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A Message from Michele
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Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Gordie] #2724019
01/04/17 11:13 AM
01/04/17 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
Another question re how to respond to my W. Sometimes she throws out provocative assertions like "You will be remarried before I will, within three years." What's the right, detached response? I want to show I'm listening but I don't want to get emotional or say the wrong thing or get my answer used against me.


Those kinds of statement need no response at all.

Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Ginger1] #2724024
01/04/17 01:18 PM
01/04/17 01:18 PM
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Gordie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Originally Posted By: Gordie
Another question re how to respond to my W. Sometimes she throws out provocative assertions like "You will be remarried before I will, within three years." What's the right, detached response? I want to show I'm listening but I don't want to get emotional or say the wrong thing or get my answer used against me.


Those kinds of statement need no response at all.



So just say nothing at all?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Gordie] #2724025
01/04/17 01:19 PM
01/04/17 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Originally Posted By: Gordie
Another question re how to respond to my W. Sometimes she throws out provocative assertions like "You will be remarried before I will, within three years." What's the right, detached response? I want to show I'm listening but I don't want to get emotional or say the wrong thing or get my answer used against me.


Those kinds of statement need no response at all.



So just say nothing at all?


Yes nothing at all.


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: J5K] #2724035
01/04/17 02:51 PM
01/04/17 02:51 PM
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Steady9 Offline
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I might say,

Hmmm, I don't think about those type of things....


H (me) 52, W 42
M 15
D14, S12
PA June and Sept 2016
Found out Sept, confronted Oct
NC with OM since Oct, remorseful
Dating since Nov
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Gordie] #2724042
01/04/17 04:27 PM
01/04/17 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
Reading through all of these stories, there does seem to be some conflicting advice from my DB coach (trying to build connection) and the vets (tough love).

Building a connection and tough love are not mutually exclusive concepts. I am not sure who of the vets have been giving you what advice, but I think part of the disconnect may simply be the textual format of a MB versus having a conversation over the phone. From the vets who have gone through these types of situations, they know the importance of setting appropriate boundaries (for yourself) and building yourself up so that you are ready for a healthy relationship with your spouse...so that you don't gloss over fixing the problems that may have led to marital strife, leaving you more likely to repeat them.

But you most definitely can build yourself up and build a connection at the same time. The problem lies in building that connection at the expense of building yourself up. After all, "tough love" is still love, and it isn't for toughness' sake, it is for the sake of YOU.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Gordie] #2724043
01/04/17 04:31 PM
01/04/17 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Originally Posted By: Gordie
Another question re how to respond to my W. Sometimes she throws out provocative assertions like "You will be remarried before I will, within three years." What's the right, detached response? I want to show I'm listening but I don't want to get emotional or say the wrong thing or get my answer used against me.


Those kinds of statement need no response at all.


So just say nothing at all?


It's a ridiculous prediction and she's likely making it so that you can reassure her that you are still on her hook. She probably wants the comfort of knowing that her options are still open.

But you can't and shouldn't say that. So say nothing.

Don't water the weeds.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: PatientMan] #2724065
01/04/17 07:50 PM
01/04/17 07:50 PM
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Gordie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: PatientMan
Originally Posted By: Gordie
Reading through all of these stories, there does seem to be some conflicting advice from my DB coach (trying to build connection) and the vets (tough love).

Building a connection and tough love are not mutually exclusive concepts. I am not sure who of the vets have been giving you what advice, but I think part of the disconnect may simply be the textual format of a MB versus having a conversation over the phone. From the vets who have gone through these types of situations, they know the importance of setting appropriate boundaries (for yourself) and building yourself up so that you are ready for a healthy relationship with your spouse...so that you don't gloss over fixing the problems that may have led to marital strife, leaving you more likely to repeat them.

But you most definitely can build yourself up and build a connection at the same time. The problem lies in building that connection at the expense of building yourself up. After all, "tough love" is still love, and it isn't for toughness' sake, it is for the sake of YOU.

-PM


PM,

Thanks for your comments. I have read yours on other threads and I heed your hard earned wisdom.

I agree that a phone conversation with a DB coach allows for more nuance than a message board. I think where I and others like me struggle is that my failures in my marriage has been that I have been too emotionally unavailable/disconnected with my W and haven't spent enough time with her, listening to her and understanding her. So my DB coach recommends a 180 where we spend more time together, where I listen to her, where I am emotionally connecting with her. I'm doing these things which W likes but also trying to let her go, accept her decisions and detach (I agree with you that both can be done, even if they seem contradictory on the surface). Some vets say LRT or go dark/dim. This is where I get confused. Some say do not go to the friend zone. Some say remain friends. Some say keep having MR, other say don't do it, and others say do what feels right. I'm okay with contradictory advice as I think ultimately we all need to make our own decisions based upon our individual situations. I appreciate the advice that contradicts my own inclinations as it makes me re assess what I am doing and has helped me stop some of the stupid things I have been doing and thinking.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: Gordie] #2724073
01/04/17 10:25 PM
01/04/17 10:25 PM
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ForGump Offline
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Gordie-

I'm no vet but have been vocal in your thread. I find that the more someone's situation resonates with my own plight, the more passionately I write. Perhaps because I'm writing more to persuade myself than anyone else.

Anyhow, I do understand that warmth and toughness do often appear to conflict. I think getting the right mix of the two is probably one of the hardest things to learn of the DB approach. It feels to me a bit like a zen koan. It's puzzling yet it makes sense intuitively, and there aren't quite the right words to explain it.

Thinking more reductively and rationally, though, I think the key is to be warm within the boundaries you set but be clear-eyed and tough about the consequences of venturing outside of that. Give her your heart; but not your soul.

More concretely, in your situation, I think it means that as long as you are married and she has not crossed a boundary you set, treat her with warmth and respect. But, if she crosses a boundary or is fantasizing about life beyond that boundary, then give her tough love. Don't fuel her fantasies by letting her think that she can have her cake and eat it too. No, she can't go sleep with a 22 year old employee and keep getting all your love. Let her know that once she fires you as her husband, you will indeed no longer be her husband. You are not going to wait around and love her and serve her at her beck and call. You are going to move on and live your life.

Does that make sense? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I'm no pro/vet. But, as I said, your situation resonates a lot with mine -- more so in the last few days.

About your wife's comment about you re-marrying first: obviously, that betrays her insecurity and doubt about the fork in the road she is wanting, dying, to take. She wants you to comfort her by saying, "Oh no, I doubt it'll be me first; you'll find someone great first." Or "Oh no, I'll love you forever," the subtext being, I'll be your second-choice and wait around forever in case your first choice doesn't work out.

Maybe simply not responding ("not watering weeds" -- I like that!) is the wiser thing to do, but I'd be tempted to stick a small hand shovel under that weed by replying, something like, "Well, maybe. I might meet someone great quickly. Who knows. Regardless, once you let me go as a husband, I'm not going to keep living like one. I will move on and build my own life without you."

I wish both of us strength.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: ForGump] #2724074
01/04/17 10:46 PM
01/04/17 10:46 PM
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PatientMan Offline
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Well said.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year [Re: PatientMan] #2724088
01/05/17 04:00 AM
01/05/17 04:00 AM
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Did you actually read DB or DR? You seem to be mixing up the concepts


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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