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Originally Posted By: AJM
25, I think the judge has seen this stuff before. I sometimes wonder how they do it. The question is how they'll react, really. I think they gather the data points over time, rather than do anything immediately. That means inconveniences while they try to be fair. At the end of it all they follow the law and leave the rest. That translates into you being harassed until the final outcome. As long as the judge follows the law, you will be ok. It's a predictable outcome.

There's a wrinkle in the law that is silent on a specific issue h is raising, although most of the law seems to go my way. Meanwhile it's very hard to make plans financially. I think honestly, going to court to hold him in contempt (he's violated court orders from late January on) and now "retiring" is the only way he will comply. I hate going that route but he once said "there will be war" if I tried to get more than the minimum.

Since he's already furious, I'm not quite sure (and hate jinxing myself) how I be hurt more financially. The flaunting of the OW was the week after the wage garnishment and a week later, he quit.

SIGH...this is actually worse than I expected it to be which is saying a lot. It scares me actually. In that sense, I am motivated by fear, aren't i?




Since you know he is motivated by fear and emotion, it actually makes things a little easier when you drop the expectations. When you drop the expectations that he'll be rational, or that you want some sort of reconciliation (of any kind). Until then, it's a bit of a roller coaster.

I have no expectations of him trying to reconcile with me.


He MAY have those unspoken "if I have to, I can get 25 back down the road"....

I have hopes he will try to repair his r's with the kids. Not soon, b/c they are upset. And I KNOW they will never see him the same way. I know this. How can they?

But I have no control over that...and frankly, a part of me hates that he wants them to "BLEND IN NOW" as if I've been replaced b/c HE is SO HAPPY (except for the divorce part of his life. And the job he quit I guess. And His own L says he's hard to reach, seems disorganized and scattered in thought, and the only thing h focuses on is how he hates to pay me anything)....

Do i think he's gone off the deep end? Yes. Do I care why he's being so $hitty to me?

Not that much, as I am in survival mode.


Not that much. I'm in survival mode now.

I understand what you mean with him 'owing' you. I get it. It's not unreasonable in many ways. Forgiveness rarely works like that. Business transactions do. They won't with him while he is in this state.

I thought my loyalty would be appreciated and returned, more than that he "owed" me. I was wrong. To the extent h feels remorse of shame (which is not a lot) h converts it into blame. So it's almost impossible for him to feel he owes anyone.

The one time he admitted feeling he owed someone it was his brother, for doing most of the end of life care for their mom. You know how h paid his brother back? By adding him to our life insurance policy and decreasing MY amount.

Nice...he "pays" his brother by taking from me. And would not face it till after h dies. God what a coward he is, and what a red flag I should have noticed faster.

I don't think you should be so hard on yourself (bigybiz you should not either) - giving and blending is what a marriage is about. And over 35 years, it's very normal.

Everything was fine. Until it wasn't, right? To your point about the time portal? You can't go back (and in time you won't want to most likely). But you can deal with the here and now and what is. This will take time to play out in the courts, but it will play out. It's finite.

Don't get tired of it, and don't get manipulated - he'll try both. But he's got a lot more energy around getting this done "his way" and it won't be in your best interest. That's to be expected. But you can outlast him and nice him to pieces.

See, I THOUGHT that being kind and fair would help me. I've been very fair and unemotional when it comes to our dealings (at least in my eyes and the 3 other L's I check in with).

But he's still mad as he11 and pulling out all the stops. (Oh the irony). I have talked to the other L's in my family and they are saying "h is already in contempt of court. Why not drag him back in? He's being cruel to you and CHEAP and acting on fear and etc/// They are probably right...

By being nice and reasonable, you're setting the tone.

well we are in NC and only go thru the L's. I say nothing on FB and don't bad mouth him to his peeps or family and am calm as I can manage...



By letting him run like a crazy man, complain, slander, etc. he expends energy. Let him. The judge and the lawyers will see soon enough what's going on. And if you're patient and kind and reasonable, you'll find they will work for you.


I'll definitely be calm in court. And with this expert on Friday (wish me luck and send prayers please!)


In my own case, my ex was bitter and mean and vindictive. Go figure right? By the end of things she was so impatient to 'move on' with her life, that even my lawyer wrote that into the offers.

H has an OW and maybe that will work to my advantage, as gross as it is...God AJM, a part of me hates him...like maybe for real. OKAY I know...detach and shake my head.

I also feel pity for him. Wreckage and a facade and I Don't THINK I'm kidding myself. Maybe...but he's so inauthentic now. Goofy over the top posts about happy happy and no contact with our children...wtf?


She wrote in that it would 'free her to move on and enjoy her new life.' Her lawyer helped me out on more than one occasion, although within the boundaries of the law. Nothing unethical.

Patience and kindness will be good for you in other ways as well. This kind of thing can affect your health if you're not careful and actively working to prevent that. I learned that the hard way (nothing too serious; caught early enough and made the changes needed).


As you may know, I was hospitalized in October with sudden onset seizures grand mal (you know, the sexy kind). It was a big deal and changed my life short term.

But I'm healing.

Thanks for hanging in there with me...

Did your wife ever express to anyone, some regret?

I think there's a very good chance that h will go to his grave shaking his fist at me for "stealing his money" and whatever else he's mad at me for, then...



I wish you the best 25!

Peace,
AJM


I appreciate it

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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25--This is where I think it might help you to treat him as though he is NPD and try to strategize how you can get what you want while making him feel grand in the process. I worry if you go for contempt that will be the ultimate calling out of his behavior and he may try to make you pay in some other way. Once I started treating mine as if, regardless of whether he is, the paybacks I was experiencing came to a screeching halt.

Just throwing this out there, did you ever consider filing for legal separation and tying up the financials without filing for divorce? They really hate it when you file for divorce. Could you convert the D to such a separation? He could fight it or later convert it, which would make him feel he was getting what he wanted, that he was the one divorcing you rather than the other way around. Of course I have no idea how far down the road you are. I just hate to see this crap he is pulling with you. I think if he had the semblance of control he might knock this crap off.

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Originally Posted By: OwnIt
25--This is where I think it might help you to treat him as though he is NPD and try to strategize how you can get what you want while making him feel grand in the process. I worry if you go for contempt that will be the ultimate calling out of his behavior and he may try to make you pay in some other way.

I hear what you're saying. That's why I began this so reasonably and took precautions against embarrassing him at all (had to serve him at work since I had no address for him but I scheduled it so no patients would be there).

But if he's already refusing to comply with court orders, AND has filed motions to decrease the support that he's already not paying...I mean, my fear is that he's going to deplete the nest egg b/c he's 60 and I'm not...he's not supposed to, but so what?

Court orders have thus far meant nothing to him.

Once I started treating mine as if, regardless of whether he is, the paybacks I was experiencing came to a screeching halt.

Just throwing this out there, did you ever consider filing for legal separation and tying up the financials without filing for divorce?


Yes, and I filed for sep in 2006, partly b/c of yet another secret trip to Alaska, and to protect asses from his "investing" up there.

Don't forget that h retrieved me from the hospital back east, and then left me alone in California. I was in a fog, he was in a hurry to get back to the tundra.

Our s30 drove up to check on me and I was in such a fog. And then I realized h had cut off my access to funds. I had $700 in my bank account and got radio silence from h when I texted and called to ask. I could not drive, could not bathe or swim without supervision.

H asked me to sign some form of waiver of rights that in my fog, I signed. He was on his way out the door to the cab. In my right mind there's no way in he11 I'd sign something like that if I were not then impaired, which h, the MD, knew.

My siblings were appalled and urged me to seek counsel. So I did, the next day. It sure looked like h was going to file up in Alaska or simply drop out of sight financially. Or send me an "allowance" now and then...if he felt it was justified. I specifically asked and he ignored my requests.

Own, for the first time in my life I could not care for myself. It's mortifying to admit but it's simply true. The seizures and meds took a toll on my mental faculties for awhile. I'm a lot better now. But I lost several weeks back then and I just thank God for my family flying out to help me pack, and drive me cross country in a van.

I prayed and talked it out and simply felt I was in an impossible situation. I think h practically dared me to file. And you know, I'm not sure H would ever have filed if it were up to him BUT he might have

and the law up there would have been crazy for me, and inappropriate.

I could never live up to his expectations (be a US senator) and he was furious at me for ....I guess being needy and not agreeing to move up there, again...and then there was OW who made it so much easier.

The risks were too high not to file, and h gave every indication I could not rely on him for anything...


They really hate it when you file for divorce. Could you convert the D to such a separation? He could fight it or later convert it, which would make him feel he was getting what he wanted, that he was the one divorcing you rather than the other way around. Of course I have no idea how far down the road you are. I just hate to see this crap he is pulling with you. I think if he had the semblance of control he might knock this crap off.


I hear what you are saying. But we are too far gone for that. Besides I think h probably wants to marry OW. He's "in a relationship" with her on FB so I don't see how he'd go back to a sep, since he pretends we are already divorced.

He shows nothing but contempt for me in his pleadings and his public behavior.

And Own, I do want to move on. I need to make plans for my own professional future and someday dating. And I don't want to be married when I begin dating.

H has streaks of narcissism in him now, clearly. I think it was your link to the behaviors and he has about 7 of the 10, though the history of our marriage was different/better.

SMH...and going to sleep.

Nice "trip" to California in the morning...at least I'll see my kids!

cool



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Posts: 1,979
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25--this man is so despicable and malignant. Try reading some about malignant narcissists and Sam Vaknin. You may find it enligtening. I hope California goes well.

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thank you Own, there is a formula for his paying, but he's quit...
now says I never helped him in his career in 35 years of marriage, working AT the same hospital, being named in his Officer evaluations as a factor in his favor and giving free seminars to his colleagues AND AND AND raising our kids...
SCOFFING...how can he say this with a straight face. Judge has to have heard this before...
I mean, he's pulling out all the stops. What a mean, bad dishonest person he is to me.
What a disappointment.

Prayers welcome

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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It's amazing what the WAS's will spew to anyone who will listen.

You didn't support him in 35 years? How come he didn't leave 34 years ago?

Mine blamed me for the snow coming this weekend that will force us to move D's bday party from a local park to a bowling alley.

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25, have you shared your insurance policy story with your lawyer?
I hate to say this but in a way, you are building a case against him to protect your future. Anything that would show how unfair and cheap he has been toward you could help your case.. you are, in your h' s story, , irrelevant.. but were you for the past 35 years? I don' t think so..

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Sorry i need to re-phrase. In your h' s mind.. not story..

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Exquisite is right. You're building a case. And your H will help with that. I'm surprised the judge allowed you to be married and yet your h is allowed to cut you off from the marital assets. That's a little odd and maybe something else to talk with the L's about. Perhaps something until the divorce is finalized, even if he's ignoring the court orders. That ignoring the orders will eventually catch up to him.

That's what I mean when I say to let that fish run. Keep the pressure on, but don't get nasty about it. Fair and balanced. Since it's a negotiation, you may want to reach a little further than you think you'll be able to reasonably do long term. Freezing his assets doesn't sound unreasonable if it's a possibility. Collections are always a problem in civil cases. I think you're aware.

He says he's happy? Really? Seems par for the course, right? I mean, he's saying what a wonderful person he has been. How he's endured you for 35 years while you sat back and enjoyed the spoils of his hard work (I say that sarcastically even if it's hard to see in the writing.) He may feel 'Happy' now that things are out in the open. A relief of sorts that he's 'free' in his mind. He's not, but that's another matter. My ex did similar. In my case I made it so she would have to file. Why? Because of the kids and because I knew how impatient she was, although I didn't know exactly why. I don't know that I'll ever really know the why in my case. I don't really care to at this point. It's been a lot of years and I've gained the perspective to really see what was happening and the timelines.

In my case, she was the type that would have likely brought violence to 'solve her problem' if she could have met the right people. She once tried to have me beat up by one of her friends if that's any indication smile I'm a little smarter than that. He and I are acquaintances now and occasionally drink together. She was infuriated by that wink

That's the mindset, 25. They have to get away so badly, that facts and history are not really relevant. It's one reason I think they forget what they did or said. It was a lie to themselves at the time, so why remember it?

Quote:
Did your wife ever express to anyone, some regret?

I think there's a very good chance that h will go to his grave shaking his fist at me for "stealing his money" and whatever else he's mad at me for, then...
You can't guess the future but I hear you. No, my ex never expressed remorse. She did once say that 'she never said she never loved me' for the 20 years. Very vehement about that. She also went out of her way to tell me she's glad she had the affair etc. when I wouldn't give her what she wanted. She'll likely be shaking her fist at me when she dies as well. Or she'll forget altogether. I can't see the future either, so I really don't know. But it seems a reasonable guess at this point.

My kids are grown now. One about to graduate college and one in the middle of college. I have no reason nor desire to talk to her at this point and have not for a long time. It's why I no longer spend much time on the boards. I knew you back from some others that I keep in touch with, and came back to listen and offer some insights I'm familiar with in the hope of being helpful.

Sorry to hear about the seizures, 25, but glad you're doing better. I'm surprised you don't have his medical license reviewed for getting you to sign papers in that state of mind. That's the most unethical thing he could have done at this point, professionally. My ex is a doctor as well (dentist really) and believe me, I would have pulled that card if the situation were available. I was an email away from filing harassment charges against her and OM. I'm kind of lazy about doing that, although I was advised several times to do it. I kept the emails though - just in case. I live on the east coast in a state with CCA laws and don't want to get caught up in ex drama over it. So I'm very cautious and learned throughout to keep careful notes and document the behavior. That, and it was amusing to see some of the stuff in her state of mind smile

Oh. She did go out of her way to vilify me to her family and my kids. My daughter bought into it and won't talk to me except to ask for money or tell me what a bad father I am. I am saddened by that but I did work hard to reconnect the kids with their mother; I can't stand the thought of my kids growing up without a mother that cares for them. Or at least acts like she does. But most people haven't bought into it, including my son and ex's family and friends, etc. They see the BS. Yours will as well.

Peace,
AJM


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Back from the gross divorce crap (I think "GDC" may be my new acronym for that. )

Anyhow lots to process. Conflicting emotions, mixed emotions.

*Not wanting to get stuck in the suffering of it all.

*Yet I replay a lot of our past now, wondering what was real and what I should have seen sooner or done differently.

*We are all supposed to learn from our mistakes.

But we are not supposed to ruminate needlessly or wallow in pain. That prevents our forward motion.

*We have to keep moving forward...like those sharks that breathe with movement or die if they stay still.

And yet...


IRONY - a year ago my h and I were interviewed about our marriage and the election. We did not agree on the candidate, though we have(had?) several beliefs in common.

We were in a national newspaper and then on national television. Our relationship was documented!

"in a solid marriage that has survived poverty, multiple degrees, deployments, childrearing..."

and on TV "after 35 years of a wonderful marriage, the 25's find themselves in conflict about this election..." (I might not have said a 'wonderful m' but still)

It was a tongue in cheek piece, it was funny and we had a great time. H said it was "one of the best things we've ever done. We're a great team." Lots of hugs and laughs.

Folks, the election is NOT why we are divorcing. But that^^ marriage, the one in which h said we were a great team, is the marriage I was in.


Either everything he nows says is BS or what he said then was BS, or I don't know...

*how much matters now? I want to learn from this, so a part of me says "a lot!"

*Another part says "25, in reality your h may not know the truth. Even if he does, he may not be able to explain why...or when something changed and he surely won't admit he should have been honest..."

*So What can you DO about it?

And the only answer that is coming to me today, is "change."

I think we have to change to get through our pain. If our story of loss doesn't change
and we keep repeating ourselves (trust me, I've been there)

then we are getting stuck. And I do not want to be stuck in pain.

*So that's what I know.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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