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I don’t even know where to begin. I’ve been off and on this forum for many years – with my last entry posted about a year ago. In short, my wife had an affair with a co-worker about a year and a half ago. While not excusable, I was at fault for pushy her away. I filed for divorce and almost went with it until about a month before it got finalized, my wife told me she wanted to make our marriage work – that was probably November/December of 2014. We went to several MC that ended up in disaster – as she got very offended and denied ever having an affair with OM. At one point she even told the counselor that she was fill of it to suggest that she had to stop being friends with OM. We stop counseling and she and I never brought up OM again.

Since about the beginning of 2015, things appeared to really improve. We started to go on dates more, spend more time together at night and recently (the last four months) have starting being intimate with each other. She even brought up the talk about maybe having another kid in a year or two. That said, back in the spring she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS) and had very severe symptoms. She missed about two months of work, was hospitalized for several days and had to go some pretty extreme medication/treatment. I honestly feel that her MS was a major factor in her getting close to me again.

In addition, she appear to loosen up a lot regarding her phone. In the past she would always have her phone by her and was very careful to make sure that I never saw what she was doing on it. For the most part now, she no longer guards the phone. She is always at the house and even tells me she loves me throughout the day.

At this point, I am assuming that the marriage is restored as things are going great. Then a series of events took place that is beginning to change everything. First, my wife meant her dad for the first time in over thirty years about two months ago. What is odd is that her dad killed my wife’s mom. Whether that was in self-defense or the heat of the moment, I guess we will never know but he has been out of prison for the last twenty years. She ran into his sister by accident and that kicked things into motion. Since then she has been talking to him for hours every day in the morning and at night. In addition, he lives about three hours away but has been staying over every weekend. She never grow up with parents as her mom was killed when she was like three or four – so in some ways she is reliving a childhood she never had. I supported her and was happy that she was getting to know her father. Nonetheless, her time with her father means little time for me other than brief sessions in the morning/evening I get know before she talks to him. This is a huge life changing experience – so I took it as nothing more than transient.

Then came the heartbreak moment. Her phone rang about two weeks ago and I was in the same room as her. We both glanced at the phone to see who was calling and it was a phone number with no name attached. She didn’t pick up but unfortunately I recognized the phone number – it was the OM. I didn’t say anything and acted like it was just a random number but it ate me alive for days. I’ve kept my cool around her but inside it is eating me away. All the bad memories, lies and things she did with the OM suddenly came back. I tried for days to pardon it. Perhaps he was calling for a work-related issue, after all she still works with him. My compulsiveness got the better of me and through some digging, found out that she talks and texts the OM almost every day, still goes out for lunch with him, etc. I even found a birthday called from him recently.

Through all this, I’ve acted the same around my wife, giving her no indication of my knowledge of OM. We are still intimate and on the surface, everything appears to be going good. But deep down it is not. She is cake-eating. OM was with there for her (aka, took advantage) when I was a jerk and in her eyes, it would be wrong for her to end a “friendship” with someone who was there for her when she was hurting. Like Sandi2 once said, women can cover their tracks very well and I was played a fool.

Now I am lost. I am still in shock, denial – but I am fighting those emotional tendencies to just loose it. The reality is, she is still having an affair with OM, even if it is just an EA. I am hurting bad inside and just don’t know what to think of the situation at the moment.

I love my wife and I want our marriage to be saved. I also remember the deep pain I endured the last two years trying to save this marriage. In the end, I believe that you go into a relationship to give. At this point, I am wondering if OM and her dad are somehow in the picture to get her to a place of happiness and wholeness – something I know she’s been missing most of her life. And somehow I am not meant to be in that picture. I’m probably just talking gibberish at this point but it seems like through our whole marriage I am always have to compete with some guy. First, her best friend since middle school is a guy (she even brought a house with him many years ago), then OM, and now her dad.

I feel like I just can’t win. I don’t want to lose this marriage but for the ten plus years we’ve been together, most of it was bad. And just when I think it is going good, I get slapped with this. I want her to be happy and I guess I just need to vent/get advice/lean on some DBers. Very sad right now. Sorry for the long post

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Hi L,

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Not a day goes by that I am not surprised by someone's experience or life.

I was in a situation similar to yours especially regarding the phone. My W and even I (in my wayward ways) held onto our phone when we were doing something wrong with it.

She used to even take it with her to crap. She went from being a zero tech wise to an expert with the functions.

After I called her out and showed her I knew she was at least in an EA (I knew before soemthing was up but she just said they were friends) the phone began to be left lying around.

I had access to it if I wanted. Sometimes I admit I would peek when i heard the ping of an incoming message or data but it was ordinary facebook stuff or from her gym female friends.

What raised an eyebrow for me was how it seemed your R was back on track with words of love and intimacy. At best we are like friends, sometimes when I leave for a trip ill get a peck on the lips but no ILY and much less warm LM. I always thought that when a W starts to say those things and even re initiates sex then things should be better.

I remember reading about respect from Sandi and how when a W stops having intimacy it is a bad sign there is someone else. When she re initiates in that way it should mean you have gained her respect and love. If what you say is true then apparently not. Now I AM puzzled.

What does seem strange however is that he would call instead of a normal tm for her to respond to and then maybe call. To call out of the blue is a big risk unless she was with you when maybe she was supposed to be somewhere else and forgot he was going to call.

Another thing that puzzles me is that we live in the world of whatsapp. With how easy it is to delete a conversation and with messages via this method untraceable as opposed to sms where each one is logged on a phone bill, how do people find out their S is actually texting with an OP and even for how long?.

Carelesness? Ignorance? or is it that everytime their phone goes off we presume it is OP? Or are there CIA tactics every S knows to hack the phone and see who their S tm?

Another point... work related issues can wait unless they have critical jobs, in which case she should have picked it up and acted professionally. He should have had more tact knowing your situation. Generally, when someone does not answer a phone without knowing who it is is a suspicious act. Especially if infront of their S.

Finally, when things started to get better did you not do a random check to see if it was really over? I know snooping etc is a no no but I think we all have done it, especially when things seem to get better just to make sure. I presume that after the call you did the snooping and found all this out?

I know many here will say so what and detach and GAL but if what you say is true then to me it is a deal breaker. There should come a time to draw a line count your losses and move on.

I believe that if you love your W and want to give it a go but need to tango by yourself then fine. The problem is that if after 2 years you are in this situation how long will reconciliation No. 2 be?. I see that each attempt takes longer. Are you willing to put blind faith for another 2 years?

Reading your post it seems you never clamped down on her contact with OM. To me, and this is my opinion, it is where I draw the line. We can look at getting this to work but the contact must be zero. period. It is not controlling, it is my boundary. I will not let her hurt me again nor in until this is solved.

I think your mistake was allowing the OM to be swept under. I remember my W telling me the same day I caught her that she missed talking to him. I told her that she should miss talking to me and to not have any contact with him again.

I backed this up by confronting him and warning him that if he ever came within 5 meters of her I would break his legs. I also told her. Call it stupidity or macho behaviour. To me it was about respect and not allowing someone who knew me to crap on my doorstep to just turn a blind eye. We used to go to the same gym (I left long ago) and he knows me. To me it was something you do not do. I draw my on line on this subject. Do not get involved with the S of people you know and least of all friends. If they are officially over then it is debatable but if not then it is taboo.

Whatever you do L I think you have to tackle the OM thing first. If not then it just leaves the door open to a backslide from her. While he is around your trust will be nill and her temptation high.

Fianlly I also think it is a big lack of respect from her to continue seeing this guy even if they are not sleeping around and one thing I learnt from Sandi is that to a woman respect is a big deal.

Hope to have made sense but listen to good advice from the real pros.

Peace L


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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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LovenoM

When you have done your homework things will be clearer. You are in the right place to have support with your WW.

Right now your posts may take time to filter through, they will.


Already max has given you great advice.

Have you read DB yet?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Sorry for taking so long to reply. It's been a busy week to say the least. I'll start off with some answers to my previous posters (thank you so much for taking the time).

Quote:
I remember reading about respect from Sandi and how when a W stops having intimacy it is a bad sign there is someone else. When she re initiates in that way it should mean you have gained her respect and love. If what you say is true then apparently not. Now I AM puzzled.


My W grew up with three brothers. All of her closest friends have been guys. She has few girl friends and many more guy friends. Her best friend is also guy and with her dad now in the picture - it is even more apparent how comfortable she feels around men compared to women.

That said, I honestly think she does not see the wrong in remaining friends with OM. In her eyes, OM was just another guy that came in her life to help her in some way or fashion. I think she feels that she can somehow just be friends with OM despite their previous dealings.

Quote:
What does seem strange however is that he would call instead of a normal tm for her to respond to and then maybe call. To call out of the blue is a big risk unless she was with you when maybe she was supposed to be somewhere else and forgot he was going to call.


I think OM got careless but who knows for sure

Quote:
Finally, when things started to get better did you not do a random check to see if it was really over? I know snooping etc is a no no but I think we all have done it, especially when things seem to get better


Back in January she forgot to log out of her gmail account on her PC. I found an e-mail from OM describing an argument the two apparently had. The e-mail didn't list anything specific, but OM did note how he is tired of being blamed for ruining my W's marriage. I took that as a good sign and left it at that. In my mind, OM was slowing collapsing out of my W's life. I didn't bother to do another check again until recently.

Quote:
Reading your post it seems you never clamped down on her contact with OM


I agree. In retrospect, I should have made it more clear that OM was a boundary I would not tolerate. Rather, I assumed that if kept DBing, eventually OM would go away. Boy was I wrong.

Quote:
Have you read DB yet?

Many times but I'm lost at what I should do

Like I said previously, I felt like things have been going good - we were intimate, going on dates, talking to each other at night, etc. Yet, now that I think about it I almost feel like I am just one component in the complicated web my W has sounding men. She did not have a normal childhood at all and somehow I think that hardwired some incorrect attitudes and tendencies surrounding men.

Overall, I think she has developed a need to have men in her life for different reasons.

Dad - she talks to him every night for 2 to 3 hours for the last two months. He is fulfilling the need to make up for the childhood she never had

Best Friend (guy) - feels the need to have a friend to hang out with and be buds with

OM - fulfills an emotional need to allow her to vent, sort out her thoughts, etc

Me - Well, there isn't much room after she has gone through the other men in her life. In her eyes, I provide the financial support and household protection needs. I also provide the leftover needs when the other men in her life aren't around.

Now that her dad is in the picture, it is if he provides the night shift while OM does the day shift. Prior to that, I had the night shift but now I am just chopped liver and it is beginning to frustrate me. I'm saddened but probably more angry than anything else. I felt like things were going so good and now it is as if I was just living a lie.

Overall, what little time I get with her now are pleasant. We still talk about what is happening in her life and she's been wearing her wedding ring since three months ago. Even yesterday she talked again about having another kid (maybe this is b/c OM can't provide the financial support for children but I can?)

Is my W simply messed up in the head and there is nothing I can do to change the situation? I think I am just venting now but this is just ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like my W is so deep in this mess that she has reached the point of no return. I went through hell and back trying to save this marriage the last two to three years. Is enough enough?

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Interesting conversation this evening. My W wanted her dad to come over Wednesday night and stay until Sunday. Keep in mine that she has only known him for two or three months now. For almost each week her dad has been spending the night on Friday and Saturday. I told my W that I don't mind her dad coming over and staying, but he is not going to stay at the house alone while everyone is at work. She got offended and asked me why. I told her that I was just being cautious and that at the end of the day, we've only known her dad for a few months and that it takes time to build trust. She responded that her dad would never hurt us and I told her that she if probably right but that I am just looking out for the family. She then broke out in tears and told me to leave her alone for the rest of her night.

I don't think I was unreasonable but I did the right thing and left her alone/gave her the space she wanted without any protest. I am sure she will probably call her dad or text OM for comfort - grrh.


Last edited by lovenomatterwhat; 11/03/15 03:51 AM.
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So my W if giving me the cold treatment and it hurts. She has not said a word to me and has been talking to her dad for about 4 hours now. What I've come to the conclusion is that when it comes to the other men in her life, she will do whatever it takes to protect those relationship, even when it isn't logical or right.

I feel disrespected and sad. Overall, I felt that a lot of progress in the last few months but since her dad came in the picture things have slowly changed. It is not that I don't want my W to reconnect with her dad, but it saddens me when she falls asleep in his lap, jokes around with him and tells him how much she loves him. In many ways, I feel like she should be giving me that same type of affection. Although things have gotten a lot better between my W and I, it is nowhere at the emotional level that she has with her dad - and this is a guy that went to prison for killing her mom. Odd thing is that I was always told by my wife that her dad shot myself after shooting my W's mom. My W saw the incidence when she was about 3 or 4 years old - so it seems like the story has changed somehow.

Throughout the relationship a common theme has been that my W has always had some OM in her life that fulfilled a need that I've always felt I should be meeting. As bad as I want an emotional connection, my W has other men in her life that she seeks that from - starting with her best friend, her dad and of course, the OM at work.

Right now I am trying so hard to keep it together. A part of me just wants to lash out in angry. Another part just wants to cry and break down. I want my W to be happy and honestly, seeing the way she talks and behaves around her dad, knowing about EA/PA she had with OM - it seems she is more happy with OM and dad in her life.

And honestly, what scares me the most is the thought of not seeing my daughter every day and I think that is probably the mean reason why I've never really had the courage to enforce the boundary with my W regarding respect and OM. It seems like that boundary would require me to leave the house, get a divorce and have limited visiting rights to my daughter. If I knew/felt that I could get full custody of my daughter, I think I would just leave the marriage at this point, at least that is how I feel at this moment. A month ago I would have told you that things have never been better between my W and I. I know I am speaking in contradictions and a lot of that is just all the emotions and bad memories I am suddenly reliving. I want nothing more than to have a true marriage, one that is united in love, trust, respect and connection. Mentally, I just feel drained and I slowly see it increasing. Help frown

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Quote:
We went to several MC that ended up in disaster – as she got very offended and denied ever having an affair with OM. At one point she even told the counselor that she was fill of it to suggest that she had to stop being friends with OM. We stop counseling and she and I never brought up OM again.


Help me see your rationale here. You knew your W was not going to stop being "friends" with OM, so you both stopped going to the MC and you never bring up OM again. What did you think would happen?

Quote:
Since about the beginning of 2015, things appeared to really improve. We started to go on dates more, spend more time together at night and recently (the last four months) have starting being intimate with each other. She even brought up the talk about maybe having another kid in a year or two.


Again I have to ask, what did you think would happen, or had happened, with OM? If you knew she was not going to end things with OM, where did you think he fit in to this relationship? Had you resigned to live in an openM? Maybe I missed something.

Quote:
At this point, I am assuming that the marriage is restored as things are going great.


You assumed. Did you assume b/c the two of you did not actually discuss it?

Quote:
Now I am lost. I am still in shock, denial – but I am fighting those emotional tendencies to just loose it. The reality is, she is still having an affair with OM, even if it is just an EA. I am hurting bad inside and just don’t know what to think of the situation at the moment.


frown. Sorry you went through this again. I think you may have answered my questions above. You must have been in denial.

Quote:
Interesting conversation this evening. My W wanted her dad to come over Wednesday night and stay until Sunday. Keep in mine that she has only known him for two or three months now. For almost each week her dad has been spending the night on Friday and Saturday. I told my W that I don't mind her dad coming over and staying, but he is not going to stay at the house alone while everyone is at work. She got offended and asked me why. I told her that I was just being cautious and that at the end of the day, we've only known her dad for a few months and that it takes time to build trust. She responded that her dad would never hurt us and I told her that she if probably right but that I am just looking out for the family. She then broke out in tears and told me to leave her alone for the rest of her night.

I don't think I was unreasonable but I did the right thing and left her alone/gave her the space she wanted without any protest. I am sure she will probably call her dad or text OM for comfort - grrh
.

You did the right thing. Your job is to protect your family and the home. This man is basically a stranger. You can't just turn him lose in your home.

Look, I am not a professional counselor, but I think your W seriously needs therapy. Not b/c she has mental problems, but b/c of her childhood trauma. She missed having her parents, and witnessed her mother killed. She missed having her daddy while she was a little girl. She probably grew up fantasizing about him being Ward Clever, and now she is replaying some of the childhood times she missed out with him (laying in his lap, etc.). She is sensitive and defensive (especially with you) b/c she wants him to be some kind of great daddy who has come back into her life. I think this could put blinders overs her eyes. The man may be fine, but there has not been enough time, yet, to know for sure.

She will see your attempts, at protection against him, as you being against her father. She will fight you and take sides with him, b/c she may feel that you are trying to keep her from her dad, just as the prison had done.

This is a fragile situation.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandy for the advice and strong words of wisdom. This is indeed a fragile situation and one that I feel utterly unprepared for. You are absolutely right - I was in denial. Now I see the situation for what it is.

Right now there is so much frustration inside me. My wife went out of state to visit her grandma. She was out for three days. When she got home, she was talking to her dad and kept talking to him for about two hours. I didn't get a hello or anything. It was as if I was non-existent. I got upset after after about an hour and a half of being ignored (mind you, at this point I was just in the home office trying to stay out of her hair).

I lost my composure and sent her a text message that read

"Ok, I have to admit I am a little upset with you - I haven't seen you in three days and when you come home, it is like you don't want to spend anytime with me or tell me about your trip but then go talk to your dad to tell him everything I wish you would tell me"

She relied that she was upset by my rude text and that I she is not important to me unless it is convenient. I responded by saying that spending time with my wife is important to me but that with all the people in her life that she leans on, that leaves little room for me. I left it at that and there were no more text messages for the rest of the evening.

Needless to say, I slept in the guess room where I will also be sleeping in tonight. This morning she wakes me up and tells me that she is tired of my jealousy with her dad. She then tells me that I never made time for her and that now that her dad is in the picture, suddenly I want to spend time with her. That comment really upset me because it is as if she suddenly forgot all the dates, intimacy and time together we spent for the last half of the year. She then told me that I don't know how to provide her emotional needs and that whenever she talks to me I never give her advice. These last few months I thought I was doing well by not giving her advice but listening and trying to validate her feelings. Now it seems like I am being punished. She told me that she needs people in her life how will connect with her and help her through her problems instead of just listening. I told her that we need to communicate our needs instead of trying to get them met outside of the marriage. I told her that I don't have a problem with her talking to her family but not at the expense of neglecting the marriage. She told me I was selfish and only focusing on my needs. This got me upset and I her that she has a hierarchy of people in her life (I briefly listed them to her and even listed OM as part of the list) and told her that I was at the bottom of that hierarchy. I told her that her dad has not earned her affection and that I've been the one in her life sacrificing and being their for her. She got ticked off and walked out of the room. I haven't talked to her sense.

I probably was out of line on a few of my comments this morning but that is how I feel. I honestly feel like walking away from this marriage. It seems like ever sense I saw that phone call from OM, I find myself changing, becoming more frustrating and more upset. I think a lot of that is that my fantasy of a happy marriage is collapsing and I can not long ignore the consequences of reality, even if I choose to deny reality for the longest time.

I spent most of my morning crying in bed and just feeling awful. I want to be the knight in shining armor that my wife leans on and I am far from that. Maybe I'm being selfish here but is it wrong to want a normal marriage. I just don't know what to do at this point. I am getting more angry inside and I am trying so hard to keep it within. I know that at this point I just need to give her space but I've been on this roller coaster ride for over two years now.


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