similarly.

It makes me question the whole MLC label. For sure now, it's a non issue. It would require a seismic change in h to want back in. That's assuming insight and effort - he once said he'd "just win me back" if things didn't work out up there.

But even assuming this Mt Everest amount of work, where would the trust be? There are some things you just can't "unknow"...


He's only now noticing that the kids are not "into" HIS happiness. he sent them Easter cards with goofy stickers on the outside and I think it was supposed to be funny.

They ignored...so maybe he's realizing that doing this $hit is not painless for - even him.

My belief - which could be wrong - is that

You just cannot inflict this much pain on people who loved you, and so much financial damage, and such extensive rewriting of marital history, and remain unscathed...

h left the first time when he was 50...and now he's 60. Terrified of aging and it SHOWING...so he's dating an OW who is an "aesthetician" and from what I hear (I blocked him on fb)

her facelift isn't good one. ( I admit Of course I like hearing that). I can imagine them working together, btw.

And I can imagine h getting lots of botox. Fillers, whatever. Fight aging as much as he can.

He is a liar in so many ways...

KML, and others, how to date...I cannot offer much to a man in my life at the moment. I mean, fun companionship (b/c I'm friggin' hilarious and brilliant and beautiful...just saying...)

But I'd like to think h's blows to my ego are to be overcome. Must it be by dating? Don't get me wrong, I want to date. And I want intimacy in my life.

Like this year. It's a NYE resolution I made and time is ticking...

But that will be weird. I have not been with a man other than my h, for 37 years. We met when I was 19.

Oh geez...

Thanks for the encouragement - it means a lot.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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AJM,

thank you

smile


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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