Infidelity/WAH, my story pt 8

[ForGump]

MlCers mind is very mess up, they don't know what they want, they are in limbo and ambivalent, the more you will try to push them to make a decision or talk about R the more they will run away from you. You cannot speed up the process they have to go through. Take that time to work on you and build memories with your children.

SkyHigh, this is good to hear. I've been wondering if I should be tougher on my MLC/WW and set a deadline for the limbo we are in and/or file D right now. I'm on a razor's edge: one day I resolve to get tough and file, and another day I resolve to just keep the status quo, let her file if she wants to (she attempted once to file already, but changed her mind in the middle of it). The prevailing advice in the forum is to get tough. It's good to hear at least a different point of view. Still not sure what to do....

[ForGump]

WH chose to sit in the back of the van

My MLC/WW has been doing this for a long time. She no longer rides in the front passenger seat with me. I don't really think of it as childishness. It's not done in a calculating way. It's not done to make a point or to send a signal. I believe she does it because she's a very visceral, intuitive animal, and she just cannot bear to be that close to me right now, when her mind is set on leaving me. It's part of the MLC package: no eye contact, etc. I think close contact disrupts the world she's created in her head about me.

[skyhigh]

Gump, I read just a few of your posts.
Usually deadlines don't work well on MLCers, it will just push them even more. But boundaries work pretty well, at first they will fight them.
According to what I read your wife is full "cake eating" she is using you for her needs (free time. money, lodging, taking care of the kids...). May be you should review those boundaries?
Getting mad or upset are a big NO NO.
Remember that a extremely long journey, stop trying to solve it in a few days or months, trying to rush it won't get you anywhere. Be patient and detach +++ (stop reacting to her, stop looking at her with puppy eyes if you do, stop trying to figure out what she wants, what about what do you want right now and it's ok to re-assess later on but at least have a idea for now.. sorry for the 2X4).
Also in you case, do you know if your wife as an OM?
I will try to post later or tomorrow on your post.

[Surfer]

Sara

Reacting is your big thing. Your anger. Is this FOO stuff, habit etc? Might want to ask you IC to help you spot where it started and why? If it's habitual and you find it hard not to you might benefit if you can 'replace' this habitual response with another. JMO.

Pay no mind to his actions. They all do things which appear to be there to rile us. Perhaps they are not. Perhaps to them it makes sense. We all do only thinks that make sense to us. For some reason riding in the back makes sense to him. You just don't know his reasons. Don't worry about that, just know he is doing this for the right reasons (in his own mind - which is messed up). Don't turn it into a need or desire to control. You don't need to. Again that's a bad habit. It winds you up and puts you at risk of a spew!

You can do all this, we all falter. I am impressed.

Surfer.

[SM34]

Sara, I have read up on your story. Firstly, I'd like to say that you are a very intelligent, well educated, articulate and interesting woman who also has a sense of humor. This is a powerful combination that puts your H already in the "fool" category for even pulling this stunt..

I see lots of positives in your situation, as difficult as that might seem for you to see right now. H will cycle between hot and cold all the time. Don't ride that roller coaster with him.

So I've seen you mention that he is "from a culture that..." and I see all the Arabic here and there. So I'm curious if you and your H have the same background? I do think information like that is quite relevant as different cultures and different up bringings can set up different expectations of marriage and different views on what is and is not acceptable.

You are doing great! Sit back and let H work through his problems. When he mentions a D, simply say "That is not what I want, but if that is what you want then I wont stop you form filing". Smile and walk away.

When he chooses to spend time with you and the family take that as a good thing. If he doesn't say a word, don't worry.. he is listening and he is watching. And he is trying to figure out if this is all worth giving up or not. A strong woman who loves and enjoys her kids, can raise two kids and baby, have a strong career, and deal with all the turbulence he is causing you, all while smiling and showing grace, is a MASSIVE turn on. He is watching and he is taking notes. And whether he admits it or not, he is unsure.

It is the times when they act the meanest that they are least sure about what they are doing. In his mind you have many negative qualities. Except lately you've changed and now he's not sure what happened to the old Sara. The new Sara doesn't have those qualities that he needs to use to justify to himself the decision of leaving his family. Men need a stronger reason than women do, because they also become part time parents (every other weekend in some cases). You've removed some of the big reasons now and that will cause him to be angry.

Be aware that he has re written your history together into something much much worse than your recollections of what happened between you. He tests you and expects to see that old Sara come through, ,the horrible person he has redesigned your character into. Why isn't she losing her cool? Why isn't she insulting me? Have I imagined all of her negatives? Maybe she isn't so bad. I kind of like this family. Wait, I love this family. What am I thinking? This woman has driven me crazy and I need to get out! I know how I can make her angry and she'll lash out and my reasons for leaving will be validated.

Stay calm and collected. He doesn't know what he is doing or what he is thinking. Common problem with lost souls. Sometimes he will seem like he knows exactly what he wants, and at other times he will seem like a little boy who is looking for his lost puppy.

Stick with it. Trust the process.

[SM34]

Think about this....

Love and hate all reside in the same emotional spectrum. They are not opposites at all. You cannot hate someone without also loving them. The opposite of Love is not hate, it is apathy.

When your H spouts anger and displays fits of rage like a little boy it is because he cares. It is when people act apathetic that the feelings are gone. Your husband has plenty of feelings for you and for HIS family. He's simply confused and looking for confirmation and validation for his long list of grievances you have caused him. Show him the better you, all the time. Consistently. Until he can't remember what it is he disliked about you. That is how you confuse broken people who want to cut and run.

[ForGump]

You cannot hate someone without also loving them. The opposite of Love is not hate, it is apathy.

SM34, this is beautifully put.

But then I got to thinking about some current political figures, then I realized I can certainly hate people w/o loving them.

Anyway, I think wayward spouses at least CARE ABOUT their LBS's (in some twisted, confused way). But yes, to the extent they are pushing you away, they are attached you.

[PsySara]

Skyhigh,
This is tricky because previously when I have detached WH feels I am basically not caring about him anymore. We continue this cycle of him being cold and distant, not talking and being hard after we argue. Surely there is a way to disagree without argueing? Without WH jumping to the word divorce? Why is it that the cheater is the first to pull the plug? I find myself in the bizarre position of treating WH as if he is the victim, the betrayed. This is the part I struggle with the most. My fantasy would be for him to have a bulb moment and realize what a monumentally stupid/horrid thing he did to me. That he realize I am worth 100 of the OW. But she dumped him and now he thinks I am this ugly ogre or something. I only have to slip up and suddenly he is back to painting me as some witch. When he was mentioning he wanted to divorce the other night he said it was so he "could heal." It's backwards thinking like this that spins me. Heal? From what? Cheating on your pregnant wife, promising her you would never do it again and then jumping in OW's vagina mere days later so she could dump you 4 weeks later. Yeah, he needs healing, huh?

Surfer,
My mother has undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder so I picked up a LOT of maladaptive coping behavior that I largely had disposed of. However when WH began cheating I went nuts and regressed. I've been slowly regaining my ground but there is something about a cheating spouse (a remorseless one to boot) that is crazy making.

SM34,
Thank you so much for your time and insight. My WH is from Southeast Asia (moved to the US when he was a teenager) and I am a mixed mutt American. We are both Muslim, he is born and I am a convert of over 10 years. The Arabic sayings are that of religious nature. Culturally my WH is a bit of an oddball, aside from the food he doesn't have a lot of trappings of his culture. He is fluent in another language but mostly speaks when on the phone with his family. This time I am being steady as a stone, I making very small goals (spend about 30 mins a day with WH peripherally all decked out, warm, happy, sexy so he gets to observe me) Now instead of reading his coldness and grumbling as a negative thing I am viewing it more positively, as long as he is ambivalent then there is a sliver of space for me to wedge some doubt in there.I am wondering when to insert a warm touch or rub...these were things that had the most profound change in the past. The trick is finding that right moment, otherwise it explodes, ya know?

Tonight WH was very aloof and cold again. I came home from the gym and WH was already home, he quickly left to buy his dinner. In the meantime I showered, reapplied my makeup, dressed very provocatively (I admit I like making WH squirm and I know how to do it) and made the kids dinner. WH came home, barely looked at me and mumbled responses to me. He then went to play with the cat. I ran the kids bath and I heard the hallway door slam. When I bathed the kids WH was already in bed by 7pm. And there he has been since then. Meanwhile I read the kids bedtime story and snuggled on the couch until I brushed their teeth and put them to bed. I am actually very tired from the gym and feeling okay. Each day that passes without him filing for divorce is the gift of time and I am using it.

I have been doing some VERY deep introspection about my anger and how to master it. I find I don't like myself at all when reacting in anger. I say and do things I deeply regret afterward and it destroys trust and love when I react. I look back and remember how this modeled for me by my mother and her husband(s). (she is on her 5th marriage...we all need hobbies I guess) I will NOT end up being my mother.

[skyhigh]

Great post SM34, I am totally with you with what you wrote.

Sara when you detach, you are detaching from reacting to their words or acts but you can still care for them and do act of kindness from time to time as you would do for a friend (a meal, a cake, his favorite gums, his favorite snacks... whatever you can think he might like).

You cannot analyze his words for what they are because they don't make sense, you are trying to make sense of the words of somebody who is in total limbo. MLCers need to persuade themselves that they hate us so they can justify their words and actions. They are in so much pain that they need to spew and hurt us deeply even during when they are ambivalent, it's like they want to push us to make a decision so they can be relieved of making one.

I totally agree with you how infuriating it is when they are playing the victims, ignoring the pain they caused us (our son went into deep depression and tried to kill himself while he was back in contact with OW1). I just wanted to jump to his throat... he took and it still takes a lot of self control not to react to some words (piecing is not a road paved with flowers, it's still a roller coaster but not as bad as before). MLCers are selfish by nature they are just interested into themselves, keep that in mind, you absolutely cannot make them see things the same way you see them. Their mind is NOT rational.

STOP analyzing his words, you are torturing yourself for nothing. I went though that before you and now I can see it was just pure waste of my time, energy and mental health so please detach and GAL until he figures out what he wants on his own. Don't pursue him in a sexual way, just try to be his friend first, the rest will come on his own, otherwise he might feel pressure.

That why you need boundaries and no verbal arguing, the same as with teenage boys, that's what my male colleagues taught me on day 1 a few years ago.

[Surfer]

Sara,

It is crazy-making. But I have very firm and unshakable confidence that you are able to learn to control this behaviour. I know this because I have. You can and will if you choose to Sara. If my W was in a R with OM now, I would wish them well. I genuinely mean that. At one point I would have been in terrified mode. Not now.

Focus Sara. You are in control of it all!

Surfer.