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Re: "stages" of recovery [Re: CW2017] #2735577
03/22/17 03:25 PM
03/22/17 03:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
CA- now East coast
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25yearsmlc Offline
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25yearsmlc  Offline
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Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: CJLS
negative thoughts about all aspects of the affair

meaning b/c you feel you have the moral high ground, you are not having negative thoughts about all aspects of the affair? I'm very confused by that answer. Sorry.


if she were here you would get no admissions whatsoever apart blame shifting presumably

This is ^^ incredibly vague. And it deflects from us helping YOU work on YOU. Who is blame shifting now?

Look, we are here trying to help you b/c you are on a site to help save a marriage in crisis.

She's not here working on the m. So all we can do is help you work on you, and sure, maybe prepare for various scenarios, but all we really can do is help you become a better man, to behave differently and change and grow from this

or not.

So, what would your w say if she were here? Would she say the m lacked passion or that you were inattentive or like a bff but not a lover,

or too "amicable" and or quick tempered, critical, controlling, unimaginative,


no one is holding you to this. I'm just asking you to spitball what you think she'd say.

THEN we can figure out if any of her feedback is valid AND if you want to work on it.

Make sense?

you have certainly given me food for thought concerning my own actions, yes I must be more proactive than just presenting a superconfident individual



Are you presenting a super confident individual or one who takes for granted her remaining (esp since her mother lives there)

or does she see you as a friend, and not more?

Dig deeper.

The one upside to these ordeals is that we can become truly better people. Why avoid that? At least get your "money's worth" from this garbage.

Pain is the touchstone for tremendous growth, or victimhood.

In the end, this^^ is all up to us.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Re: "stages" of recovery [Re: CW2017] #2735653
03/23/17 05:46 AM
03/23/17 05:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,043
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MoveFrwd Offline
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MoveFrwd  Offline
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Originally Posted By: CJLS
specialist councellor agrees that in this particular situation I should just play a waiting game either way


I agree with 25. Waiting is not an action.

Standing isnt being still.

You can stand for your marriage as long as you wish. But if you dont actively grow, then your situation wont change.

Re: "stages" of recovery [Re: 25yearsmlc] #2735656
03/23/17 06:01 AM
03/23/17 06:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 634
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JRuss Offline
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Posts: 634
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
The one upside to these ordeals is that we can become truly better people. Why avoid that? At least get your "money's worth" from this garbage.

Pain is the touchstone for tremendous growth, or victimhood.

In the end, this^^ is all up to us. [/color]


This is really, really good stuff, IMO.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Re: "stages" of recovery [Re: CW2017] #2736555
03/29/17 03:15 AM
03/29/17 03:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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MrBond Offline
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You never did answer the question. Have you read DB or D R?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Re: "stages" of recovery [Re: MrBond] #2737222
04/03/17 08:28 AM
04/03/17 08:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 139
London, UK
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CW2017 Offline OP
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CW2017  Offline OP
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Posts: 139
London, UK
Hi all
First of all apologies to 25yearsmlc for not replying sooner. I have been thinking a lot on her points. I will certainly not post again in future without thinking things through first. In essence I am trying to behave more like the person who swept her off her feet 27 years ago without appearing too overattentive (I appreciate she is still in the positive mirroring/fog phase with the OM so this is a long game, I am desperate to keep her unless she wants out of course). Although not a macho type I am also consciously trying to be seen as taking the lead in most matters now as I might have subconsciously let this slip over the fast few years (possibly). My wife has always been a “wearing the trousers” type, I think this is OK within reason as this is personality based, she knows not to push me too far, so I can only assume I am not part of her thinking much at the moment, for whatever reasons are behind this affair, hopefully I’ll find out one day.

On the subject of what would my wife say if she was here, this is a tough one. She clearly plays her cards close to her chest which I guess is why firstly I was not aware of any dissatisfaction on her part with the marriage which in turn led to zero discussion about this. On all other fronts we are very good communicators (and of course recently I have made a point of us having a 20 minute + discussion about how the working day went that day, etc. every evening). She also has a great poker face which doesn’t help either in trying to work out what’s going on in her head. As I think she is leading a dual existence (for her own selfish reasons, her personality can best be described as a combination of selfish –not necessarily always in a negative manner- and high maintenance) it would be very hard to get her to open up. There may well be the possibility that resentment has built up over the years but there has been no obvious trigger for this, yet there have been times I have noticed a lack of genuine affection (this has not been the case since our “half truths” confrontations earlier this year where things have never been better, although again her positive reciprocation could be for a ton of reasons).

So in an ideal world I would like a “final” confrontation sooner rather than later (I certainly am not sitting around assuming the affair will fizzle out or that her Mother is the one thing keeping her here, as has been suggested). I will need a trigger for this as I am “not supposed to know anything”. Maybe something as trivial as she said his name in his sleep for the umpteenth time the previous night, or whatever. I am seeing a lawyer in two weeks time, not to file or anything but more to get an idea of tactics as I will need to have every possibility locked and loaded in my mind to allow for any twist and turn the confrontation conversation might head. There are certain aspects of UK law which are clearly different but also, depressingly, a lot of it is shared with the US. For example, when I was at home looking for work for 5 years I could be viewed as being the primary carer for my daughter (my wife went back to work a year after the birth) when she wasn’t attending kindergarten. However, one tactic that tends to be recommended to force an affair out into the open, i.e. threaten to leave (and with the intention of doing it as well) is a big nono over here as this will be taken into account at any family court and would almost certainly guarantee me never setting foot in my house again after the divorce, as my wife would be allowed to stay there whilst looking for somewhere to live and only then would the house be sold. So I will also not be able to use my body of cellphone text based evidence as (a) this might backfire with her if I present it to her, (b) in the UK a family court judge “may” take a dim view of intercepted texts/emails and may even deem it illegal which will, of course count against me in any judgement.

Will have to find DB/DR on a UK second hand book site (an electronic version would of course be “safer” in terms of delivery!).

Thank you all once again


Me 55, W 50
D 8
M 20
T 27
MIL w/ us
BD 01/02/17
workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA)
OM senior manager, long term W, child 14
now: limbo (my choice)

"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Re: advice please [Re: MrBond] #2749348
07/02/17 11:26 AM
07/02/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 139
London, UK
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CW2017 Offline OP
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CW2017  Offline OP
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Posts: 139
London, UK
Hi all
it's been a while without any update (apologies!) but the main thing to report was that I confronted using all the amazing tools I have picked up from these boards.

Note I have confronted rather than exposed. I did make the mistake of sharing my experiences with one of the other more gung ho infidelity boards, but my reluctance to expose (my choice) resulted in myself getting roundly abused so I won't be going back there again.

My lawyer (being a family specialist) is all for keeping things as amicable as possible especially at the divorce stage so I went with her wishes about the OW. If needs be later on if you remember all my evidence is electronic and can therefore be emailed to the OW.

A lot was said in the conversation including the topic of splitting/divorce and dividing things up. I did say I was prepared to let her go and she could go to him and bring it all out in the open but she said that would not happen as he would not be leaving his wife so we would both end up on our own (which may still happen of course). I was not surprised she downplayed how "deep" it is but she did admit it was addictive. I told her that if this is BS I will find out and also that I did not trust her yet.

In the following week she kept saying she had made a massive mistake and could I forgive her. I said to her that she probably fell in love with him (knowing full well it was a mix of love and lust). Guess this could be regret rather than actual remorse.

Not sure if this is encouraging but she readily agreed to marriage counselling. We are having individual meetings before the joint sessions. Having read opinions fron Sandi and others I appreciate this could just be some sort of internal validation for her and I should be able to sense if she is just playing lip service. I was advised by the lawyer that I should stop snooping on the cell phone messages as it will destroy me but she did say that I could check a couple of weeks or so later to see how committed she is.

The red flag (which I expected) was that she did not want to give up her job (it pays very well and the UK is f****d for jobs not that I am making excuses for her) but she knows the score.

I finally decided to check the texts the other night as a one off to see how things really stand (no need to do it any more so that obsessive aspect has now gone if it was indeed truly obsessive on my part). It was intriguing as it was a running commentary on the confrontation conversation. As an example, she said to him she should really quit her job (so she was actually listening to me). She even asked him if they could go back to how it was before the affair but he of course played her. The reluctance to leave her job will be my main focus in the counselling sessions whether she is playing me like a violin or not.

So I have no idea what's next and whether she's still prepared to carry it on within the fog in full knowledge she will rip her family apart. Just got the small matter of the 20th anniversary and the expensive foreign holiday to get through (the latter is purely for my daughter's benefit).

At least I now have the divorce mindset if it comes to it and believe me that is a breakthrough on the personal front in terms of moving out of infidelity. What a ***** tragedy.


Me 55, W 50
D 8
M 20
T 27
MIL w/ us
BD 01/02/17
workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA)
OM senior manager, long term W, child 14
now: limbo (my choice)

"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Re: advice please [Re: CW2017] #2749581
07/05/17 12:44 AM
07/05/17 12:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 207
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Stormchaser Offline
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Posts: 207
Quote:
The reluctance to leave her job will be my main focus in the counselling sessions whether she is playing me like a violin or not.


This happened to me. I was fed nearly every excuse in the book from my wife and our terrible MC as to why she shouldn't quit.

W said repeatedly that her interractions with OM were rare now, and she would schedule meetings when he wasn't around in order to avoid him. When I saw on social media that he got promoted and he would be her supervisor, did she step up and quit on the spot. That finally showed me her true dedication to our marriage. Had she offered me some lame excuse, I'd be out of the marriage.

My biggest regret is not forcing her to quit that job when first found out. My new IC helped me realize this, my old IC and MC were just enabling idiots. My reconciliation suffered horribly all the time they worked together. Now that they're apart (a year later), we're doing much better.

I'm of the opinion that once an affair happens in the workplace, you're done there. Had I had an affair, I would've quit out of respect. The line of BS both my W and MC fed me was so detrimental to our recovery that I'm surprised we made it through.


Me: 52
Her: 48
2D 26 & 16
M: 25 years (together 30)
EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016
Admitted SOME physical but no IC.
We know that's a lie.
Status - tryin to R
Re: advice please [Re: CW2017] #2749585
07/05/17 12:54 AM
07/05/17 12:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
T
TxHubby Offline
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This latest update tells me you're going to be just fine either way. Even though she's a "wears the pants" type of person, all organizations, no matter what they are, including marriages, can have only one leader. You're the king of your castle. The leader of your family. If you get complacent in that role that opens the door for someone else to usurp your role.

Your new boundaries are great. Stick to them and don't be a pushover ever again. If your spouse, or anyone, says you're trying to control her, and that's a popular argument from wayward spouses, you tell them you can't control them in the slightest. They are free to make their own choices. What you can control is yourself and if they choose to keep disrespecting you then you can walk away from this marriage and you'll be just fine. Your integrity is still intact. Hers isn't. Her AP's isn't. You could leave clean and with a bright future. They'd be stuck with an immoral cheating affair partner. Not much of a prize for either of them.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Re: advice please [Re: Stormchaser] #2749589
07/05/17 01:00 AM
07/05/17 01:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
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TxHubby Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stormchaser
My biggest regret is not forcing her to quit that job when first found out.


I don't look at it like you'd be "forcing" her to do anything. When I started putting up my boundaries I was told, even my an MC, that I was trying to control her. It took me finding a good IC to realize that wasn't the truth.

You wouldn't "force" her to quit anything. What you would say is I can't force you to do anything. What I can do is control myself and I won't be in a marriage with someone who continues to work and interact with a person that they cheated on me with.

That's a boundary for you, and should be for all of us (I know it is for me).

I tell my wife that. I don't snoop or keep track of her ever. She feels the need to let me know where she is when we're not together as some type of accountability. I really don't care. I can't control where she goes, who she associates with and I tell her that. All I can control is me. She does EVEN ONE THING that violates my marriage boundaries, like even an inappropriate flirt or conversation with another man, then I'm gone forever. It's that simple. I have worth as a person and I won't be treated like that ever again by anyone for even 1 second. I can't control what she does but I darn sure can control what I do. We all can.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Re: advice please [Re: CW2017] #2749641
07/05/17 05:16 AM
07/05/17 05:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,047
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sandi2 Offline
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Quote:
The red flag (which I expected) was that she did not want to give up her job (it pays very well and the UK is f****d for jobs not that I am making excuses for her) but she knows the score.


Leaving that job site is a must. Txhubby is right about getting therapists that understand the addictive power of EA's. Having a good therapist to guide you through reconciliation is good, as long as your W is not seeing, hearing, or talking with OM. I understand how tough it is to get a good paying job, but do you want a good job or a good marriage? Unfortunately, if she stays where OM is employed, your MR will be lacking in so many ways.

This has been going on for several months now, and I think you are still on your first thread. smile It causes me to wonder if you are the type of man who waits for his W to decide what she wants. Have you considered saying something like, "It's not cool for you to remain in the same employment as OM, and I feel disrespected".

You forgave her, which is admirable. I don't know your W, but some WW's will hold the H's forgiveness over his head, as if he has no further say about her current or future behavior that affects the MR. It would be unwise for either of you to think the EA will end while she is employed at the same job as OM. There have been numerous stories where the AP remained employed together, and I can't remember any successes in their MR's. And for the most part, these were cases where W's had an EA with a coworker or boss/supervisor.

Forgiveness is only the first step. There will be things she has to do to make the MR work. She may need to be told that forgiveness for past transgressions does not equate to trust. The first time, she freely had your trust, but this time around she needs to show that she can be trusted. (Just in case she throws it in your face, "You said you forgave me, but obviously you haven't"). Forgiveness is not condoning what she did, neither is it trust. This will be difficult for both of you, but for her to expect you to be okay with her working with OM should not be acceptable.

There is a big difference in a W having to settle for her H (b/c the OM won't leave his W and kids), from a W who wants to be with her H. Currently, her desire to be with you instead of the OM may not rank very high. Until she can work through her wayward issues, she needs to make decisions based on what is right. If she will, then eventually her feelings will follow.

I realize she's not the one coming to the board. I just try to give you an idea of the part she has to do. There will plenty of work on both sides of the street. A lot of her work will be on her mindset and getting her heart right........if she makes the right choice to stay in her M.

I hope you will post more often. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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