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Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736435
03/28/17 11:28 AM
03/28/17 11:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 22
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James66 Offline OP
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James66  Offline OP
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Sandi,
The post you quoted was only partly written and didn't convey the full message which was misleading. I wrote the longer




post not knowing that it had been sent and the gap is me avoiding the printing on the screen.
I'm very sorry to alarm you.
James

Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736441
03/28/17 11:37 AM
03/28/17 11:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 22
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James66 Offline OP
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James66  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2017
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Sandi,
The post you quoted was only partly written and didn't convey the full message which was misleading. I wrote the longer




post not knowing that it had been sent and the gap is me avoiding the printing on the screen.
I'm very sorry to alarm you.
James

Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736490
03/28/17 02:06 PM
03/28/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,047
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I did not see your last post, when I sent my previous one. You had me really worried about you. My advice is to take care of yourself, first. I realize you want to take action to save your MR, however, your mental state is most important. You cannot make the best decisions when experiencing the type of pain you currently face.

Quote:
Anyway it seems my comment about the dinner pushed my wife to now want a divorce and yesterday she told me that.


FWIW, I doubt your comment pushed her to want a divorce. According to the pattern set by those many WW's before her, she was just waiting for you to say one thing she didn't like, and then use it as her green light to divorce. If not for this statement you gave her, any other statement would have come soon enough......b/c she was sitting on "ready". I dare say she is following the free advice she has collected.

Don't beat yourself up and think you've pushed her into doing anything she didn't want to do. At the same time, I suggest you refrain from making similar statements........at least, for the time being. At this point, I don't think such statements will save the M, and could result in more problems for you.

Quote:
I think my wife has made it very clear that she feels trapped by me trying to persuade her. She says I try to manipulate her and use emotional blackmail.


It is common for a W to feel she is being pressured when her H persistently tries to persuade her to change her mind. A WW would probably use similar terminology, as your W chose, to describe emotional pressure. I think it is natural for the LBS to at least try to talk sense into a spouse who wants to leave the M, however, it doesn't work well when there are issues such as MLC, waywardness, etc. Their mindset is not in "normal" mode. My point is that verbal persuasion is not generally successful in this type of situation.

Quote:
I do wish to change who I have become, our circumstances and be able to reverse our financial situation and take care of my Family.

I am apprehensive but willing to go outside of my comfort box and work on myself but there is much to do.

I am anxious and desperate but willing to try anything.


Great! That is your starting place ^^^^^^^^^^^^willingness. Your circumstances will not likely change until you change yourself. I see most LBH's panicking and trying to change the circumstances before working on themselves. You have to get it corrected in the right order. Also, you must understand that making lifelong changes in yourself takes time.....if the changes are to stick. And, the circumstances may take even longer. There are no guarantees about your W and the MR. However, if you really work to make positive changes in yourself, I don't see how your life could help but improve from where you sit today. Do you? Currently, you are feeling miserable and seeing little light at the end of this tunnel, however, there is ALWAYS hope when you have the attitude that matches the words you have stated in the quote above. Willingness is your friend! Anyone can "wish". It takes courage to be willing to change yourself.

I am encouraged by what I have read in your last post. Now, to put legs to your willingness. wink

For now, your primary goals should be to get yourself protected legally, and emotionally. My advice is to seek legal guidance, in order to protect yourself, financially, etc. I would avoid public arguments, b/c it will work against you. I suggest you not listen to the team that supports/advises her. Avoid contact with those who wish to see the M end. Although you still want to save the M, these other things need to come first. The harder you try to save it, right now, the more depressed/fearful you may become, so keep your eyes on the goal of getting yourself protected and emotionally fit.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: New member, please help. [Re: 25yearsmlc] #2736522
03/28/17 05:49 PM
03/28/17 05:49 PM
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James66 Offline OP
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Hi 25yearsmic,
Thank you for your comments.

My warning my wife about many men on tinder is not supposed to be a threat but


advice at a time when I believe she may be vulnerable. I guess it would not be welcome anyway.

I believe you are right in what most women and my wife want and need. Since my wife first talked about divorce I have got work but it has been extended hard to earn reasonable money due to getting used to a new trade and being dragged down emotionally by the situation and the intense worry, especially when my wife has gone out for the night with someone.

From my wife's point of view, and actually what I was trying to achieve the marriage would include a husband that worked hard and earned enough for financial security.

Be Debt and worry free,

A loving relationship involving our children with laughter and good conversation,
working toward goals whatever they may be. Regular trips home and abroad,

Both with a zest for life.

Re: New member, please help. [Re: sandi2] #2736534
03/28/17 07:22 PM
03/28/17 07:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 22
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James66 Offline OP
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Sandi,
This evening my wife spoke with me briefly.
She said that she had paid a solicitor a grand to start the divorce proceedings stating that she doesn't love or want to be with me.

The conversation started when I asked her quietly if she wanted me to go because she had a relationship with someone else. I said I want to know because if that was the case I would know what to do. ( meaning but I don't know if I made myself clear that I would understand we were over)
my wife became a little frustrated saying no but of course I have seen her kissing a different man to the one that I think dropped her, perhaps someone she has known longer. But is it possible she hasn't taken it any further ?

She says she doesn't want men in her life and that I have put her off men for life by leaving her to struggle all these years.

She said she had been thinking about it for a long time to which I replied "I know, about 5 years. Her reaction suggests I was spot on.
I won't go into everything so as not to waste your time plus my memory is vague but we talked for a short time reasonably,though she still insisted on divorce unless I left the house or something I don't recall.

She did say she would go to relate if the decision was binding.
I thought relate was a therapist organization, anyway I said that they were not the type of people I wanted to use and that we should use a solution based therapist and I will locate one. My wife didn't really comment further about this so I don't know if she agrees or not but I will look into it. Please advise the best way to do this.
It has been suggested that I text my wife saying that I'm sorry that she wants to divorce but and as she is cheating g on me I can't carry on in the marriage and I would like to go with her to mediation. (This will save us thousands thigh not what she has spent already) and it could but time.

Perhaps the bot about cheating is antagonizing and not a good idea but I see why it was suggested.
Neither of us can really afford solicitors without putting a charge on the house which could wipe us out financially.


Perhaps her friends in the last post have bank rolled her. They are giving her advise and they clearly dislike me intensely.

What so you think ?
Thank you
Best wishes,
James

Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736538
03/28/17 08:21 PM
03/28/17 08:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
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25yearsmlc Offline
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Originally Posted By: James66
Sandi,
This evening my wife spoke with me briefly.
She said that she had paid a solicitor a grand to start the divorce proceedings stating that she doesn't love or want to be with me.

The conversation started when I asked her quietly if she wanted me to go because


she has told you she wants out and she has told you why. Regardless of any OM's -she has told you over the years what she needed. It sounds as if you both have had hard times, you have been too depressed to work in a consistent manner and she's been bearing all the burden so, you saying you think she's depressed now or has OM just takes the focus off the one person you CAN control, which is you.



she had a relationship with someone else. I said I want to know because if that was the case I would know what to do. ( meaning but I don't know if I made myself clear that I would understand we were over)

I thought there was an OM. If so, then what?


my wife became a little frustrated saying no but of course I have seen her kissing a different man to the one that I think dropped her, perhaps someone she has known longer. But is it possible she hasn't taken it any further ?

So there's an OM at least partly physical, and certainly emotionally. How much difference does it make to you if it has gone further? I'm not arguing either way, just asking.

You know you have a w who says she wants out of the m, says she is acting on that wish, that her reasons for wanting out are not "crazy" or out of the blue, she's having some form of R with an OM...and you seem to be frozen in indecision.

Why not talk to someone there? I don't get what that risks. Can you tell us the downside?


She says she doesn't want men in her life and that I have put her off men for life by leaving her to struggle all these years.

She said she had been thinking about it for a long time to which I replied "I know, about 5 years. Her reaction suggests I was spot on.

Okay so, ^^ this discussion of OM's and "her depression" isn't really helping you solve much. TO me they are irrelevant unless you are saying you knew she was not happy but you did nothing to improve things and now she wants out and Now you are "willing" to do something.

What do you think WILL help the situation? When do you want to do that?



I won't go into everything so as not to waste your time plus my memory is vague but we talked for a short time reasonably,though she still insisted on divorce unless I left the house or something I don't recall.

She did say she would go to relate if the decision was binding.
I thought relate was a therapist organization, anyway I said that they were not the type of people I wanted to use and that we should use a solution based therapist and I will locate one. My wife didn't really comment further about this so I don't know if she agrees or not but I will look into it. Please advise the best way to do this.

Make sure you are taking action to help with the financial part b/c it's crucial to how she feels. And for how your family is doing.

And let's face it, it's not really fair to her for you to unilaterally decide on another project or training or whatever, while she works full time and tells you it's bothering her.

I think she's been really clear. As for a therapist, you can actually ask them if they are "solution based".

Some T's want to delve into childhood issues, which has a lot of value in the long run, or for an individual. But right now, your marriage is in crisis and the best case scenario to me, is you getting a job and delaying her departure from the m.

I cannot see value in you leaving the home, btw. Not sure if the laws are different in the UK, but here, it would not help you. (I'm assuming there is no violence, or too much stress in front of the kids, however).

Are you doing anything for GAL? Not all with the kids...but spending good time with the kids is also a good thing for everyone.


It has been suggested that I text my wife saying that I'm sorry that she wants to divorce but and as she is cheating g on me I can't carry on in the marriage and I would like to go with her to mediation. (This will save us thousands thigh not what she has spent already) and it could but time.

You want to save the m, or give her an ultimatum?

I mean, what is the point of saying that to her? She wants out of the m and IS willing to see other men.

So, you pointing out that you can't carry on, seems like an invitation to have her say "get out".

IF the time comes for hiring lawyers, THEN I suspect she will suggest mediation. She would be the payor, correct?


Perhaps the bot about cheating is antagonizing and not a good idea but I see why it was suggested.

The part about cheating is absolutely antagonizing and deflecting from your own role, and is absolutely going to annoy her. Why are you focussed on her, when she's not here trying to save the m?

I think you are overlooking that in her mind, "cheating" is not cheating. It's a justified relationship with OM b/c of her long unmet needs.

I know that hurts to read and I'm sorry. It's just that most people who have affairs, particularly women, have already thought it out. It's not a casual or spontaneous one night stand or "just for sex". Most women who have A's don't feel much love for their h's, but feel deeply wounded and or resentful, and have been for a long long time.

Pointing out the cheating at best, will fall on deaf ears. The more you challenge her choices, the more she will defend them. Keep that in mind.



Neither of us can really afford solicitors without putting a charge on the house which could wipe us out financially.

Then when the time comes, IF it comes, mediation can arise as a proposal. But I'd be surprised if she isn't the one to suggest it.



Perhaps her friends in the last post have bank rolled her. They are giving her advise and they clearly dislike me intensely.

What so you think ?


No control over this^^^. (Also doubtful that someone is just giving her money for this, but again, you have no control over this.)

You DO have control over you. What's going on in your sandbox?


Thank you
Best wishes,
James


Hang in there James. I wish you could see that you are empowered when you have work to do in your sandbox.

If this were all about her out of the blue, and if you had been a perfect h, then you really would be powerless.

But you're not powerless. That^^ is good news. I mean it!






M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: New member, please help. [Re: Vanilla] #2736550
03/29/17 12:57 AM
03/29/17 12:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 22
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James66 Offline OP
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vanilla there are some lovely and experienced people helping me and I very much appreciate the time and effort you all are giving me.



I'm sorry though, I don't know what 25 questions you are referring to. Please let me know.

Thank you.

Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736557
03/29/17 03:20 AM
03/29/17 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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Have you read DB or DR?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736568
03/29/17 04:07 AM
03/29/17 04:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,047
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Quote:
My warning my wife about many men on tinder is not supposed to be a threat but
advice at a time when I believe she may be vulnerable. I guess it would not be welcome anyway.


I see similar actions from worried H's who want to protect their WW from getting into situations with OM (online dating, meet ups with strangers, co-workers, or whatever). When the H approaches his W with words of "warning", it often has a tone of anger and bitterness.........and most of all, controlling. Well, if she's trying to date men, what H wouldn't be a little angry, right? This is me sharing my views, FWIW. If a man wants to warn his W of impending danger resulting from her conduct, he should approach her lovingly and speak in a tender, caring manner that shows his sincere concern for her welfare.........and leave his personal feelings and demands about what she's doing completely out of the conversation. It's about her and her safety. On the other hand, if she is cheating and/or conducting herself like a single woman that clearly crosses boundary lines for the M, then her H may approach her in a firm, confident manner to state how her conduct is disrespecting him and their M, and state the action he will take if she chooses to continue her wayward behavior. If he chooses the second option, he must backup his word and follow through with his action to separate (or whatever). The point is...... She is free to make her choices.

I can't blame any man who is upset about it, but speaking from personal experience, I think she will see you as trying to control her.........and it produces negative results, b/c she blames you for the shape of the MR. In my case, I saw my H as a weak, passive, desperate man trying to force me to conform to what he wanted me to do. The crazy thing in all of this is that I had previously been the woman who would have clicked my tongue and judged another married woman for the same behavior. But at this point, I was the wayward W, and filled to the gills with years of resentment. I had lost respect for my H, blamed him for not providing better,..........and eventually, I rebelled. When he tried to warn or give weak threats, I acted worse b/c I was rebelling against him and the lousy life I felt we had. Like your W, I felt trapped. I could not stand to be in the same room and share air with him! No, I did not hate him, I just felt like I was dying and struggling to survive....much like a fish laying on the ground gasping for oxygen. Eh.....a little dramatic wording perhaps, but I said all of that to show you that you cannot talk your W back into the M. As much as you may be tempted to say one more thing...........don't do it. Just work on yourself and let go of rope you have tied around her. In time, as she watches you (perhaps from afar), she will see you becoming the man you once were, or maybe better. She has to have time to work through her own stuff, before she will be ready to even consider putting forth any effort toward a MR.

I don't think I am projecting my stitch into everyone else I read on the board, b/c everyone is not the same, regardless of how similar the stories may sound. I have studied this for quite some time now, and the behavior patterns of a WW appear to be from the same cookie cutter. Until your W can let go of her resentment, and begin to feel respect for you.........I think she will continue to rebel. All in all, it still starts with you making changes for your health and the betterment of your family.

Even if a divorce is granted, it is not the end of you and your children. You can be happy, but I think you may need better help for the depression.. In the meantime, who knows what your W may decide later, I remember at least one story of a couple reconciling about a year after their divorce.

You can do what you need to do, James. I hope you will start by thinking differently about yourself. Maybe we eventually become what we believe about ourselves. If so, that should be our motivation to have a positive mental attitude, right? smile

I seriously want to see you pull yourself out of this pit of clay. Of course I hope the M will survive, but more importantly, I want you to be well.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: New member, please help. [Re: James66] #2736592
03/29/17 07:39 AM
03/29/17 07:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
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25yearsmlc Offline
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Originally Posted By: James66
vanilla there are some lovely and experienced people helping me and I very much appreciate the time and effort you all are giving me.



I'm sorry though, I don't know what 25 questions you are referring to. Please let me know.

Thank you.


i think they mean the questions I asked you. My original screen name has pretty much stuck as my name, all these years later.

"25" for short.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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