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Huddy Offline OP
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Hi Roiste

Keeping the party line! It is difficult though, when you see somebody you love, falling apart, blaming you, and not being able to do a thing.


M 45 W 52
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I understand, but it is what you need to do.

Out until 3 again! Life is not all bad I see.Haha


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
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hey Huddy,

My sitch was different from yours - as you know - but i don't think you should think that the road to depression is the "other" road here, as opposed to holding out hope for your R.

As there isn't another man here, it certainly seems like MLC, and it is perhaps easier for you to forgive your W, focus on what was +ve in the R, want that back etc. Tell/convince yourself that it isn't her fault and you can be the ricksha needs, the lighthouse, whatever.

Whilst it may not be inherently her "fault", and indeed she maybe suffering in herself, manifesting in MLC- I could (and have) argued similarly for my W. In hindsight our R sucked toward the end, and so it isn't really her "fault" for being attracted by OM. The R mainly sucked because she was too self-centred to even talk about changing. As far as she was concerned, she was perfect and if I had a problem the I was the one that needed to change. This may've been right, but in hindsight, and with the support of friends, I realise now that she wasn't quite right upstairs. So maybe I can blame it on that, forgive her because thats the way she always was, and "hope" for the R. In my case though my W has been very helpful in encouraging me to not want the R.

So what I am saying is MLC,mental illness, it wasn't there before but it is now, or to a larger degree - it doesn't really matter. We all live on a spectrum of MLC, depression , narcism, etc all of our lives. And the spectrum also evolves throughout our lives. The person she is now is not the person you were happily M'd to, and she may never be again. She is in a different place amidst all of these spectra. That is not her fault. And so are you BTW. So whether she is "healed", my W's OM is gone, it doesnt mean that our lives even have a chance at being aligned again.

"Open to reconciliation, not waiting". Sure be the rock, you already are, but come to think it - i think the lighthouse is too much like waiting. You've spent a lot of energy on this, probably way too much. The truth is there are only two outcomes here, either you R or you don't.

If you don't then definitely wasted months/years here. If you do, it won't be because of the energy you have spent worrying about your every encounter. It will be because you are "Open to reconciliation". To reconcile means she has to want it. You shouldn't "wait" for her to ever be at that point. Its not even realistic, all this water that has passed under the bridge the past year. Imagine another passes, or maybe even now, she is also open to reconcile and you then discover that hey - she's not the same person she was a year ago, neither is Huddy.

S/D in the western world is horrendously common. whether it is due to infidelity or MLC or infidelity inspired by MLC doesn't really matter. Sure it would be nice if people had MWD's approach to Rs. Sure it is all unfair, not right, but that's life in our modern age.

This might be very controversial here, but i wouldn't worry about GingAL. Focus on being "open to reconciliation" and "not waiting". This doesn't mean losing hope. Actually it means having greater hope, that you will have a fruitful life regardless of where she is up to. GingAL,genuinely will just follow. You might even meet another lady one day and she comes around to reconcile at which point you might even say "Geez - i wanted that and spent so much energy on that for so long, then I let go of hoping/waiting for it to happen and just let it tag along behind me while I moved forward, and now I kinda got this other thing happening (or maybe you don't even have another woman) and I just couldn't fit it in with who i am now"

I don't want to suggest you abandon hope, just focus your hope somewhere else. You've been struggling for along time my friend and I really think it is about time to live for you, FOR YOU, not to better your chances of attracting her back. I'm not saying "screw her", I'm saying forget about her. If you want to look at it another way, when you "forget her", you will be truly "dark", and she will be confronted by the image of Huddy that you have been trying to artificially project. And before you say it, you can still be supportive etc - you don't have to add probably cant turn into an arsehole.

-Py


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Hi Py

Nice to hear from you! Firstly, I think we both knew that your W's R with the 'Passport Chaser' wouldn't last. How are you doing? Judging from the above statement, it doesn't look like you have any chance of R. Has she asked to talk to you? How are the kids?

I hear what you're saying and, you're right, of course I'm 'waiting' for her to change her mind. You get subtle hints from time to time that all is not well and that she is regretting her choice. Why am I waiting? Well, it's like this, I don't want to give up on an R. I'm not, however, sat around wringing my hands, doing nothing etc. I am proactive in getting myself fit and in the correct shape/mindset for an R with whoever is next. I am hoping it is my W, but if not, I have to be ready for the next R.

You will know that with kids, you can't go dark. That, of course, is a problem as I don't feel that they can truly feel loss, as you are in contact/seeing each other when you swap over etc. In a way, I sometimes wish that she was having an A, and that could help in her seeing her loss. Maybe someone has an answer to 'providing loss' in a childcare situation?

As for GALing, it's on an 'as and when basis'. I'm not out every night, but am enjoying the gym, if only to see how the knuckleheads perform in front of the mirrors! I'm bust at work and with the kids, so it would be difficult to fit anting else in.

Depression, getting low, however, I do find to be something to watch out for. Quiet times lend my mind to wander and I have to watch for that. I'm probably not a perfect DB'er by any stretch of the imagination, but, I don't feel ready to give up on my M; I feel we can repair our R, but I just wish I had a solution to break the limboland feeling I have.


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Originally Posted By: Huddy
Hi Py

Nice to hear from you! Firstly, I think we both knew that your W's R with the 'Passport Chaser' wouldn't last.

hey mate, i'm really glad you replied. I was worried I might have been a bit harsh. but Suppose apart from being a tough Scottish lad, you have been through much worse frown


How are you doing? Judging from the above statement, it doesn't look like you have any chance of R. Has she asked to talk to you?

Wife is living with OM. I even get to see him sometimes. No chance of R here. She hasn't asked to talk me to me at all. Frankly, I am not interested anymore. All the past stories - I still have at least one per week BTW. Now that I am free of the "love spell", I can see it so clearly. I absolutely have my own faults, and I don't discount these, but W is bordering on sociopathic. Almost all of my friends have commented that she always was a bit odd, but she came across as basically sweet and naive and I seemed happy, so they all let it be.

How are the kids?

The kids are great smile. She lied through her teeth in court proceedings, and I was lucky to get back to 60/40 custody. Still, that is insanely lucky compared to most fathers. I am cut because apart from breast feeding I did the parenting, and still do. I just had them for 9 nights straight over the Easter and school holidays. After a few days I realised that I hadn't thought of W at all, and in fact I would much rather life to be just me and the kids, no W. Saddly, tonight they are back with their Mum and I am alone. We had a ball though. Last night we camped out in the living room. My (now) 5 year old still wants to live with me. Apart from her 5 year old reasons, it is basically because I treat her like a kid, not a baby. For e.g. W still brushes her teeth, dresses her, bathes her. I teach her, let her do it herself. Same in the playground etc - BUT there are boundaries. Part of W's sociopathic nature and big part of S is that she "needs" the kids to be dependent on her. I always argued (and lost) that this is not going to help them when they hit school/life - and guess what has happened!!

I hear
what you're saying and, you're right, of course I'm 'waiting' for her to change her mind. You get subtle hints from time to time that all is not well and that she is regretting her choice. Why am I waiting? Well, it's like this, I don't want to give up on an R. I'm not, however, sat around wringing my hands, doing nothing etc. I am proactive in getting myself fit and in the correct shape/mindset for an R with whoever is next. I am hoping it is my W, but if not, I have to be ready for the next R.

While you are hoping it is your W, I don't think you are preparing yourself at all for another R. wink (whack, whack 2*4).

Early on at DB I got the lecture about any R with W would be a new R, not the old one, not even glued back together. Of course their is going to be history but it will be a new R. So take her off the pedestal sandpit her back down on the same rung as the new girl at work (or whoever).


You will know that with kids, you can't go dark. That, of course, is a problem as I don't feel that they can truly feel loss, as you are in contact/seeing each other when you swap over etc.

Unfortunately I do know. This was a big problem for me in the beginning. In my case I noticed that she didn't even give [censored] if I was dark or pale yellow. She was just delirious. Some of the [censored] - OMFG! But yeah - inevitable contact makes for a minefield.

In a way, I sometimes wish that she was having an A,

This I can empathise with

and that could help in her seeing her loss.

but not this! Huddy, if she was in the middle of an A she doesn't see any loss, only riddance and gain.

Maybe someone has an answer to 'providing loss' in a childcare situation?

Dude - whack whack again - you are hurting yourself over and over again - you are trying to snap her out of it!! snap YOU out of it!!

OK - you make sense - to me - but guess what - not to her you don't. You make as much sense as the idiots you both criticised while watching the news together 5 years ago - "WTF are those guys thinking?", you said. Andy were in agreement. Now you are those idiots. MIL and SIL are watching the Huddy channel and saying "WTF is he thinking?"



As for GALing, it's on an 'as and when basis'. I'm not out every night, but am enjoying the gym, if only to see how the knuckleheads perform in front of the mirrors! I'm bust at work and with the kids, so it would be difficult to fit anting else in.

I don't mean to distract you from this at all. good stuff.


Depression, getting low, however, I do find to be something to watch out for. Quiet times lend my mind to wander and I have to watch for that. I'm probably not a perfect DB'er by any stretch of the imagination, but, I don't feel ready to give up on my M; I feel we can repair our R, but I just wish I had a solution to break the limboland feeling I have.

"the limbo land feeling that YOU have".

OK lets start here - i don't want to sound like I have the answers or I am an expert who is qualified to give advice. I have been "around" this area, this beautiful, grassy parkland, bullshit, WAS area.

Focus. It is all about focus. Not being focused on a goal but whatever it is you're focused on. Right now you are focused on your W. That is clear. That is admirable and I envy that you do or ever had such a beautiful love in your life. But focus. So many points of advice start from the top down, but I think it is more useful to start from the bottom up.

Get comfortable, however that is and take a deep breath in and exhale with the same force. Just do this for starters. When you are ready, breath in and imagine that you are breathing in all the energy that was meant for Huddy, all the things that make you feel good, whatever they are and exhale all the bad stuff that has accumulated inside you. Even this can be broken down into a million parts and can be the focus for years.

When you are mildly relaxed, it is probably effective to begin to explore focus. You can do this anywhere, in your home, on the train, with a CD, etc. My favourite is the beach or a mountain stream with a waterfall. On the beach I first focus on the waves, the water. Then the wind. Then the sounds around, the birds, the kids playing, the people walking. Then I feel the wind. I feel the sunlight. Where it strikes me. I feel the cool/warmth. One by one. Then return to your breath. Then go around and around. Guarantee you it won't take long before you can sense all these things individually.

OK - so the [censored] what. The point is that each one of these external things have been perceived by you,and enhanced when you focused on them. The Buddha describes every little event as a "dependent arising". There is nothing religious or god like about this. The Buddha simply asserts that "our lives" are made up of dependent arisings. So yeah- from the top down you might say "It is not what life deals you, it is how you deal with it". The point is that when you can experience this from the bottom up - "the sun is warm on the right side of my face, the winds cold from the left, the kids playing behind me, each chord of the birds, the shark patrol airplane above (Australia remember wink )" - It makes it much ....simpler, to deal with the more complicated "dependent arisings".






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^^^^^^^ Great post

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Hi Py

I'm a Yorkshireman, living under a flag on convenience!

I thought your EXW had left OM? Sorry for any confusion. Yes, she sounds like she has turned in to 'ultra bitch'. I'm glad you and the kids are doing well, in the circumstances. They will see her in her own light soon enough.

I'm not looking for another R with somebody else right now. Maybe I should have said a new R with W. I'm trying not to mindread etc., but I do pick up on things and of course I still hope. With the kids, and what they say about missing me and 'Mummy not happy you were out on Friday', still makes me think that something could happen.

The loss business is difficult. I don't call or start convo, but how can loss be felt if you se each other twice a week? I still think she hasn't felt that. That's a key.

I don't feel that I'm hurting myself, I'm just trying not to fall in to a depressive trap. My focus, is fitness. I lost weight, but I need to get toned up now. So, why? First, it's for me. I want to look good and be around for the kids in years to come. Secondly, one day, somebody is gonna unwrap the present and I want them to be amazed, not repulsed!

The thing is, if someone came on to me, would I be able to hold a relationship with that person without dumping them in W came back? The answer is no, so I won't look until that feeling has gone.


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My W asked me to have three weeks off I the summer, so that I could have the kids, which I can't do. I am having two different weeks off instead, and sent W a text today telling her that I had booked the kids a holiday with me during that time, and I would need their passports.

In return, I got a spew text ('So, you have decided not to have the weeks off that I asked you to...blah...blah) followed by a 'XX' at the end. Within a second she sent me another text saying 'XX not meant for you'.

Decided not to respond. I guess she'll kick off when she drops the kids off for tea tomorrow. W is still fogbound! When do you think the penny will drop that she doesn't control me anymore?


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Maybe never. Hard to tell how long they stay in that mindset where they feel entitled and in control of us. Lucky I don't have to deal with that control issue right now but I'm sure at some point in the future I will.

Either way, just like you, it really doesn't matter. Let her get pissy and try to control you. Validate if you need to without reacting to her and continue to stand firm on what your doing for you.

Good to hear from you Huddy, enjoy the vacation with kids.


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True Fogg, true!

Anyway, 4 1/2 hours later, I get a feeble text saying 'OK, I will bring the kids passports over on Tuesday'. Bizarre, roller coaster world of emotions she has.


M 45 W 52
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