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A Message from Michele
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Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Mozza] #2629583
12/08/15 04:17 PM
12/08/15 04:17 PM
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Maybell Offline OP
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Maybell  Offline OP
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Hey, Mozz...

I'm not sure where you're reading a lot of the resentment towards him WRT my personal life. I don't think I'm feeling any. I do feel a little bit of resentment towards him on behalf of the kids. I do not like having to remind him of his responsibilities as a father. When I asked the dating question it was really just out of curiosity because someone had warned me that might come up. I don't think he'll care at all.

His siblings are really reaching out to me lately, and my D12 told me his mother had asked her what I wanted for Christmas. I am surprised and touched at both those things, especially since I really enjoyed his siblings and their spouses and had worked hard to build good relationships with them prior to the split.

I'm noticing that New Guy isn't curious about my life in the sense that he doesn't ask a lot of questions about what's going on with me -- though he does ask questions about me that are much less personal. On the other hand, I know a LOT about his life, including specifics about who he spends his time with, family relationships, etc. I don't think he's toxically self-centered, but I'm curious if I'm being over-sensitive about this or if I should appreciate that he's letting me lead how much I want to explain about myself. I recognize that I'm working through some scars but if I'm going to do this dating thing I'd like to feel like I'm personally interesting to the person I'm seeing.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Mozza] #2629585
12/08/15 04:21 PM
12/08/15 04:21 PM
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Posts: 194
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Barry Offline
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Sorry to hijack your post Maybell. It sounds like you're doing well. I really just wanted to say that Mozza's last post really resonates with me too. Resentment has changed my entire outlook on the world this year and turned it into a dark place. If anyone has any practical advice on how to ditch the bitterness, I'd be really interested to hear it. I'd like the open wound to start healing now - even though I'm aware it'll leave a scar.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Barry] #2629834
12/09/15 12:03 PM
12/09/15 12:03 PM
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Maybell I've been trying to gather up enough time to respond, and...this isn't it. But have a great day and I'll try to share my thoughts later.



"Don't look back, you aren't going that way"
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Barry] #2629969
12/09/15 06:40 PM
12/09/15 06:40 PM
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Maybell,

I'm going to hijack for a second to answer Barry. If there's something here than resonates with you, then that's good too. Otherwise, I think I'm going to let Sunny come back and offer her thoughts to you. wink BTW, I'm going to stick to my earlier assessment that it's more anger with you than resentment...

Barry, I spent enough time in IC to learn one big a$$ lesson on resentment. Here goes:

Resentment occurs when we expect others to take care of needs that we aren't willing to fill ourselves.

The cure for resentment is to amp up the self care. When we do that, we fill our needs and the resentment dissipates. It's not to say that resentment isn't a normal or logical emotion. But 100% of the time, when I feel resentment toward something or someone, I can guarantee that I haven't been doing things that are Betsey-centric, and I'm wallowing in that pile of resentment and self pity that just leads to more of the same. The moment I hop out of that mindset and do something for myself, I find myself seeing things differently. My soul feels more joy and there's less of that insidious, poisonous crap eating away at me.

I can say that my own resentment trap is directly correlated to my martyr complex. The more fuel I feed that complex, the more resentment I feel.

Good luck!

Betsey

p.s. Bitterness is a choice. And so is a soft, caring heart. When you start to fall down that rabbit hole, try to think of something more loving to replace it. It takes discipline and it doesn't come naturally, so work at it for awhile. If anything, just know that nobody wants to be with a bitter person. Think of it like eating vegetables because they're healthy for you. cool


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Underdog] #2630315
12/10/15 04:41 PM
12/10/15 04:41 PM
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Mozza Offline
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Maybell | My comment was related to your resentment for "having to remind him of his responsibilities as a father". You could also simply have told him about your son's troubles and moved on, but you carried this resentment with you. It doesn't change a thing with him, it doesn't make him a better father, it doesn't help your son. It just makes you more miserable. And note that you resent having to remind him - your wording - rather than how he treats your son. The two are related, but your wording is potentially revealing.

But my comment was also related to a bigger thread in your updates, one that makes it evident that you hold a lot of resentment against WAH for his cheating, lying, leaving, etc. I understand why and you know that I despise him, but I also see that this only makes you miserable, not him. I bring it up because I'm working on letting go of my resentment against my WW myself, realizing that me alone in my living room feeling resentful at her is hurting no one but me.

Your questioning about New Guy's interest in you is resonating with me. As a date, I'm known for showing a lot of interest in the other person. Many of my dates have mentioned it, and they appreciate it. It seems like it's a rare currency. Many men seem to think that a way to impress a date is to drone in about themselves. Maybe he's just typical in that sense, but maybe also you're not looking for typical.

But mostly, I'm always on the lookout for my dates' interest in me. My WW lost it in the last year of our relationship and it was immensely hurtful. I want to be listened to when I share my life and concerns. I want to be asked a few questions. I'm seeing someone these days and I kind of wonder the same thing that you do: Is she interested? Am I asking for too much?


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Maybell] #2630539
12/11/15 12:24 PM
12/11/15 12:24 PM
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SunnyB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Maybell
I'm noticing that New Guy isn't curious about my life in the sense that he doesn't ask a lot of questions about what's going on with me -- though he does ask questions about me that are much less personal. On the other hand, I know a LOT about his life, including specifics about who he spends his time with, family relationships, etc. I don't think he's toxically self-centered, but I'm curious if I'm being over-sensitive about this or if I should appreciate that he's letting me lead how much I want to explain about myself. I recognize that I'm working through some scars but if I'm going to do this dating thing I'd like to feel like I'm personally interesting to the person I'm seeing.
Hi Maybell, I've been thinking about this for a few days and while I don't have an exact answer, I'm always happy to share my opinion. wink We all know that lack of interest in me by Mr. P post-BD was a huge sticking point for me. Long drive, flat tire, leg surgery, don't care, I'm not asking about you. Even now he hasn't once asked about my new job other than have I started it yet (because that affects alimony of course). So, just warning you this is a hot topic for me.

Shift over to guy I dated for a little over a month. He talked a lot about himself, rarely asked questions of me. I was patient, thought maybe he might not be comfortable carrying on a conversation and talking about himself was his way to fill space; I thought he might be trying to give me space by not asking too-personal things; I thought maybe I was being insensitive by wanting to talk about myself. I made up a lot of excuses to make it ok, but in the end it wasn't the relationship I wanted to have. The deal breaker was when I thought he had been particularly subdued and non-responsive to my texts over Thanksgiving weekend, and I finally called him out on it. His reply was that he was a sensitive guy and wanted to give me space for my family and not be demanding. I said I understood, that was a great viewpoint and sweet of him, but could he also see the viewpoint that perhaps I needed more support from him during a demanding time instead of less and I wished he had initiated a conversation about it before it got to the point where I felt abandoned? He launched back with a long diatribe centered around himself. He never even acknowledged what I had said. So I called him out again. He never got it and then was surprised when I ended it.

My point, MB, with my personal story is, if you don't think he's interested in you, move on. He doesn't ask about you, that's a warning sign. How does he react when you bring up something, does he dig further or does he simply match it with his own similar story? Can you imagine living this life and having these conversations 10 years from now? Can you imagine sharing your hopes and dreams with this man, not now, but after some time together? How do you feel when you come home from a date, are you walking on Cloud-9 or are you brooding because he wouldn't listen?

I'm holding out for Cloud-9.



"Don't look back, you aren't going that way"
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: SunnyB] #2630601
12/11/15 03:48 PM
12/11/15 03:48 PM
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A word of praise for SunnyB when she expressed her emotions to her date. Even though I show a lot of interest and ask questions, I also show restraint sometimes because I want to give a little space. If the woman in front of me were to tell me: "Go ahead, text me 5 times a day and ask me personal questions", I'd be happy to oblige (and indulge). It would be much better than to learn that she dumped me because I was not reaching out enough.

In fact, I had a conversation about this with my IC yesterday. He told me that it's ok to write "I think about you" every now and then. That it would be a problem if I texted her 12 times a day without a response and we're not there. In my case, I'm very afraid of insisting, of imposing. Come to think of it, it might also be an issue for Maybell, the Nice Girl. So go ahead and tell him about being willing to talk about yourself, to answer questions, that you want to make sure he's also interested in you.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Mozza] #2631402
12/14/15 02:38 PM
12/14/15 02:38 PM
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Maybell Offline OP
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So he doesn't take the openings I expect... but he does ask me about myself. So it's a little bit tricky. And sometimes I think my broken places are meeting his broken places and so we're each reacting to that rather than to each other. Or that he's just slightly inept. I was talking about career stuff the other evening and he made the appropriate noises, and then told me a tangentially related anecdote about something similar that happened to a friend of his. I think he meant it as reassurance but it felt a little bit disconnected. And then too, I have a powerful personality and he is quieter. (I'm sure this will shock all of you no end...)

Mozza, your mention of your IC brings something to mind for me -- I haven't been back to IC of any kind since the trauma of last year. The thought of letting myself be emotionally vulnerable to a stranger is unbearable. I'm guessing that's part of my struggle with New Guy. I want to feel like I can trust him so I throw little breadcrumbs and when he doesn't respond the way I expect I take it super personally. He is very attentive otherwise, way more than I ever expected I merited.

I kissed him a week ago. Rather passionately, out of the blue. It had been almost two years since I'd been kissed at all and at that time Mr. Fantastic made it clear that it was a duty performance that was to be repaid with sex. So my whole body started shaking. New Guy interpreted that as me scared and he very sweetly stopped me and said he didn't want me to be too scared. Also that he was nervous himself. And he hasn't kissed me since, though he has given me sweet hugs. I asked him about it six days later and he got a little defensive and mentioned times when he was dating other women and thought things were going well and then he suddenly found himself dumped. It turned into an argument. We ended up glossing it over rather than resolving it, and I still haven't been kissed again.

I'm not looking for marriage potential at this time. I like him and I'm still trying to learn about him. He's distracted by a big project (how much am I making too many excuses???) and I'm not the easiest person in the world. But I'm starting to feel like, if the physical thing doesn't pick up at least a little bit then I may have to call it and move on. That would be disappointing. But I was hoping for someone with a little more of a take-charge attitude.

In other news, Mr. Fantastic fixed my health insurance until my Affordable Care kicks in. I still don't want to be anywhere near him but that helped with my anger against him. It was very scary to think of being unemployed AND uninsured.

Also, I found out yesterday that S7 has been crying from separation anxiety when I go out for an hour here or there and leave D12 in charge. D12 told me about it as I was parking the car at the grocery store last night. I turned around and said "S7, is that right? What's up with that?" And he started almost crying and said he misses me so much when I go. (The kids are all three also very clingy when they come back from time spent with Mr. Fantastic... anyone else deal with this?) So I hugged him a lot and told him I would never, ever leave him, that I would always come back, and that he couldn't change that. He's been sleeping in my bed a LOT. It's like toddler separation anxiety, which kind of breaks my heart because he was always my most confident kid.

I know there's not much to be done about it except just keep reassuring him that I'm not going anywhere and that I love him. It wasn't even worth the effort of being mad at Mr. Fantastic for it because it's just how things are now. But it hurts me to keep seeing how the divorce has hurt the kids in all these different ways. Even if he & I had managed a happy marriage, the kids would have had scars of SOME sort -- nobody gets through childhood unscathed. But I wish there were some way I could circumvent these particular kind of scars, because I can see how they will be so insidious in the kids' adult relationships.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Maybell] #2631477
12/14/15 06:17 PM
12/14/15 06:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 955
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raliced Offline
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Maybell-

Yes – this is pretty much every day life for me. Not only do D7 and D4 sleep with me every night they both insist that I sleep in the middle so that they each get a half (which makes my middle of the night potty breaks pretty awkward). I was doing my best to slowly evict them, but it was clearly a subject of great anxiety for D7, who would start bargaining with me about it the moment I picked her up from school. So I finally just told her that I’d like her to sleep in her own bed, but that she can tell me when she is ready, and I won’t bother her about it until then. And low and behold, lately she has actually said of her own volition that she is getting ready to try it.

Neither one of them likes to let me out of their sight, I get a pass to go to the bathroom by myself but that’s about it. If I take the trash out, they generally run to the window to monitor my progress.

My mom helps me out by waiting with D7 for the school bus so that I can leave to work early. In theory she could sleep in a bit, but then I found out she was crying when she woke up and I was already gone so now I wake her up before I leave and spend a few minutes with her.

They both are fine going to their dad’s, but much like yours, they are super clingy when they get back. And D7, who is such a daddy’s girl shocked me the other day. I asked her if she wanted to go to the same soccer camp that she did last year and at first she was wildly enthusiastic, but then said “Wait – does that mean I have to spend a whole week at Dad’s again? I don’t want to do that”.

It seems pretty natural to me. One pillar of their life suddenly disappeared from their everyday existence – so they are going to make sure that doesn’t happen with the other one.


2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking [Re: Mozza] #2631740
12/15/15 11:37 AM
12/15/15 11:37 AM
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Elsa Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mozza
In my case, I'm very afraid of insisting, of imposing.


I think this is the emotional baggage we carry as LBSes. For the last 3 or 4 years of my marriage, I was trained by my ex to view every attempt at contact -- normal, marital contact -- as an intrusion into his headspace. It is going to be a difficult pattern to break.

Maybell, I've also dipped back into the dating pool and am seeing someone who I am 100% sure is interested in me. He plans great dates for us, is very affectionate, initiates contact with me almost daily -- and yet, he rarely asks me any questions about myself. I don't think he's self-centered (far from it, actually), just a nervous dater with a slightly different communication style from my own. So I've done what you've done -- adapted a bit to keep the conversation going. And I'm ok with that, given the other stuff that he's bringing to the table.


Me: 33 Him: 35
T: 13 M: 11
D7
BD, S: Jul 3rd, 2014
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