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A Message from Michele
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Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: Cadet] #2738591
04/12/17 06:27 AM
04/12/17 06:27 AM
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doodler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cadet
It has really helped me in realizing that my children are 50% their mother...


Speak for yourself. I put in at least 75% of the effort making them so I'd say my sons are 75% me and 25% my XW. I could even make a case for 80/20 except that I'm not the noisy one.

Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: 25yearsmlc] #2738602
04/12/17 06:48 AM
04/12/17 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


I have a question/remark. I have always told my kids their dad loves them, (even in the face of long absences and weird behavior.) I mean, for years. And in his goony way, I really believe he does love them.

But after his OW and SO HAPPY FB posts, they told me clearly, "Do not tell us Dad loves us. Do not defend dad anymore..."

That was clear... I have to respect their wishes, but man, that was unexpected.

I think they want me to just move on and that defending him, or saying he loves them, sounds as if I am not. But I am.



Strange how that works huh ??

I always had the mindset that it wasn't my job to facilitate their relationship, it was my job to not damage their relationship....

However that plays out..

And your children are grown, so I'm sure it sounds strange when you defend him.

Just make sure that you don't perpetuate any anger that they may have inside them already.


Originally Posted By: 25

Is that what you mean?


Sorta, maybe...

Ya know, we have spent years now saying that we would be fine if we reconciled or not.

Because of the DB process, and the fact that we didn't fake our way through it. Paid the dues, collected a life outside of the process.

Because we didn't let ourselves be defined by the worst thing that happened to us.

I found out in one direction, you found out in another. And you are just now starting to find out whether your theory is correct or not, because you are heading down the other path now.

So maybe I meant...

You have already done this, been to this point once before. It just took you longer to get here than most of us before you.

You already have this decision inside of you, maybe buried deep, yet somewhere in the back of your mind, you already have it...

Over the years, you still had thoughts of, what if we hadn't reconciled, or I would have done this differently if...

I didn't DB because I was successful, I am successful because I DB'ed..




So I guess that, where do you wanna be, comes from somewhere around there...


????

Goals ??

Dreams ??

Plans ??

Focus ??


Same as before J...

Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: Vanilla] #2738621
04/12/17 07:59 AM
04/12/17 07:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
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25yearsmlc Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
A few thoughts on anger. Anger is inevitable although rage is not.

Do not be afraid of anger, often we need anger. Anger is a prime emotion and motivating. Anger is part of healing grief, a stage in the Kubler Ross cycle.


Anger can be white, driving and pure. Anger can be the Alaskan snow.

Anger can be red with rage, anger can be bile coloured with envy, anger can be puce with disgust, anger can be yellow with determination and anger can be white with motivation.

Above all, anger is just anger. An emotion and it is needed. Anger can carry you through trying times, through the tundra of divorce fins. Anger can carry the key to the door of freedom, it can give you the energy to bust that rusty lock to sunlight.

I waited a long time for my anger to come and when it did it was not as I expected. It did not hurt my soul nor drive me to wickedness, it gave me steely determination and helped me act with direction. It protected my soul and self against the tide of abuse. Anger saved me. I know anger can be a good friend. An emotion for reason and in the right way a battle cry for truth.

Embrace anger when it comes, say hello and thank you to the warrior emotion who is on your side and gives you the grace to push away the obstacles in your path. Use anger in your movement to be D. You may need it's help to push through some dark days ahead.

Please know anger can be a friend.

V


Vanilla

I appreciate your comments, as you know. cool I'm not sure why anger is so hard for me to maintain, b/c this is not how I was in my 20's. But I'm the child of an alcoholic and maybe it's a trigger?

ANGER....


For ME, anger is a hindrance to my moving forward.

I find that it prevents me from feeling deep happiness or joy. It makes me feel physically sick at times. Anger darkly colors the good in my life.

I am careful to ensure I am not running from anger, b/c you are right, it is a stage of grief.

That's totally valid & I will think on it.


Remember that I spent over a year of my life a decade ago, being angry.

It really pre-occupied me. It came out in conversations with nearly everyone I spoke to, and I'm a mother So my anger colored their lives and I wasn't as present to them as I wish I had been.

So, now, even though they are out of the house, I know they are worried about my health. I know they need to see me moving on and at peace. I know they really want this. I don't think anger, outside of legal matters, will help them.

2 of the 3 children absolutely do not want a reconciliation, they want me to say "good riddance to lunacy" and that's a quote. Maybe all 3 feel that way.

But, h is their dad and his DNA makes up half of them. If h is "bad/crazy/selfish", I worry very much that at some point they will either act this out, or have some part of themselves they do not love. I really worry about this.

Seeing me angry at him...man, I just think that will stink even more for them than this already does. But being assertive to get what I legally deserve, they want AND I want and am pursuing.

The anger I do feel at the "injustice" of things, & the present treatment in the divorce matters (ALL about money, as we have zero custody issues and no real estate now),

helps motivate me in the court matters.


THAT is the area in which I am allowing anger to motivate me b/c
I will not just "let ALL assets go" to end this ordeal earlier. I need financial security. I provided h's ability to earn what he earns now.

H was not an MD or even a medical student when we met. In fact he was a veterinary student (yes, he's got 2 medical degrees and is double board certified & yes we were married the whole time, and had S30 when h was a veterinarian )-

Recently in court h told the judge that he "is considering a fellowship in stem cell research and his income would decline and blah blah blah (h is 60...)

AND said he's buying into the partnership up there so his income is not really X and blah blah blah (idiotic to buy into a practice at his age AND refused to do it anywhere else, but you know, this is Alaska so those rules don't apply)

AND he wants "to help veterans" (odd, since h just left a Veteran's hospital in CA), AND said he wants to retire someday soon to travel (oh, really? Because that sure was MY hope & expectation)

so he's all over the place.

These^^ statements were in a court filing which h signed. I'm semi sure h does not know how that looks. OR did not read it? My L thinks h's own L is very frustrated with h as a client.

I have told my lawyers that I do not want anger to be a factor in any responses. But I do want the most I can get, fairly.

I got a wage garnishment b/c h never once informed me about what he'd pay or had paid or what a schedule of payments would be. Sometimes I'd discover a deposit in a random amount of money, in my bank. Oh goodie.

Otherwise, he'd MAIL a check from Alaska, usually mailed late, so I got ONE in the middle of last month, with a weird note hoping i "have moved on". Nice touch.

Since H kept all the funds at separation time, he will have to pay me half. He's in arrears for spousal support already. Mind you, H never even sent a text. I figured a garnishment would be easier for me AND for h. No more need to find a stamp or write a check or mail something on time.

This greatly angered him, I am told.
H acts out when h is angry. Perhaps that was part of his need to overly share on FB about his "new honey"...who knows?? I'm told it was so over the top and just goony, that it really only gutted me sick for a few days.

So far, at least.

In the long run, unless something terribly weird happens in court, I will be fine financially. But something terribly weird COULD happen. And in the meantime, I'm extremely put out & financially stressed by his behavior. (Yes there is a court order.)

I have fears. Fear & anger together?? OMG I barely sleep some nights.

Without going into medical detail, good sleep is a factor in seizure resistance, and poor sleep is a factor in having seizures. I need to sleep well.

So I can't pull all nighters or keep waking up in the middle of the night feeling sick with anger, fear and grief.

I have to let these^^ go - outside of times when I do legal or financial work in daytime hours.

Do I need anger to motivate me? I personally don't. Some people do. I get that.

Anger in me could take years off my life. I believe that.

So, for ME, I want my freedom to GAL & LIVE MY LIFE, as a happy motivator.

But I will not cave in on assets, only to escape this and then to live my life in more financial stress. That hurts my happy motivator...



I wasn't in this^^ place, 10 years ago. I wanted to stay married. I wanted to regain what we once had or have the future I hoped for and sacrificed so much for (Time Machine talk)

AND b/c we had 2 children still at home. They loved their dad then...

Someday, I think I will look at h with sympathy for a damaged man who once had a great family & lost them. I hope we can be cordial or even friendly, someday.

(MOST DAYS), I also hope that someday our children (& I) will see real change in him, true improvement, even if it's for someone else.

It would be better for them to see that, than to see him go down in flames.


Vanilla, I'm still pondering your first post here. cool

More on that later. Thank you so much for your input. I really do think about it and process it.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: Cadet] #2738622
04/12/17 08:06 AM
04/12/17 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
2
25yearsmlc Offline OP
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25yearsmlc  Offline OP
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Cadet

I want to love h. I know I love who he was (and I MUST still love him b/c we were married so long. Right?)

How could 6 months end all of that? But how I feel right now, if I had to use words,

would not be "love."

At the moment it's too painful to say "I love my h", when he's made such personally painful choices to me, and hurt our kids.

It's a choice I hope to make again. I can imagine him being in an accident and me flying up there to help.

Writing that ^^ also makes me wince at the moment.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: TxHubby] #2738627
04/12/17 08:17 AM
04/12/17 08:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
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25yearsmlc Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: TxHubby
Sometimes D is best for everyone involved. I'm toying with that idea myself. My fWW are "reconciled" but to be honest, she has always seemed tainted to me ever since her A. I used to think so much more of her as a person. This version of her is not near as special. She's not necessarily doing anything wrong. She has been a model former wayward doing all the things that are prescribed of former wayward spouses but I'm starting to think "so what?"


TxHubby,

I worry about this^^. I don't want the ultimate road my marriage is taking, to be projected onto others. I want more for you.
You say she's being a model former wayward, and with all due respect b/c I REALLY hear your pain,

is there a part of you that wants to punish her?

In the unlikely event I ever recon with h, (and I mean, UNLikely), I'd need to know what steps he took to avoid making these types of choices and how he resolved whatever crap is within him, to be so dishonest for so long, and this could
only to be learned through therapy and workshops, where I can share the experience and feel trust again.

This^^ would take at least a few years. But my situation has been much longer than yours, and if you read through my whole thread (which would deserve an award)
you'd see a very different piecing process.

Our piecing was interrupted by H's mothers' cancer. We did not resume the needed parts once she passed away.

And years later, here I am.

Whatever plan or approach you choose for piecing, you have to keep at it. Forever. (Which we were probably supposed to do in our m's anyhow).
And you cannot hold the A over her head like the sword of Damocles, or throw it in her face every time she fails at something b/c hey, we are flawed humans. It really has to be dropped by you.

But If you mean you feel like saying, "W, I now realize I'll never see you in the light I want to see my wife in, no matter what you do. We must divorce",

just know you are then the WAS. Know that you are arguably simply not forgiving her, b/c hey, it's really hard.

Is that^^ viewpoint okay with you?

(Yes, I'm aware there's another viewpoint, I just wanted to check you on this one).



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: Cadet] #2738636
04/12/17 09:15 AM
04/12/17 09:15 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 347
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Originally Posted By: Cadet

It has really helped me in realizing that my children are 50% their mother and I am 50 percent each of my parents,
so while we don't care for the ACTIONS of our spouse, we still have to honor the facts of why we are all here.

We love our children unconditionally and so too we must love our children's other parent.
Again the good old word DETACH comes into play and really trying to understand how to do that with love!

Yes LOVE is still a CHOICE and the fact that our partner chose a different path does not really matter with our path.



This is beautiful, Cadet. Couldn't agree more!


Me: 43, Him: 40
Married: 21 years

Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: 25yearsmlc] #2738638
04/12/17 09:25 AM
04/12/17 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,359
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When I really want words to say, they seem to fail me. I have respected and admired you since the day you joined the board. I admire your strength and courage, and the honesty you have shown in sharing this painful update. ((25))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: sandi2] #2738657
04/12/17 11:29 AM
04/12/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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25yearsmlc Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
When I really want words to say, they seem to fail me. I have respected and admired you since the day you joined the board. I admire your strength and courage, and the honesty you have shown in sharing this painful update. ((25))



Thanks Sandi, I was actually looking for you. And I feel likewise. H is running like mad from dealing with the D issues and you know, I get that! It's awful. I want to run too.

I have family & friends around supporting me and I still feel like it's just such an ordeal.

Like a lot of labor without a cute baby at the end.

I'm working on "pushing" through it.

I so appreciate your input.

I've always seen myself as incredibly self aware, but here I am.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: 25yearsmlc] #2738687
04/12/17 03:39 PM
04/12/17 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Vanilla Offline
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25

I see you as a very strong and capable poster. Your recent raw posts about your life are vital to your well being and totally authentic for you. Anything else is inconsistent with the values you hold.

Others read into your sitch or out of it what they will. There is no control that you can have and projection is part of life I am sure it will be as it can be.

Your sitch is yours and unique to you. Your sandbox.

I am not proposing uncontrolled anger or being angry so that it escalates. Similarly I am do not proposed being uncontrolled in sadness to depression or uncontrolled joy to mania. I am meaning great anger which is action focused and not directed at another but into results. Something that those who are emotionally healthy can tolerate and manage. I would also conclude that the 25 of the angry year is a less formed version of the 25 who is today. And being attached to crazy loco would drive anger. You are detaching from crazy loco, have stronger boundaries and survival strategies. You have more emotional health and have wisdom. You have grief to passage.

Using anger in the D process, directed anger is like the sword of truth. Many of the Giggalo claims are inconsistent nonsense. Such as he paid more for bills than I did and wants the excess back. His assets are more than mine but he wants a slice of mine. He lives with BIT but says she is his landlady. He is in Italy in a rented house and wants me to sell my home and buy him one to live with RIT. Etc etc etc etc.......

It is a question of taking each item and analysing the truth of it. Each item is examined by me for its validity and each item is researched for its counter evidence. For an L to do that is almost impossible. I am the expert on my R and I am the expert on my fins. The L is the expert on the law. I went on a course run by the Law Society on D and the D process. I also attended over a day of lectures on how to present evidence to a court. And soon I will be taking CILEX exams to train as a legal executive so I can represent myself in court at appeal if I need to do so. Overkill? Who knows although it was directed anger that got me there. Anger at the actions of the Giggalo not at him. Anger driving me for justice.

The courts and judges make their own decisions. As an abuse volunteer I can see how well or badly the evidence is presented is important. That and proposing cross examination questions. There is a support that can be offered in the UK called a Mackenzie friend so that those who represent themselves do not go to court unsupported. I have volunteered to be trained as a friend to those who have been abused and who because of fins must represent themselves. It's a seven week training and will be very interesting. That is how my anger is white and directed.

Establishing your own needs and ambitions. Do you want to buy into an income? Own an asset such as a business? Do you have debts? Can you be as wild and crazy as WH? Do you have an Alaska of your own to lay claim to? Have you always wanted to learn to fly? Do you want exotic medication and a Swiss recovery centre. I recently saw that strategy work in court, a mother who wanted to return to expensive training. Her turn to get a specialist qualification. Her needs quantified, if her WH wanted her to maximise her income (so he paid nothing) then she wanted a resource for three years to train. The court agreed. The WH hung himself out to dry with his greed.

Ever wanted to be a buddist and learn meditation? To achieve a lifelong ambition. To travel and be a travel writer perhaps? Now is the time to own your contribution. And yes, a few years ago I did read almost all of your threads, (I skipped some of the MLC bits I confess) so I get the anger part of it in your history, although from my old notes whilst reading it seemed perfectly in proportion to me.

--------------------------

Your children are adults now and have their own genetics. The populist traditional view is that DNA is 50% of one parent and 50% the other mathematically speaking. That is a misnomer although no natural child is ever a clone of its parent. The mix of genes is one's own and genetics need not be express. That is the root of epigenetics, so that we are in control of our own gene expression. What we do, our food, lifestyle and thinking are expressed through our genes. Genes can be switched on and off. Our genes are not our destiny.

So whilst love is a choice, the adult children becomes loved and admired for themselves and who they are as individuals that is in the expression of their genes. Genes mutate, at least 2% of genetic material is recombination genes and not directly from sperm or egg of the parent. That is the wonder of life. And genetic functions repeat, there is redundancy in that too. So we may not be 50% of one parent and 50% of the other. We can be many proportions expressed and that can change throughout life. I believe the admiration goes to the holder of the gene and for their choices that are expressed. And not the donating ancestors. Those are my thoughts on it.

Children as adults own their own genes.

I love your son's response partly because he recognises the crazy loco and wants you to be free from it. He seems to want you to be free from the prison of the place which is a representation of Alaska. The loco is very visible to your family, more than you knew it seems, and with the right evidence to any court you choose. I think the pattern is likely clear.

You are young still (and yes I know your biological age), with a future to claim. A future to make your own, a future in which you can express your best genes. A future of possibilities opens up to you. Resources will be helpful in making your future.


It's a new world.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: 25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D [Re: Vanilla] #2738690
04/12/17 04:28 PM
04/12/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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Train Offline
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Posts: 1,433
25, I have no words except these:

Minus the obvious losses that you, naturally, must grieve, I'm happy and excited for you. You are the definition of "turning lemons into lemonade," and there's something telling me that the rest of your days will be a *beautiful* adventure. You will be blessed with the things that make you happy without the weight of what has held you - and, yes, I mean YOU - back.

The world is your oyster, and I hope you'll take us along for the journey. I know it'll make for some awesome reading!

Sending you hugs and high-fives because ... life. You've got this.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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