In the UK - PT21 feeling stuck

[Huddy]

Met one of my nephews for the first time (apart from Friday) for the first time in fifteen years today. Well, he's done well for himself. He's got a lovely little family of three and a nice wife. In an unbelieveable twist, they lived beside my MIL/FIL for a period a few years ago. I wonder if that is how he found me?

Anyway, in a bitter twist, I found out that his mother (my sister) abandoned him at age 20 and ran away with her new fella. He turned to soft drugs and got himself in a small amount of trouble, but after meeting his wife, he turned his life around and is now a manager at a manufacturing company. He asked about why I don't speak to any of my sisters, and he was slightly aware of what had gone off, which he had been told by one of my BIL's.

Another of my sisters wondered if we'd all like to meet up and talk, but I don't think I want that. The sucker to it all is that during his 'troubled' spell, he spent money on credit cards and ended up having to declare bankruptcy. Even though that is ten years ago, he still has difficulty getting credit and can't get a mortgage. That is one of the sad parts of life, and will always be a stain, even though he was, effectively, still a teen.

He mentioned that he'd found religion, which helped him through the tough times. Well, if that what worked for him, then great, but it's not my bag. He has a smashing set of kids and I'm really happy for him. We'll now stay in touch.

Have had the kids this weekend, which was good. My S tells me how much she misses me, which is hard, when I see W and she seems so content with her lot.

Another week chalked off the calendar, and a different one it turned out to be.

[NDY]

Hey dude.

I feel like a bit of a charlatan posting as I'm not doing DB anymore but I really need to ask this. The title of your post, and the closing gambit about another week chalked off. What are you waiting for? I mean really what are you waiting for? Is it your W coming to her senses?

Mate, when the people here say act 'as if' there is a very good reason for that. You've done some amazing and very Brave things since the chit hit the fan. But I get the feeling it's just a facade. Underneath I truly think you expect her to come to come to her senses. But what if she doesn't? Or it takes another 5 years?

Acting as if isn't about giving up. Not by a long shot but my man you still have a hold of that rope. Let it go man.

Peace

[HTM]

Huddy,

I'm only 9 months in so not in a position to offer you pearls of MLC wisdom, but I see a lot of sense in NDY's remarks. I’m still working towards dropping that rope myself. In some ways I know how you feel and why you look for signs in W’s behaviour/reactions. I still do it too but realise I must break free of it.

My MLC-er W seems to have a six-sense wrt my thinking sometimes, perhaps it’s my body language she picks up on. A few days ago my W seemed to read my mind, stating that I’m still thinking she will change her mind and recommit to the MR. I’m coming around to the idea that W’s MLC-ESP will only ever stop working when I am truly able to detach completely, and who knows it may be this very action that scares or jolts her out of the MLC rut.


Wouldn’t say I’m devout but do have some loose religious beliefs, maybe there is a higher power at work in terms of reconnecting you with some of your family? In any case, glad your nephew is now doing well and hope this relationship keeps going & growing.

Keep making the most of those opportunities with your children.

Rooting for you; all the best.

[Huddy]

Hi NDY

An unusually incendiary post! OK, I'll play!

I look at it like this. Dropping the rope - what does that really mean? Is it that we just give up and move on? With respect, it's easier for you and Sotto as you have had the dreaded D and you can now look for something new, in the probably knowledge that your other half ain't coming back.

To me, dropping the rope, means that I do everything for myself and GAL (in my own way) and I don't contact W. I don't see it as giving up hope. The alternative, which I'm willing to be corrected upon,is that I decide to throw caution to the wind and start dating. That, to me, seems to be what you're kinda suggesting. I don't want to date, because I know that if I did start seeing somebody, and W decided to return, I would drop them faster than a hot potato. So, I'm all out of ideas as to what else you suggest I should do to drop the rope.

As for chalking off another week and looking for signs, that's me journaling. I have nobody else I can talk with about this. My friends are 230 miles away; I work with some of the most patronising, self promoting, facile people you can imagine and we have a new MD who seems to be hell bent on trying to get rid of us all. I chalk off weeks, so that I can look forward to spending time with the people I love - my children.

Oh, and while I'm here, W has done another one of those dating site things again (left open on a tab, again, on my S's tablet), this one called 'Plenty of Fish'. As before,she hasn't completed her details, replied to messages or uploaded photos, so, if this is some kind of goading mechanism for me to leap in to begging mode, I'm not.

To be brutally honest, I am well and truly pi$$ed off with life right now and it suxs. I am doing my gym routine five days a week, with positive improvements, and I have the kids all next week for the first part of the holidays. Oh, W decided to spew at me about that as well, as she said I should 'consult' with her when I'm picking my holidays, as my SD will now have to catch the bus to college, because W is taking the kids to her parents. So, that's my fault then, right? No, it's not, and I'm not going to have an infantile fight with her over that bollox.

I think I have done as much as I can to distance myself from W and let her make her own mistakes and only when I'm good and ready will I throw in the towel (by christ, I'm so close right now) and sail off down the river. Right now, I quite fancy just taking off and forgetting everything. The only things keeping me here right now is my children, who I love so very much.

Hi HTM

I'm not normally so indignant or arrogant, but this past four weeks has been particularly trying.

I think that W's do have a six sense. I sometimes think that they are like cats; toying with us like baubles on a Christmas tree, waiting to pounce and then letting us off the hook for another go.

As for divine intervention, well, I'm not religious, but if some higher being has plans for me, I wish he/she would show their hand, as I'm really tired of this poker game and I want to cash out or win the jackpot.

Yes, seeing my nephew was a shock and just goes to show that wherever you are, if somebody really wants to find you, they will.

[Sotto]

Hi Huddy, I'm glad your meeting with your nephew went well. Yes, I would agree that the D can help bring closure - even though unwanted..

What I'd like you to consider is the ground between 'I'm attached to my W and counting off weeks of this MLC prison sentence' and 'I've given up and am dating.' Okay, I'm being facetious here - but I think there is plenty of life to be lived in the territory between the two 'states of being.'

I'm talking about working towards greater detachment and letting her be, whilst living your life as fully as possible, whilst also standing for the M if you so choose....

I can see that you are doing the latter, and I would love to see you progressing more with the former two. It reads as though you have put your own life more or less on hold until she either 'wakes up' or you 'move on and date.'

That's just what I'm seeing from what you post anyway...and I don't really think being D'd makes all the difference. Many posters here live full lives and are minimally affected by their MLC spouse's actions whilst still married.

Hope this helps Huddy, and I hope you'll have a think about what is being suggested xx

[NDY]

Hi mate

I think Sotto put it very well. It's like you're waiting on something. Anything to change this situation. But you can only make changes for you. What happens with your W is just as much up to her as you.

You're at that point. I was there not so long ago when you finally say [self censored] it and just go get on with it. It's easier for me because I don't need to lay eyes on my EX. Haven't seen her for months. Only communication is electronically. And I'm ok with that.

And that's dropping the rope. I don't look for signs and I don't look for hints. They say not to let the WAS affect your mood or anything else for that matter. That to me is letting go.

Example. I don't have my ex on my Facebook. Not interested in what she does or with whome. But then a few weeks ago a post comes up from my cousin who was out for lunch with my ex. My cousin. Why was she out with my cousin? Don't care. None of my business.

See the difference mate? If they were you I'd expect some mind of mind reading. Like the rings thing. I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Go have a great life Huddy. Keep posting here. I may even start a new one myself. Just because this is a great place to let it all out and you do. You say what you feel and wear your heart on your sleeve. I just don't want you to suffer anymore.

And dude. If you feel ready to date you crack on. But don't do it in the hope your w will get jealous and come running home. She may not and it's not fair on the other woman. Do it when and if you are done. Not before.

Peace buddy. You have my number if you want to talk one on one. I'm there for you.

[CaliGuy]

Hi NDY

An unusually incendiary post! OK, I'll play!

I look at it like this. Dropping the rope - what does that really mean? Is it that we just give up and move on? With respect, it's easier for you and Sotto as you have had the dreaded D and you can now look for something new, in the probably knowledge that your other half ain't coming back.

To me, dropping the rope, means that I do everything for myself and GAL (in my own way) and I don't contact W. I don't see it as giving up hope. The alternative, which I'm willing to be corrected upon,is that I decide to throw caution to the wind and start dating. That, to me, seems to be what you're kinda suggesting. I don't want to date, because I know that if I did start seeing somebody, and W decided to return, I would drop them faster than a hot potato. So, I'm all out of ideas as to what else you suggest I should do to drop the rope.

Huddy ... I was reading up a bit earlier ... nodding, shaking and bobbing my head. Just thought I would say a few things as some items jumped out and maybe it helps, maybe not ... like all advice its free to you but cost me a bit to obtain it.

Ok, the Dropping rope thing. Maybe ^^^ up there is what it means, for me when I say drop the rope, or I dropped the rope its basically saying I have reached that detachment point where whatever she does, whenever, with whomever its does not phase me, I have let go of that rope attached to her ship so she can go sail the waters she needs to sail and end up wherever her journey takes her. This does not mean I do not care, nor am I jumping for joy and moving on. Simply means I have come to a place of acceptance and realized by me holding on I was actually hurting her chances of figuring things out as well as my own in effect hurting us both.

As far as Dating goes, thats something that is as unique as us all ... I tried it and it was not for me, I was just not ready and the people I met were in a different place than I was... its a very personal decision and I can not recall one person in the MLC arena that has said ... "Hey you really should date" ..... in fact I read after all we have been through one should allow 3-4 years of healing and growth prior to even really considering it.

As for chalking off another week and looking for signs, that's me journaling. I have nobody else I can talk with about this. My friends are 230 miles away; I work with some of the most patronising, self promoting, facile people you can imagine and we have a new MD who seems to be hell bent on trying to get rid of us all. I chalk off weeks, so that I can look forward to spending time with the people I love - my children.

Oh, and while I'm here, W has done another one of those dating site things again (left open on a tab, again, on my S's tablet), this one called 'Plenty of Fish'. As before,she hasn't completed her details, replied to messages or uploaded photos, so, if this is some kind of goading mechanism for me to leap in to begging mode, I'm not.

She is still searching for all that euphoric happiness she is just certain is out there. I suspect this will not change anytime soon but its a shame your S too is being exposed to what mommy is doing, I would carefull watch how you handle this with him and assume you know better than to bring it up to her.

To be brutally honest, I am well and truly pi$$ed off with life right now and it suxs. I am doing my gym routine five days a week, with positive improvements, and I have the kids all next week for the first part of the holidays. Oh, W decided to spew at me about that as well, as she said I should 'consult' with her when I'm picking my holidays, as my SD will now have to catch the bus to college, because W is taking the kids to her parents. So, that's my fault then, right? No, it's not, and I'm not going to have an infantile fight with her over that bollox.

A very wise woman (uR) drilled into my head .. the anger is ok to feel ... just do not live there. We can always punch the air ad ask why me, this is not fair, this [censored] but all this does little to improve our sitch, our perspective nor our life. Let her spin and spew about what when where for the holidays this is just another reminder life is not that grand in MLCville

I think I have done as much as I can to distance myself from W and let her make her own mistakes and only when I'm good and ready will I throw in the towel (by christ, I'm so close right now) and sail off down the river. Right now, I quite fancy just taking off and forgetting everything. The only things keeping me here right now is my children, who I love so very much.

Getting closer, you basically have touched on the fact that as helpless as we LBSs feel ... its truly we who hold the cards and have the power. When and if its time to let it go you will know. For me I reached a point I had to, she has a long journey ahead of her and that in itself is tragic, what would make it more tragic is if two people lost 5-10 years of their life over one persons crisis, when and if she wakes and returns I will see where I am at that point.

I'm not normally so indignant or arrogant, but this past four weeks has been particularly trying.

I think that W's do have a six sense. I sometimes think that they are like cats; toying with us like baubles on a Christmas tree, waiting to pounce and then letting us off the hook for another go.

As for divine intervention, well, I'm not religious, but if some higher being has plans for me, I wish he/she would show their hand, as I'm really tired of this poker game and I want to cash out or win the jackpot.

Yes, seeing my nephew was a shock and just goes to show that wherever you are, if somebody really wants to find you, they will.

Man .... I can attest to that ... my STBX had me on lock down as soon as I moved she called me on it and there was no way she could have known, its like they absolutely have that MLC 6th sense. Thing is its only when you are nto staying where they put you do they care.

I will tell you this, this side of MLC is hard and I truly believe its a bit different for a LBH than a LBW, I carefully did not say easier/harder ... just different as laws of attraction go along with us men having to appear strong when that initial fear of losing it all makes us want to go stage 5 clinger.

You will navigate this as only YOU can ... people here like myself have done this that or the other and bottom line its about the personal growth for the LBS I feel far more than where the MLCr is and in what tunnel .... something out of our control regardless. I thought I did it all to the letter and my W did return .... not fully baked and I knew it but I had her back none the less and settled. Was just like that movie Pet Semetary where they burried the beloved pet/son and yeah ... they had them back but was very much not what they expected. In hindsight I needed more work as did she, I needed to be stronger to lead the way and not bend, not be afraid of losing ..... she needs still to face her own demons and come to terms with that. MLC is not a wait it out thing, lessons to be learned for both parties regardless of the outcome.

Good Luck.

[Huddy]

Hi All

Thanks for stopping by last night. As may have become apparent, my mind was not in a great place last night and I kinda just let it all go. Hope nobody was offended.

I am kinda at a place where W's actions don't affect me in the physical sense. Yes, I know she's trying to manipulate me in to some kind of argument or something to see that I'm still attached. Well, I don't take the bait, and I certainly wouldn't mention the dating site thing to her (it's actually kind of sad - not the site, but the fact that she feels happiness will come bounding out of the internet).

So, why am I so 'attached'? Well, I know that most of you know I live 230 miles away from my birth place and my parents are dead and gone. My family are nothing to me (read further up this thread for that reason) and most of my work colleagues are either too busy creeping to the new MD, or, fighting for recognition amongst themselves for promotion. I have a couple of colleagues that I talk to about 'stuff', but they're blokes, and they just don't offer that sense of knowledge. One of these guys is 'gay' for want of a better word, so doesn't really understand female relationships and the other just keeps telling me to tell her to 'f*** off'.

When we moved here, we surrounded ourselves with ourselves. We didn't exactly meet with lots of people and we put our heart and soul in to looking after us. My family fallout, put with W's problems with her family over the years (again, read back about her Dad etc.) meant we kinda just did our own thing. I got homesick and got a bit depressed for a couple of years and W pulled the 'I'll leave if you don't pull yourself around' line. That was about 10 years ago and then our S and D came along and we just got so intertwined.

We had a really bad spell at work, so the boss decided that we needed to start bonding and started 'nights out', about once a month. Initially, W said that it was a good idea, but slowly started to resent the fact that I went out once a month, whilst she was at home. She said 'you get to play at being an adult'. With my S's autism, I also started to work more hours as W couldn't work full time and I needed additional holiday days, as W couldn't/didn't want to look after him on her own through the full six week school holidays.

There was an incident, whilst I was at work, when she called me, in floods of tears, saying that she couldn't cope with my S's behaviour (he went through a stage of gouging at people when he was about 3) and that she was going to 'do something'. Obviously, I went straight home to sort it out and get help. For a short while, W was self medicating with strong cough medicine to help her through the day. I hope that helps you understand why, after all this, detachment is difficult.

She has kinda 'friended' my SD. Things like buying the same dresses and talking about music etc. (rap -I mean, why would a 51 year old woman, suddenly become interested in rap!). I notice that is now becoming a desert zone, as my SD has started spending more and more time at her boyfriends.

I definitely don't want to date. I did have a coffee with a woman in February and I knew instantly that, despite her attractiveness, if W had have come begging at the door, that other woman would have been left like yesterdays' old meal. That wouldn't have been fair to her at all, as she was also on the road from a divorce.

I have done some extraordinary things this year (Hong Kong, holiday on my own with the kids etc.), but I'm actually quite a home bird, and going to clubs etc. doesn't really set my world on fire. I don't do facebook, twitter etc., so I haven't got that to worry about.

Yes, I look for signs - didn't we all? She probably still senses that I earn for her, but I don't show it and won't be begging her back. I'm just, as the title of this thread suggests, a bit stuck, wanting to move forward, but not sure how I do that without entering some kinda weird MLC world myself - do you get what I mean?

I know the MLC'er has to find it all out on own, but what I just don't understand is, and tis is the killer question, why? Why can't they see that everything the need and desire is right in front of them? Why the destructive path, to find, judging by most people's experiences, everything was right at the beginning, or, just sadness, lonliness and pain? I suppose if we could answer all that, we'd be rich!

[CaliGuy]

Huddy .... all that ^^^ just honesty and I completely get where you are and the why's behind it. I too did not have much in the way of a 'support group' outside of this forum and those I did trust, well who wants to talk about a crazed MLCr day in and day out ... which is what this place if for, journal and vent and get it out which really does help just doing that.

Reading a bit of your post, have you ever thought that you both became a bit co-dependent? I know in my case we both were which really did not help her much as she was in the tunnel, torn on letting go completely and really getting into her tunnels ... the temp/anchor checks became exhausting and I was not strong enough to see them for what they were thinking foolishly she would be the record setting MLCr and be done with it all in a year. So over time I did things out of my comfort zone, I play softball once a week ... football once a week and like you from the sounds there is always work to keep busy.


As far as that last paragraph. They are so deep in the depression they really can nto see past their own interests, the chase to do what they can to avoid/stop the pain consumes them so one they do not even recall what they are doing much, two they really do not care as its a case os self survival. They have convinced themselves that what is right out in front of them is not going to help (They are actually correct in this ... we can not fix them) but conversely ... that we the LBS are actually the problem (Not true but will take them the crisis to figure this out ... if they ever do)
They need to get to the root of the issue, to do this they will pull everything out of the garden so to speak till they find that one weed that started it all. Not much we can do but become strong enough to allow them to freely go about on this journey and in the meantime its a great opportunity to develop into a very strong individual .... when and if they wake we will need every ounce of strength we can get.

[Huddy]

Hi Caliguy

Yeah, we probably we too co-dependant, but that was the circumstance we were in. I never stopped W having other people to talk too; there were a couple of people she talked to, but she found it difficult, in my eyes, to actually want to form a strong bond with anybody. Only just before BD did she actually latch on to a 'friend' who was having issues in there marriage. W though got burned on that one as they got back together and had a baby, reducing W from being a friend to just another parent at school.

Going to the gym is out of my comfort zone. Everybody seems to be younger, fitter, more exquisite that a middle aged, greying guy who is busy shifting weights. I'm quite impressed with myself though. I now have pretty good leg definition and my arm muscles have grown, meaning I now have significant upper body strength again.

I still feel that W's MLC ticked off when she entered menopause. I also felt she was getting depressed at home (am I the cause, working extra hours to cater for everything?) and I did ask her to see a doctor, but I was told I was pushing her and not soon after we reached BD. I still think it's all about her age and growing older, but I always told her how much she meant to me and how much I still fancied her. Ah well.