ok, i'm 'refreshed' from what passes as a sleep filled night these days... grrrr .... is there any way you can get a day off from him? if not before your travels than while you are here? Can some kind soul in the family step in and give you some alone time? I sense you need to recharge your batteries babe. Honestly HaWho, I don't know how you do it?
Here's an odd notion: how about smudging your space with white sage? (you can buy it at whole foods) It always somehow makes me feel better? A reclaiming of space, as it were. Just a thought.
Alternatively, come over to the "After the Big D" forum to the scrabble party I'm having. Meet some new people. Hang out. Have some herbal tea.
sending {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
You know HaWho - I was thinking about something during my commute in this morning, and I wanted to run it by you because I thought you might relate.
As Catholics, marriage is a sacrament where the spouses learn about God by being truly intimate with one other person, vs Holy Orders, where those called learn about God by being of service to many. I've been thinking a lot lately about the sacramental aspect of marriage in general and my marriage in particular. I've asked myself was I truly intimate with this person? Was he truly intimate with me? Sifting through it all, the good, the bad, the ugly, I ask myself, "What is left? What is the core for me?" Despite it all, I love him still. It's painful to say as I don't see us having anything to do with each other beyond S. I don't think we will be friends, as some ex spouses are. Where does that leave it? I don't have any answers, but I know that I'm looking at the totality of who my husband is today, and I still love him.
It's not a romantic love. I know who he is at his core, underneath all the rage, sadness, depression. I'm sad that person is buried so deep. I've accepted that he is the only one who can dig himself out. I'm resigned that if he does dig himself out, I am in all likelihood not going to be there. This love I feel veers now more toward an unconditional love, where I expect nothing in return and don't need to express how I feel with words. It's more i think that it is expressed in deeds - like, I intend to support myself and close the wage gap between us to the best of my ability for myself, so that I'm not dependent, but also for him, as I don't want to be a financial burden on anyone, least of all someone who can't handle the stress.
People say, "But you are entitled to xyz" ... it's not about that. It's about being the best person I can be and in so doing, yes, he will get the benefit of that tangentially.
I feel that I'm not articulating this well and I apologize. Let me try again: essentially, because of the intimacy of the marital relationship, I feel that when I put my own reactions aside, what's left is love of an unconditional variety, which survives even if the marriage does not. Does any of this make sense??? I'm trying to work through it all and would love your thoughts on it, as we've talked about the Catholic aspect of it in the past and I value your opinion. Apologies for the hijack ... feel free to respond on my thread xoxoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
As Catholics, marriage is a sacrament where the spouses learn about God by being truly intimate with one other person, vs Holy Orders, where those called learn about God by being of service to many. I've been thinking a lot lately about the sacramental aspect of marriage in general and my marriage in particular. I've asked myself was I truly intimate with this person? Was he truly intimate with me? Sifting through it all, the good, the bad, the ugly, I ask myself, "What is left? What is the core for me?" Despite it all, I love him still. It's painful to say as I don't see us having anything to do with each other beyond S. I don't think we will be friends, as some ex spouses are. Where does that leave it? I don't have any answers, but I know that I'm looking at the totality of who my husband is today, and I still love him.
I am also a practicing Catholic and I wonder how my wife, who believes in every other sacrament of the Church holds no belief in the Marriage Sacrament. I questioned her once about it and she got mad and said that I called her a hypocrit. If the shoe fits.
Now answering your questions based on my situation I can say I tried to be fully intimate with her, but she was always reserved. Hence she wasn't truly open and intimate with me. Something always held her back. I was totally invested in my M, but I guess since she is out of the house and filed I can say that she wasn't. I wouldn't trade my kids or my M, but in a way I feel short changed by her a bit. Just a weird feeling.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
I'm not a practicing Catholic now, but I was raised Catholic and got married in the church. I truly believed in the vows.
However - my ex was unfaithful and I did everything possible to save my marriage. We did reconcile for a few years until he hit 50 and was off again in a cloud of MLC.
My feeling about it is, I DID keep my vows, and I did everything possible to keep the marriage together. Once he officially divorced me, I felt my obligation no longer extended to remaining sexually faithful. (This was, however, after almost ten years of dealing with his MLC issues and the marriage, so I felt confident that I wasn't giving up too soon. I might have felt differently if ours had been one of those speedy divorces that happen.)
Now he's remarried and I've moved on as well. However, I DO still feel some sense of obligation towards him. I don't interact with him any more than the bare minimum required for dealing with our grown kids. However, I do care what happens to him, I do send him occasional (rare) medical advice when I think it's something important he won't get from his regular doctors, and I suppose, if he fell into some terrible state of need, I would still feel it was my duty to provide care.
I remember a woman I knew casually when my kids were in school. I don't know any of the details, but she was nursing her ex-husband through a terminal illness. I remember thinking at the time how hard that must be. However, I think that if it came to that, I could do that for my ex EVEN THOUGH he has been a jerk to me, because that would be a fulfillment of those vows that I took so seriously.
Would my ex do the same for me? Not in a million years. Would I ever take my ex back? Absolutely not! But do I feel that unconditional - not love, but perhaps care - for my ex? Yes.
I think THAT is sufficient fulfillment of my vows. I don't think God means for us LBSs to live a celibate life while our ex's go off to a new life. I feel the vows may extend, though, to making our genuine effort to save the marriage, and to extending that care if needed in an emergency later in their lives.
HW, I keep on your posts and want to say you are doing so great with responding to his texts with human contact!! My H also feels safe behind that phone. I am really proud of you! For some reason, I imagine a really surprised look on his face when you do that? Lol. Good job
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
^^^ funny you say that M, that's my visual too!!! Hubs texts Ha, Ha pops her head in and answers face to face, Hubs jumps a mile and blinks in a confused way, like "what is this new mode of communication that doesn't include technology???"
HW great job on that as M said. I know I don't have a tenth of your patience!! xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Just caught up on the most recent posts. Love how the conversation starte with MLC hairstyles and then swings to deep theological conversations about commitment.
First, thanks to Bttrfly, Roist, Huddy, Esame, SBJ, KML and Mleigh for the posts.
Regarding hairstyle, maybe I should give h a scrunchy in his stocking and tell him: just in case you decide to go from mullet to man bun.
As for your questions Bttrfly, I understand what you mean. I read what KML wrote about the woman who nursed her ex and thought "whoa!! Not sure I have that in me." Thinking about it all, I guess what I learned is I have no idea what I am capable of until the moment comes. I don't mean to sound glib. But, looking back on certain things that have happened in my life these last 6 years, I have faced things I never thought would touch my life. And those things have re-shaped me. So I know more will happen to me and I will continue to reconfigure who I am.
Mleigh and Bttrfly, that is exactly how h looks when I confront him. The weirdest part? When texting first started to take place h vowed he's never fully take that form on as he felt we would all lose our way. And indeed, sometimes, I look at all the ways we can communicate with emojicons and I think: oh, we're going to be back to communicating via pictographs!
I find myself in this strange place right now. H's last PA text just really rubbed me raw. The best way to describe it is I feel like I'm winterizing a house. "Ok, this portion of the house is useless, shut down the plumbing and turn down the electricity so that the house has just enough heat so the pipes don't freeze. It just feels like I dropped to another level of bare bones.
It's the 1,2 punch of the most recent letter and the PA text. I felt myself thinking that there comes a point of no return. And though I have been polite I do feel myself letting go even further. It's kind of not so much letting go as it is "I totally don't deserve this."
Yesterday, I was in my room w s11 who he was at my desk. I was listening to something on my phone w/headphones in. H came up and talked to s11 from the hallway. Then he came in. Big progress for him I am sure. I probably should have taken off my headphones and been more gracious. But I didn't. I just didn't care. He stayed at least a minute. Huge for him.
Is it because he can sense my vibe? Is it because I've been going in his room more to address his PA texts?
Last edited by job; 12/13/1602:03 PM. Reason: edited posting per poster's request
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
No you don't deserve this. But this is just a phase youhave to go through.The other side is a better life for you. This is not as good as it gets. But you have been v patient. Job will say dig for more. Not to thread on her shoes, I will not say that. Instead I wonder how you intend to profit from your new " I don't give a d@mn" mentality?
Having a MLCer living at home is a nightmare at its finest. They are in your face all of the time you are at home. Your h is on the rollercoaster and the holidays aren't helping either of you. When are you leaving to visit your family? Is he still going?
Your new mentality of not caring about him and his behaviors, etc., tells me that you've dropped the rope a bit more and hopefully aren't reacting to all of his nonsense. So, what are you going to do w/this new found freedom of thinking?
As I have pointed out to many before, you will know when you've had enough. I hope and pray that the new year will be a far better one for you and your family.
