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Bfice3 #2658626 03/01/16 12:12 PM
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Congrats on the sobriety B, considering all you have going on that's really impressive.

We can rest on the 12 step issue, I am here when you want to post. It's ok, let's take the pressure away for awhile. I think there is enough going on and it's ok.

Keep posting if you can

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Bfice3 #2659303 03/03/16 12:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
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Hello DB Forum,

Been a while since I've been posting. Lot's of stuff going here. As far as the relationship with the WW very little good to speak of. My MIL came back to town this past weekend, and I had a feeling that her return is like a herald of things to come.

My oldest D told me last weekend that the WW had mentioned to her that the WW said she was going to fight for her two week vacation and the 'grandparents rights' and that not having that is 'affecting their quality of life' and the my D would probably not like how she fights for it. (I didn't ask for her to tell me this, she just mentioned it when I asked her if there had been any new information on the concert she wants to go to.

The WW just randomly sent texts at different times, one wondering out of the blue what I was paying in health insurance for the kids, and another a few days later, saying oh yeah I just remembered I don't have your address, what is it?

I didn't respond to either. But I did go ahead and start searching and asking about lawyers from several sources and got a few good recommendations on the one I had already chosen, so I just stayed with her. I set up an appointment and went through the process of getting on retainer and told her I wanted to start up the separation agreement.

We went over all the evidence I have on the adultery, and what [censored] is that inn general, none of it matters unless someone is a 'dependent' spouse and just based on income its doubtful that I could be portrayed as the dependent spouse. But...I guess it can still be useful for leverage in the negotiations. My lawyer also had a serious interest in knowing a lot about the OM which was pretty surprising. In fact she said a lot of things that just seemed contrary to everything I thought I needed to be doing. But...I'm just listening and following her advice as it comes.

I have extremely mixed feelings about this altogether. It just feels so final, and there is no way to come back after this. But, I suppose the truth is that it was over long before this. My WW has interpreted the initial email from my lawyer as being an all out assault from me, and basically won't speak to me anymore. Which is probably fine, but I just have this bad feeling that she is going to really run this into the dirt in a way that will be bad for all of us. Although, the whole time she'll be saying and thinking and believing she is doing the 'righteous' thing.

All I really want is 50% custody, and 50% of the financial assets. Splitting up the goods in the house, I'm really not going to go too crazy about. The way I see it, most of the stuff in the house contributes to my kids standard of life and the more they have there, the more they have. I can get 'stuff' over time to fill up my place. Though, I would like one of our big leather love seats.

Yesterday, I was picking the kids up from school and waiting for them to finish up their violin practice. Our priest was out in the parking lot with the big box, so I walked over to help him load it up in his car, and we talked for a good 20 or 30 minutes. I gave him a pretty thorough update since I last met with him around New Year's. In the end he asked if he had my permission to call my WW and see if she would sit with me and him together and we could try to "get the puss out of the wound" as he put it. I said, okay (without saying what I thought my WW would think of that). I don't know if he'll call her, and I certainly have my opinion on what she will say about it if he does...but that's still where my heart is. I still wish that she would get her head out of her rear end and see what she is doing. But...I know that will never happen. She has dug in too far.

I've been reading a lot about narcissist's. And I've really come to believe that my WW very likely has NPR (narcissist personality disorder). Someone with NPR has such low self-esteem that they create this 'false self' that carries and faces reality for them. And everyone they have in their life is only their to reflect back to them their projection of that 'false self' and if they don't reflect back the correct projection they lose their value to the narcissist.

The narcissist will apparently go to any length to feed this 'false self' image. And reading about the behaviors here is what is really so frightening to me. Over the years I cannot describe the hell I have lived in where I have literally felt insane. Something would happen, and minutes after I would be accused of remembering it wrong. Or, I would wake up the next morning and be accused of something I did when drunk...and I would think, "man I must have really been drunk because I don't remember that at all". Events, and conversations, and opinions would constantly be replayed back to me in an entirely new way...and I always just felt that it was my own lack of ability, my own lack of human capacity for emotional understanding that made me so dense that I just "didn't get what was going on", or that "couldn't keep up".

The isolation of my personal life...the leaving behind of my family, friends, and all personal relationships...benefit the narcissist because it keeps me unable to see beyond the "cloud of confusion" the narcissist thrives on to be able to set the rules however they want or need to maintain their "false self" image.

How many times have I thought..."she's crazy, that didn't happen" and she would get so irate until I would apologize.

My logic was always overruled by passionate anger on her end...and then silence and detachment until I came crawling back asking for forgiveness...assuming the blame.

It's a real mess. But, the more I read about it, the more it makes sense. And, I think what has happened is that after so long, I finally stopped caring enough to reflect back happily that "false self" image she so desperately needs. So, she simply had to go get it from somewhere else.

I remember a few weeks before the separation I was talking to her trying to break through and "reach" her. I told her she has always had this "secret place" that I could never get in to. That there was always this part of her that was unavailable to me. Thinking, if I mention it, she will have to surely address it. But, no, she doesn't have to do anything.

The narcissism also falls in to line on how she can't or won't allow herself to go to therapists. Both times we went, she basically just wouldn't accept anything being negative in her description whereas I was always so willing to accept all blame.

I don't know. This whole thing just stinks.

V, I'm going to come back soon and start on the steps with you. I really need to do that.

So...I hope you are all well. I be around soon.

Later.

B


Me:41 - LBH in apt
W:39 - WW in home
Kids:D(15), D(11), S(9) - custody % 58/42
M: 15 yrs - DoS: 10-11-15
(PA confirmed 2-12-16; WW dumped by AP 11-6-15; WW dated 7-8 men in Jan '16 via Match.com)
Bfice3 #2659331 03/03/16 01:38 PM
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Bfice, I could have wrote your last post myslef. W has the same issues and they all stem from severe low self esteem. Same feelings from the past, it made me go insane and I was always the one apologizing in the end. That self she portrays is so believing at times it convinces me I'm wrong in the moment. Anyway, even if that's what she is (were not professionals so we can't diagnose it) it doesn't change anything. It's their issue to handle, not ours.

So, what are you doing now to live life to its fullest? Sure, events with W and family are going to be difficult but you can always find the moments in the day to be grateful and enjoy life.


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Fogg #2663169 03/16/16 01:10 PM
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How are you doing B? I'm awfully glad you finally retained a lawyer smile I know officially filing for separation feels final and horrible to you, but as you say, your marriage was over a long time ago. But that doesn't mean that you and your wife could never get together again sometime in the future, with a new, improved marriage. It just means that you are protecting your rights and your kids' rights.

Is your mother in law still in town? I bet she and your wife are feeding off each other's anger, and egging each other on. Ugh.

I have a couple of friends on this forum whose spouses are NPR. It's an awful personality disorder, one of the worst in my (uneducated) opinion. They felt the same as you, that sometimes they wondered if they had gone insane, logic met by rage, total altering of "facts," and them painted as the bad guy lying cheater. It seems worse for people who are sharing custody of their kids.

How are your exams going? Are you done yet? Have you and V started working on your steps? Let's hear some of the good stuff going on in your life! Are you making corned beef tomorrow? We're all honorary Irishmen tomorrow!!


Linda

Me 65, Ex 64
M 38 y
2 adult S, 4 G-Kids
MLC 11/07
BD 12/09
D 3/14
Dating nice guy 7/14
Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 129
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Hello DB Forum!

Hey Rosa! Hey V!

Been a while since I've been here. Lots going on in my life, and pretty much all of it is good, I guess.

I've gotten to the point now (I think) where I'm ready, willing, and able to move forward in my life, for me and not worry about the past or what might have been, should have been, or is going on in my WW's life. (That last part...thinking about her...does occasionally come up and it still hurts a lot...but I'm able to see now that holding on to any of those thoughts only does one thing...they end up hurting me...and only me.)

As I've heard said in AA (two versions):

1.) Resentment is a poison that we make for someone else, but end up drinking ourselves.

2.) Resentment is like peeing your pants. Everybody can see it, but you are the only one that feels it.

I find that I am happier now. I have tons of reasons I could be unhappy if I choose to focus on those things...but I wake up in the morning and most of the time during the day, I'm stress-free...and actually feeling happy.

My kids are happier too. So many great things are really happening with my oldest daughter in particular. She's 15. And she has struggled with introversion and shame...its just obvious to me. She is really so much a young version of myself. But the other night I got them all (3 kids) to get off of their electronics and 'lets just talk'. And my D(15) was actively communicating with me and I noticed it and was really happy that was she opening up and sharing and talking with me. Then I said something like, "even though I'm around you all less now, I think that this situation may actually end up improving our relationship" and my D(15) immediately chimed in with a big smile, "Yeah, you know what, I think it already has, I can tell already."

And that was just amazing to me. She has struggled so much, and my WW and her mother really emotionally beat my D(15) up...and to hear her say that was so awesome. I told her: 1.) I noticed that she was sharing in our conversation and I was glad that she felt comfortable enough to do so and 2.) That for her to say that she noticed the change was awesome because that means not only does she feel safe she is aware of it. It was just great.

I had the kids over for 4 days this week for Easter and we had a great time! Played outside a lot. My S(9) has gone football crazy the past year and just wants to be outside anytime he can and throw, run, catch, call plays whatever. We had a 'meatless' Good Friday with friends and had fish tacos. I grilled some salmon and cod and made a nectarine salsa and it was awesome. Then we went and did the candlelight Easter vigil mass Saturday night and again, just awesome.

What else...oh yeah...we went down to the St Patrick's day parade and had a lot of fun a couple of weeks ago. And I did something that I had been thinking about and just did it. In the car on the way back my 3-month AA chip fell out of my pocket. (My D(15) already knew about AA because of my WW and her absolutely terrible way of handling daughter IC session.) (Also, my WW and her parents are holding on to the notion of me being an addict as something that they can use against me. WW keeps saying things like, do you want your kids to know you're an alcoholic.) So...on the way back home that afternoon, I held up my chip and said I had something I wanted to tell them. I kept it short and simple. I said that the red chip is from a group I've been going to called 'Alcoholics Anonymous' and it represents me not having any alcohol for 3 months, but that (at that time) I was only a few days away from making 5 months sober. I told them my next chip will be yellow when I get to 6 months. I said that, to me, alcohol was something that was in my life that I wasn't in control of, not unlike playing electronics way too much, or overeating, or being extremely greedy, or anything else that could take over someone's life and that I had made a decision to get some help and get control of it. I told them that I was telling them for 2 reasons: 1.) I wanted them to know that I would always be completely honest with them and would share the events and struggles in my life...and that hopefully that would give them confidence if they ever needed or wanted to share something with me about their lives they could and 2.) I wanted them to understand that this was a challenge in my life that I was undertaking and I wanted them to be aware of it so that hopefully through my example they can see that they can overcome challenges in their lives. And that was about it. I asked if they had any questions or things they would like to say and everybody said no, so we just went and had lunch and went on with our day.

It felt really great taking control of that aspect, being honest with my children, and sharing with them the events of my life through the prism of the world as I see it...not as my WW will try to describe it...or anyone else.

Then...that evening...my S(9) and D(11) were hanging out and I walked in the living room and my son looked over and he said, "hey Dad, is there alcohol in beer?" I paused, and smiled, and, "Yes". He stopped, and looked at me thoughtfully then said, "So you haven't had beer in 5 months?" I said, "Well, on next Wednesday it will be 5 months, yes." He said, "Wow, that's really good. So...are you going to never drink beer again?" And I paused, and said, "Well...I can't say for sure, but that is the plan." And that was it.

So, lots of stuff going on. Moved into a 3 bedroom place last weekend and its really great. It was a much bigger emotional deal to me than I thought it would be, because its now like I have my own 'home' that is away from that life I had before. But...its great. Really. Still some good days and some bad. But...in general...more and more good days are happening.

On lawyers and the WW: The lawyer sitch is okay. My lawyer had suggested that perhaps I try to contact someone from my WW's work to see if I could get a witness about pre-separation activity with the OM. (In retrospect, I think I may have misunderstood her, but that's what I heard.) So, there was this guy that she works with who she told me she really doesn't get along with at all. I had met him a couple of times, and I called his cell # I got off of linked in. He didn't answer, but I left a voicemail and said, "Hey this is B, the husband of WW and I was wondering if you would be willing to talk to me about some things regarding WW. No pressure, and if you feel uncomfortable just don't respond, but if you're cool with it, I would appreciate it. Thank you." He never called back and I waited a day and called one more time. He didn't answer and I didn't leave a voicemail, and never called back.

Well...the following week...OMFG. So, WW was apparently out of town. When she got in town I guess this co-worker told her about my voicemail. So, sends me a text saying that I should expect a phone call from her office's (big huge company btw) security department to not contact anyone at her office anymore. AND, that she now has a security detail at her car and at the entrance to her parking garage to keep her safe from me. AND, she told me she was likely going to file a restraining order against me. I didn't respond to any of her texts. I also never got a call nor was I ever contacted in any way from her office or security.

So, then...the next day...the kids were back with me. And at 10:30pm I got a call on my cell from WW. Didn't answer. WW calls the apartment line. I didn't answer. The texts start rolling in: OMG I'm so worried about the kids! I don't trust them with you! You are acting so crazy and I just don't feel like the kids are safe with you. I'm going to come get them in the morning and take them back with me so that they will be safe. My mom and I are now carrying guns for our protection from you because you are so dangerous! ....I never responded...I had cooked baked chicken thighs and fried yellow squash for dinner and the kids were all in bed....then my D(15) comes out and says, "I just got a call from Mom and she wants to know if I'm safe, and if you are acting dangerous, and does she need to come get me and take me home." I still didn't respond to my WW in any way. Then another text comes in like an hour later basically saying...never mind. Freakin' crazy town.

Also...my WW had been telling me she had given ALL of our financial information to her lawyer and that she was going to get this separation agreement so cheap. Well...after over two weeks of trying, my lawyer finally gets her lawyer on the phone and WW's lawyer says that WW has provided exactly 'zero' financial documents and that all that he has done is guesstimating based on what information she has provided.

And then, last week I get a message from WW saying that she is getting a new lawyer and that I should expect to hear from him by the end of the day. Guess what...nothing...never heard anything.

So...that's a lot of typing and a pretty solid update, I guess.

I haven't been coming around much. But that's because I've been really busy and started legitimately working my AA program with my sponsor. Focusing on work. Spending the most I can with the kids when I get them, etc...

I do really like having this place as a resource. I've learned a lot here. And I will make an effort to come back and interact more. I realize that without interaction there's just no way for any of you to be too involved. But anyway..just wanted to share.

Take care all. Hope life is being kind to you all.

-B-


Me:41 - LBH in apt
W:39 - WW in home
Kids:D(15), D(11), S(9) - custody % 58/42
M: 15 yrs - DoS: 10-11-15
(PA confirmed 2-12-16; WW dumped by AP 11-6-15; WW dated 7-8 men in Jan '16 via Match.com)
Bfice3 #2665451 03/28/16 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 129
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Oh yeah...one last thing. Rosa...I've been doing terrible on my exams and eating. Gained 15 pounds from eating peanut butter and haven't studied at all. But...I'm getting back on track starting this morning.


Me:41 - LBH in apt
W:39 - WW in home
Kids:D(15), D(11), S(9) - custody % 58/42
M: 15 yrs - DoS: 10-11-15
(PA confirmed 2-12-16; WW dumped by AP 11-6-15; WW dated 7-8 men in Jan '16 via Match.com)
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