WAS or what (recap for me)

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Just taking snippits from my previous threads to have easier access to when I remove all previous threads. Please use my current thread for replies until I have finished this process. Thanks

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Initial summary first outlined here in april 2015

I met my wife in college when we were both 21. She was an exchange student over for a year. She ended up staying 9 years. About 8 years in she asked about moving home to be close the her family. I agreed and took some time to learn the language.

We lived together one year in college (shared with other students) and after college we spent two years living apart due to jobs in different towns. But she came down mid week and I went up every weekend. After that I found a job in the same city and we've lived together since.

When we first met my wife said she didn't want kids or to be married.......... normal at 21. At the time it didn't bother me.......normal at 21. But I eventually did see myself married with kids.

In the first year after we moved, she said she wanted children. I was delighted. We decided to wait until I finished a course. In the meantime I proposed and she accepted, but I knew she would due to subtle hints!

So we got married, had two boys and bought a house. A big part of the deposit came from my redundancy money. I don't regret that but now wish I had kept some. Plus my wife pushed for joint accounts. So now we only have that. Not important yet but could be...

I had a successful well paid job before leaving but with the barrier of the language I didn't try to get the same when we moved. I wasn't overly into it anyway. So it was a new life starting.

All throughout our R my wife has had a lower sex drive than me, but as the years passed the intimacy waned. At least weekly (often more) at the beginning to a few times a month (around marriage). Two pregnancies interrupted that cycle and honestly never came back fully. Though some weeks we did it a few times and then a month or two could pass. Now it is over a year.

I became depressed. The more I was depressed the worse we seemed. the worse we seemed the more I got depressed. This was a vicious circle that lasted probably three years. I was dark and even suicidal (may even have done so if hadn't had my boys). The exact cause of my depression is not certain, but not one specific event.

during this time neither of us was overly happy. About two years ago my wife wrote me a note stating things were not good between us, that she had been depressed when she lost her job and that some parts of her life was not the life she wanted and she had tried everything to improve us. She said she had no solution. Maybe this was my bomb after all. I reacted as best I could at the time, hid behind my depression and wallowed. I did reply to her twice but not like I would now if I had to respond. I think now I wanted her to reach out and help me, but she never did.

Six months after the letter she asked if we could have another child. I was reluctant due to me being depressed, us not being super and not financially secure. I now regret this sorely, not because I think it would save our R, but because since I realised I would love to have another child and to experience everything fully without depression. so it saddens me to think about that and worse still that we are not in a place where we can openly discus such stuff. (I feel I can still tell her anything, but it is not the same.) I did let her know I was willing to have a child but too late. It probably was too late when she asked too, as she admitted. Late as in her age)


I snapped out of my depression last Oct and wanted to save my family. during the depression I was numb and honestly didn't care if she left. I never wanted to leave her. Had I fallen out of love with her. Yes probably. But I now have no doubt that I want her, I love her and that we COULD be happy together. I will not give up on her, us or my family.

Last oct I started a treatment a bit alternative which involved talking and energy manipulation. Regardless of the type of treatment I started it to be better for me and for my family. Part of this unblocked blocked in emotions, which I tended to keep inside.

A few weeks later I got annoyed with my wife constantly texting beside me on the couch and ignoring me. It happened to be her male friend! I put two and two together and came up with fithy three. I read the messages and was mostly harmless day to day blah blah though I was refered to as a grumpy bear. Not nice but not false either. I didn't like it all the same. I misread another message and took up completely other meaning (rereading it I admit that). I told my wife I had to go think about us and her. I said I had read her messages and did not find it appropriate. I left the house. (midnight). I didn't get far and I asked myself if running away would help our situation or if it was what I wanted. I quickly realised (15min) that I loved her, wanted us to work and the best place to do that was from home. I went to the couch (I really am spending too much time with that couch, I notice!) but my wife did not come. So I reread all her messages. She eventually did come and asked if I was coming to bed. I said I was shortly. She added that he was only a friend and she was not going to repeat that and that she was nowhere near ready to forgive me for looking at her phone. I accuse her of an affair and the biggest reaction is about the phone.

In the days that followed I did everything you are not supposed to do. We talked about us. She said she was going nowhere and when pressed if because she wanted to stay or because she had to. Bit of both was the answer. She asked for time and would get back to me. It was never said that she didn't love me, that she wanted out or what specifically she was to get back to me about. At the time I was needy and didn't give her enough space though for me it was a long time.

I continued to spy but there was nothing suspicious but that meant nothing after I had already admitted looking. Sometimes there were small bits about us, generally negative. Looking back her negative texts seemed more specifically about me back then and more about us now (as in its not me its her.... blah blah). Over time I no longer suspected EA and continued reading as a source of info on how she was thinking. How wrong is that?!

Anyway I decided I needed help just before Christmas and I bought a save your marriage program. It had a lot of similarities to DR book but not explained the same way. This helped a lot with my head and gave me the mental strength to tough it out, although I don't always feel strong. This guy suggested that it may be beneficial to let wife know about buying the program as it demonstrated an action. I let it slip. The only reaction was that it was not my place to think for her, as I said I had the feeling she wanted out. I didn't reveal any details of the program and said basically it helped me decide if it was what I wanted and that was it.

I have not discussed our R since February. I no longer need her to tell me what she feels as I have a fair idea anyway. I probably understand better than her at this stage, though I am no expert.

I take heart from the fact that my wife seems to find almost everyone not to her liking. I am not alone, though obviously feel it most. Is it a mlc, I don't know and I don't want to grasp at straws. My wife is unhappy and does seem lost. If there was another man I would probably encourage her to go if that is what she wants. It is hard to see her unhappy and do nothing about it. But she has her own path to follow, hopefully leading to the same place as mine, but not going in the same direction at the moment.

I am sure I have left out loads but that is a lot to digest. Hopefully there is enough clarity in what I have outlined to get feedback.

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Post by Cadet 29 april 15

Originally Posted By: roiste
Is doing nothing not a sign of weakness or indifference?

Sometimes I think that doing nothing is an ACTION!
Whereas do something might be a Re-action.

I personally do not see it as a sign of weakness.
It might even be a sign of strength.

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Post by cadet 6 may 15

Originally Posted By: roiste
Communication.
Before communication was not my best point. Being mire communicative us surely a good 180 for me. And it is one of my major goals as per the steps in DR. I have eased back esp texts since being on the forum. I believe this is imp in our R and am not sure how to proceed. Any tips advice or comments are welcome.

I am not sure that practicing your 180 on her is a great idea.
You can try and measure the results, yet sometimes the sound of our voice can be seen as pressure or pursuit.
Originally Posted By: roiste
Asking:
I am trying to use a beginners mind and not assume stuff, but I have the feeling that my wife is not receptive to being asked for what I want in our R. Maybe I should try something small and judge the reaction. Do ye advise to let sleeping dogs lye for the moment?

This is again pursuing and relationship talk is not a good idea.
Originally Posted By: roiste

I am someone who always bottled up emotions esp negative ones. I never explode with anger. My wife has even given out to me in the past for never showing anger. I have shown it but more as a bad mood than an outburst. Now to not put negativity into the mix at home I am bottling up my emotions again. I read in DR of a guy who exploded angrily with wife and it was different for him and it was the start of them getting their R back on track. I thought recently about whether that could be worth thinking about in my case. The context would need to be right and definetely not anger in reaction to her. Any thoughts on this?

You know her better than anyone else.
Anger possibly as something that shows
your manly qualities as a protector.
I would think anything directed at her would not work.

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Post by Zephyr 11 may 2015


These are hard times indeed. Waiting, wondering, hoping, dreading...this is stressful. I know you are hurting and i wish that were not the case for you.

couple of things here:

First of all DB is about doing what works. if there are things you are starting to do differently and they are in fact improving your relationship with your wife, without compromising your integrity...then why wouldn't you keep it up. The 37 rules are huge, imporotant tools, but i think that sometimes some of the items get taken/used too explicitly. in my mind, they are all things that are meant for us to use, to stop pressuring your spouse. I don't think it is a bad thing necessarily start conversations with your wife IF she is receptive to it. if she is not (for instance if she says, that's nice or some other convo stoppers every time you try to start a discussion) then stop. Right? You will know pretty easily if this is working or not. Not every woman is the same. not everyones situation is the same.

yes, GAL is a good thing to keep you busy for the sake of keeping your mind off of your current situtaion. But, i am of the opinion that your GAL activities should start to be geared towards finding some happiness in your life, finding something that you enjoy doing...finding a passion...setting some goals...making you glad you did it. There needs to be balance in your life whether you are married or not. you need to be able to have a good time on your own. also, Happy person = more attractive PERIOD. our wives notice when we are projecting true happiness and when we are faking it.

your changes are for you, yes you will become more attractive to her, that is true...but that is not the main reason you are building yourself up. you are learning how to respect yourself again. you are learning how to love yourself again. you are learning how to become the best you, you can be. I am not sure that the advice to forget about your R came accross right or not, but certainly you should focus on you first and formost for now, YES???

last thing. If you wife is WAW, then she needs to have her space to make her choices. the pressure needs to be taken off of her. otherwise your actions will only push her away. I know going without sex is not easy, it is nearly impossible to deal with, nearly. guess what you can do this. You can work on your faults, to go have a good time, make changes to improve the interactions with W and take the pressure off of your wife. It has taken her likely YEARS to get to this point. It will take a long time for her to be able to fall back in love with you. No quick fixes, right? You get to truely decide what you can take and what you cannot. You get to decide how long you are going to fight for this marriage. You are here so i am guessing you are in for the long haul, which by itself...i am proud of you!

Uncertainty, fear, insecurity...these are all understandable. Accept one simple fact for your own sake, that there is a chance that all of your efforts may not be enough to save your marriage...BUT if this happens you will still be OK, because you will have made yourself a fun, exciting, attractive guy who will be beaming with self-confidence and self-esteem. You can get through this!!!

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Post by Zephyr 18 may 15

In a sense I have been happy with my crumbs whilst waiting for something else. My wife doesn't cringe at my touch but does not initiate touching. I guess I was settling for being allowed to touch. By touch I mean physical contact, hand on leg type of stuff, nothing more elaborate. Same in bed I would leave my arm extended and have contact. Whereas this was probably reassuring for me, it also made me feel pathetic. I have pulled back on initiating touch and although preferred more contact, I feel a bit better for not settling for crumbs. I sleep a bit better too.

Good, it does feel like 'groveling' for tidbits that she will allow. glad you see this.

I am becoming less concerned about my wife's reactions and am trying to be less affected by negative signs. Positive signs too.
I am preparing myself for the possibility that we may split and am starting to think about practicalities. That being said I am not going to move on that as if she wants out she will have to do the necessary herself. But I owe it to myself and my sons to have thought it through.

Wonderful. This is not easy for most of us and if you are being honest with yourself, then GREAT WORK. Have you done some research with local lawyers for custody information or ultimately preparing for what a divorce could entail. it will help you with the fear aspect of things, to help you understand what YOUR rights are and to help you figure out that you will survive / thrive no matter what happens.

Stay positive!!!

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Posted 21 may 15

Here's the interesting thing about DTR. When the LBS suddenly (without any announcements or warnings) just lets go of the emotional rope and drops it at his feet, it is like a jolt to the WW. She will nearly fall on her face b/c she's not expecting no resistance from him. She may or may not have an initial anger about it, but usually she is puzzled and distracted by what he's doing. So then she will start doing things to get his attention again, b/c she wants him to pick up that darn rope and start pulling. She wants him to be affected by her! If he will just leave it alone, it works inhis favor.....b/c aWW knows when he really has dropped it. It is very effective, and has agood chance of drawing her toward him b/c she's interested. Getting him interested in her becomes a challenge she will usually take every time. Crazy, huh?

You have to do it for real, not just a gimmick to get her back. B/c if it's not real, you'll be looking back to see if she's watching you. And if she sees you looking back......the whole thing is blown. "Hey, did you notice I dropped that rope? How do you feel about it? Want to talk it over? Want to know what to do so I'll pick it up again?" None of that kind of stuff.

Some of sandi's wisdom from another thread.

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Posted 26 may 15

That's really the thing. I don't have any clue about how often this works. But I know that begging, reasoning, crying, etc didn't and doesn't work. And even if it got her to stay a little while, I don't see how employing those behaviors would lead to a significant change in the M - so we'd be stuck in the same place or right back here afew months later. So I truly believe this is the only way.

As for pushing her away, that's what it feels like. But you're really not. Think about it like you're on awalk together and she's three paces ahead of you. If you stop walking, she might take another 1/3/5/10/100 steps before she realizes you aren't following anymore. That's when it's up to her to decide whether to come back to find you or just keep going. She knows where you are, she knows how to find you. Luckily, you were the love of her life, so it's unlikely she will keep walking forever. Also, luckily, you haven't just been twiddling your thumbs while she was walking - you've been getting stronger, smarter, BETTER. So when she finds you again, she will be able to see those changes and take interest.

Another post borrowed from another thread. (Matt777)

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Post by sandi 27 may 2015

Sorry I have been so long getting back with you. I do want to respond to something I believe you've brought up a couple of times.
Quote:
I am still unsure of my actions due to the fact that there has not been a definite bomb drop. But the logic of the posts here makes a lot of sense.


I did not drop a bomb on my H. He discovered my Internet activity, and I discovered he knew his way around a computer a whole lot more than I gave him credit! I was so fogged out of my mind that I never thought he would actually "see" the conversations OM and I were having.

Here's the thing, as long as things are going her way, she may not feel the need to bomb drop. It really did not occur to me to do it anytime soon, although, I had started slowly preparing to find me an apartment. Crazy!

My advice would be to continue the 37 rules, detach, work on personal improvement goals, GAL, and use 180's.

I think you had a question about the conversations.
Quote:
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.


Although the LBH may not be able to see himself in a pursuing mode, trying to prompt her into conversations can be seen that way from her point of view. A lot of LBH's try to get closer to his W by having these conversations, and then over-kills by being too eager and too talkative.......hanging onto every syllable she says.

I would sum it up by saying, let her lead in conversations. Do not leave the impression you are giving her the cold shoulder or silent treatment. OTOH, don't be too talkative and trying to get her to talk longer. Women are pretty keen to spot this right away.

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Post 2 june 15

We watched a film at the weekend. In it a guy kept saying : "it'll be alright in the end, so if it is not alright, then it is not the end".
Seemed like a good way to look at things.