B's Bootcamp v3

[Bfice3]

Hey Thornton. How you doing bro?

So...here's me flip-flopping and showing my logical disconnect.

Today I had another session with my codependency therapist. Basically, its necessary for me (and all of us) to recognize that my WW isn't a bad/evil person necessarily. And, the way I would display that in relation to your post is to say, "our WW's do value relationships". I think its important for us to be completely honest. My WW would not have done what she did if she wasn't hurting and seeking love and value for herself. And, she has the right to want and get those things. I certainly disagree very strongly with the way she gone about making that happen for herself, but I am starting to see that she is only doing what she believes to be the best thing for her.

Now, this hurts like a mother to admit. It hurts even more to admit that my actions and inactions have contributed to her behavior. But, again, its the truth.

^^^^Who is this guy talking? And why can't I get him to be around 100% of the time and replace that other guy?^^^^

I hope you have a good day today Thornton. You deserve happiness to my friend. *e-bro-fistbump*

[Thornton]

Sounds like you are making strides, B. That's awesome man, keep going.

I agree with you, it's tough to look in the mirror and recognize we played a part in this. It hurts me too. Sometimes its easier for me to play the victim, to point fingers at her and assign blame.

My waw isn't a bad person either. But it makes it so much easier for me to detach when I think about all the sh!tty things she's done. How hypocritical of me huh? Like I wasn't an ass sometimes.

I'm realizing there are no shortcuts, B. Detaching isn't a linear process, nor is healing. I can literally feel good for half an hour and then fall deep into depression for the rest of the day. I don't like being on my own, it gives me too much time to be alone with my torturous thoughts.

In my earlier days, I would simply go find another hottie and fall in love with her. I see now that it wasn't healthy for me. I never learned who I was. I still don't know who the hell I am. So far, I don't like what I see.

That leaves me with a few choices: continue on as I have been or change me.

The hard part is that so many things are deeply ingrained, where do you even start to begin changing?

Anyways, rant over. You're doing a great job, B.

[Vanilla]

B

when you are ready let me know.

V

[Bfice3]

Hey Vanilla, how are you? I hope life has been treating you well.

I am ready. But...I guess I'm not exactly certain what I am supposed to be ready for. But yes, lets do it. I'm ready!

B

[Bfice3]

Hey RosaLinda, how are you doing? I hope life is being kind to you lately as well!

And more on your wife's lack of respect and emasculating you...Sandi started a great thread on this. Really eye opening, and a little upsetting. Take a look -- http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653323#Post2653323

Edit - Fixed Link - Cadet

I tried clicking on this link, but I get an error opening it. Says that the forum has a problem finding this in its database. Is this the thread of 'Sandi's reflections'? If so, yes I've read it, and yes it is upsetting. If not, could you try to link it again, please. Thank you.

Bfice (what DOES Bfice mean, anyway??)

Haha...well, its dumb and immature and related to some new methods of wording I have used. Suffice it to be that 'B' is a good way to refer to me. (In the interest of hoping to maintain some level of anonymity I don't want to fully explain it.) Though, I'm sure anyone reading this thread who may know me, would easily be able to figure out who I am.



Also...I finally did something yesterday that was just simply 100% pure unadulterated me GAL for me. I went to a meet-up for artists and made a 'monoprint'. Oil painting on glass, then press the paper on to that and get the reverse image as the print. My 'art' was less than great...but I had fun doing it, and it was nice to just sit and be creative and not really think about anything else.

[Bfice3]

Two things for input from anyone:

1.) I still keep having this desire to tell my WW that I know more about her affair than she realizes. I need someone to explain to me why I really just shouldn't. Giving up my ace-in-the-hole. Simply making her more angry for snooping again. Making her simply lie and say more hateful stuff. Stop being a wuss of a man and realize my WW is a crummy spouse and I should want to be rid of her. Why do I still feel like I should be able to have some connection with her? Why do I keep hoping that she will 'snap out of it' and realize what she has done?

2.) On legal stuff. I went ahead and signed a new contract to get a 2 bedroom apartment. Have to provide 30 days notice to the complex, so in about 3 1/2 weeks. I really feel that for the kids, for me, and for my WW...that moving to a week by week rotation of the kids will be easier on everyone and better for all of us. Also, when/if this switch happens I want to make it so that I'm not driving the kids on her weeks...that needs to be her responsibility. But my WW simply is holding strong to her position that not only is she not going to agree to the week by week rotation...she still fully believes that the kids should be 100% with her. So...how hard do I push on this? I mean...I'm asking around and looking to see which lawyer I feel most comfortable with and get a good recommendation from some people I know. I'll get them to form a separation agreement proposal...but...what happens when she simply rejects it? Knowing her, I expect her to go to her lawyer and get one that says the exact opposite which I will never agree to. What then? Will I just be spending money on a lawyer to make us all more angry with no real resolution or positive coming from it? Should I simply allow things to continue as they have, and perhaps tell her I want to back away from driving the kids on her days? My friend says I shouldn't be afraid or avoid doing what I feel to be right, if I'm doing it for the right reasons..ie the kids. But...I just know that I can't trust my own thoughts these days. It is after all, my best thinking that got me into this situation to begin with.

[RosaLinda]

Edit - Fixed Link - Cadet

oh Cadet, thanks for fixing that link for Sandi's Reflections thread. I guess I'm not very technological Yes, B, it was the same thread you already read. Sort of upsetting, made me wonder WHY my ex lost all respect for me. Probably had something to do with enabling him. Something else for me to work on.

Vanilla, I'm wondering how this online AA mentoring will work too. Will you guys start a private thread?

Also...I finally did something yesterday that was just simply 100% pure unadulterated me GAL for me. I went to a meet-up for artists and made a 'monoprint'. Oil painting on glass, then press the paper on to that and get the reverse image as the print. My 'art' was less than great...but I had fun doing it, and it was nice to just sit and be creative and not really think about anything else.

That sounds SO fun! My new guy's daughter and I want to go to something like that -- I think it would be a blast! I'm not too sure my "front image" would be very good, let alone trying to figure out how the negative of a painting would look, but it sounds fun!

No problem about not wanting to fully explain the B in Bfice, I understand the need for anonymity. My ex did not give a fig what I did, but a lot of people on here have spouses who stalk them. It always seemed so strange to me, to throw your spouse and marriage out the window, but then continue to spy on them? My real name is Linda, Queen RosaLinda was the name I always used when I used to play Civilization with my kids Dropped the "Queen" on the forum here, but you may address me as Your Majesty any time you want LOL

I still keep having this desire to tell my WW that I know more about her affair than she realizes. I need someone to explain to me why I really just shouldn't.

Didn't you already tell your wife that you know she had an affair? And she already lied and said it wasn't true? If you confront your wife that you now have proof that you know she was lying, and had an actual physical affair, she will get just get angry and defensive and lie. That's human nature, and cheating wife nature too. When I told my ex I knew about his affair, he denied it, so I handed him copies I had made of his emails. He threw them into the fire, continued to deny it, and started yelling at me for breaching his privacy and changed his password.

What do you hope to accomplish by telling her?

I think, as you live in a state where adultery can be an issue in deciding alimony and custody, that you should let your lawyer know about this "ace-in-the-hole" and give him or her your proof.

When the time comes to rebuild your marriage, it should not be built on a lie. But none of us see that happening anytime soon. I just don't think telling her right now will accomplish anything besides more spewing and lies, don't see her becoming overcome with remorse or guilt or anything like that and "snapping out of it." Maybe someone else will have better advice.

Congratulations on your new apartment! On this custody stuff

But my WW simply is holding strong to her position that not only is she not going to agree to the week by week rotation...she still fully believes that the kids should be 100% with her. So...how hard do I push on this?

I mean...I'm asking around and looking to see which lawyer I feel most comfortable with and get a good recommendation from some people I know. I'll get them to form a separation agreement proposal...but...what happens when she simply rejects it? Knowing her, I expect her to go to her lawyer and get one that says the exact opposite which I will never agree to. What then? Will I just be spending money on a lawyer to make us all more angry with no real resolution or positive coming from it?

This is divorce B. Yes, you will be spending money on a lawyer and making her more angry with no immediate resolution or positive. That is what happens. The parties make and reject each other's proposals.

Stand your ground and do what is best for you and your kids. You might ask her if she'd like to try a mediator first, but in the end, if you cannot agree, a judge will decide what is best for your kids. Get a lawyer now B. And give him or her your ace-in-the-hole proof of adultery and be honest about your drinking and attending AA, as your wife probably sees that as her ace-in-the-hole.

[Vanilla]

B

We can have a private thread if you wish.
Your choice or we can use your thread.

Already we have discussed steps 1 to 3

Step 1 We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

Step 2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

-----------------------------------------------------
Step 4 Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

Step 5 Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Step 6 Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

Step 7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

Step 8 Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

Step 9 Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Step 10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

Step 11 Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

Step 12 Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

---------------------------------------

AA says

Newcomers are not asked to accept or follow these Twelve Steps in their entirety if they feel unwilling or unable to do so.

They will usually be asked to keep an open mind, to attend meetings at which recovered alcoholics describe their personal experiences in achieving sobriety, and to read AA literature describing and interpreting the AA program.

AA members will usually emphasize to newcomers that only problem drinkers themselves, individually, can determine whether or not they are in fact alcoholics.

---------------------------------------------

I feel that you are ready to think about Step 4.

What is your view on it?


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Rosalinda and B I have thought carefully about this, sometimes this exposes FOO issues at that stage absolutely private.

I assume Rosa Linda if B is happy to move forwards you are comfortable to contribute if he requests extra support?

That would be good.

Rosa Linda I have put an extra request on your thread regarding another poster here who has a sitch that concerns me greatly.

V

[Vanilla]

You ok B?

V

[Bfice3]

Hey Vanilla,

I've been having a LOT going on, and frankly I get tired when I come here and have had some difficulty getting here to write. I will make some time soon to come in and start with you on the steps...I think I will want to make that a new thread. But...should that be a private thread? I'm not sure...I'm not sure what to think about a lot of things right now. I went ahead and made the move to retain my lawyer and get her to start the process of drafting up a separation agreement. She sent out the first email this morning, and as you might expect, the WW is not handling it well at all. But...my fear of her actions should not be a reason to not take simple measures to protect myself and my children. So, here I am.

But, I'm still sober. Still doing my thing.

I'll be in touch soon. Love you all.