Zeus has some great thoughts, and I don't want him to take it like we are beating him up. He's just taking a little tougher stance than some. I agree that it's best for the LBS to really try and let go of the old M. Detachment from the WAS is key to rebuilding a healthy, positive life. What I don't agree with is making the assumption that it's over, done for good, and no chance of ever being with WAS again. To me, that kills hope completely and takes away incentive to want to follow all the great DB techniques. People come here because they want to save their M - end of story. Yes, we realize the odds are against us, and that DBing is really about saving ourselves, regardless of outcome with WAS.
But I believe that you need to keep a small sliver of hope alive that things can still work out. It doesn't mean that you obsess over it, or think about it 24/7. You focus on GAL, PMA, etc. but you always keep in the back of your mind that maybe, just maybe, there's a chance it might all work out. There's also a good chance it won't work out with the WAS, and we have to be willing to accept that very likely scenario. But keeping that hope alive provides the motivation to start and keep making changes, especially early in our stories. As time passes, maybe we start to move away from that mindset, but I don't think there is any one "right" way to proceed. We must all do what works the best for us in our unique life and sitch.
Me 47 W 42 T 24 yrs M 18 yrs W living with OM BD1: 3/7/2015 (A with OM#1) BD2: 4/11/2015 (A with OM#2, W moves out) WW filed for D, papers received 9/18/2015. Meeting to determine child custody 9/29/2015.
When I was new I was desperate for people to encourage me to have hope based on every kind word my STBX uttered (which was probably out of guilt/manipulation 99% of the time)...but that didn't help me. I wish I'd have listened to the people that were telling me to let go and move forward. Maybe it's too soon still to hear this. I'm sorry guys. I feel the pain Sorgan. I do. I just want you to take care of yourself.
^^ i think this goes for everyone new on this board. Id encourage you as well to just take care of yourself. Hanging on to her every word, which after a year of separation for me, is difficult to not do because thats all you want to hear. Hope. That somewhere in what she says is the possibility of R.
Apologizing for something like messing up a food order..is small potatoes. Thats the least of your worries..take sandi up on her challenge of going a week without saying sorry. Standup for yourself. I wish i did that much sooner than I did. I know its the hardest thing in the world. Don't be a dick. But don't let her walk all over you. Trust me. it just gives her what she wants and eventually she'll tire of it and all you've done is put yourself in more hurt.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
I just wanted to start by thanking everyone for their replies and support. It all has been a big help to me.
Tonight has actually gone better than I was expecting. I made major point not to look or act upset when she had her phone out texting him, and did not mention us as a MR or working on us. Also, I am 12 hours into no sorrys about how I was or doing this to us and the like.
I have kept all our talking friendly and light hearted. She seemed to enjoy all of it. I am still not going to go completely dark or anything, but I am also not smothering her. One of our issues was my checking out for so long and a total breakdown of our communications. So, I am making it a point to try to listen to everything she says and respond nicely. I do initiate it sometimes, but that goes back to one of my 180s. I never used to open up to her and try to have a conversation before. I mean in the beginning i did. But not since the birth of my twins.
My D4 is actually taking notice of my changes and that has helped to solidify my resolve to keep these changes. We were sitting around after dinner and she looked at me and said "Daddy how can you play your games with the doors closed?"( on the entertainment center) and I said "Im not playing my games anymore so that I can spend more time woth you, your sisters, and brother" and she lit up like a christmas tree. Her smile after I said that was all I needed to help me know that this is the path I want no matter what.
I am still working on my anger. Im not violent , but during arguments with my wife I find myself saying hurtful things that I dont mean when I feel attacked. That hasn't been an issue for us in a long time, but mainly because we didnt really talk anymore once I checked out. However, moving forward I know I must adress this to be a better person either way.
My wife is still talking on occasion like there is a future for us. I know not to look into it too much, but it is nice to hear her talking about what we are going to do with our tax return (our twins are ready for twin beds soon lol) and costumes for the kids on Halloween.
I got her to help with the chores around the house tonight for the first time all week, which was nice. We even played rock paper scissors to decide diaper duty. Lol (that used to be a thing we did)(we cloth diaper to save money)
I will update again tomorrow, but any insight and advice is always appreciated. Also, as always if anyone wants clarification or more info about our sitch, just ask. I check here often so I'll reply as soon as I can. Sorry for my walls of text lol, but it feels good to talk about it.
I got her to help with the chores around the house tonight for the first time all week, which was nice. We even played rock paper scissors to decide diaper duty. Lol (that used to be a thing we did)(we cloth diaper to save money)
I will update again tomorrow, but any insight and advice is always appreciated.
Yes, I have some strong opinions.
Don't make spontaneous decisions throw by throw. Humans are incapable of generating random selections, we have tendencies that can form patterns and are easily influenced by their last throw. Against a good opponent this is the kiss of death.
Instead preselect three throws ahead of time so you aren't vulnerable in this way. This is knows as a 'gambit'. There are a number of gambits (rock/rock/rock = avalanche, paper/scissors/rock = crescendo, paper/scissors/paper = scissors sandwich, etc), get familiar with the combinations. The only time you should stray from your gambit is if you pick up a read on your opponent (either a pattern, or if you notice they start to form their selection too early in the throw and tip you off in time to adjust yours).
Glad we can offer this type of assistance.
OK, hope this cheers someone up tonight. Those than know me know I love games. In reality, this is really sweet, and one of the reasons the loss of an M is so tragic. Way to keep calm and toughen up.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
That did give me a big laugh. Actually I have done it so much with her I know what she is going to throw for 5 throws.I used to make a game to myself about seeing how long i could draw with her. Lol i made it to 12 once.
And my D4 solidified my PMA tonight. It was the best feeling when she smiled abd ran and gave ne a big hug when i told her about my games. That also made me realize that she was a child now and not a toddler anymore. Crazy how fast life goes by sometimes.
I am still working on my anger. Im not violent , but during arguments with my wife I find myself saying hurtful things that I dont mean when I feel attacked. That hasn't been an issue for us in a long time, but mainly because we didnt really talk anymore once I checked out. However, moving forward I know I must adress this to be a better person either way.
Very likely this will happen when you become angry about whats happening. It will come, all apart of the grief process. 'The Solo Partner' was something that helped me to stop reacting to W and something I'm still reading and working on. Its an older book and can be found for only a few dollars online. When we get attacked in that way our minds revert to a defensive place and attach back without thinking. If you understand why you react it helps to stop you but you also just need practice to get catch it before it happens.
As for the hope and letting go, I think it takes a specific balance to get right. Early on in the sitch hope and co-dependency drives us to stay stuck on the W which does have its impacts on our health and sanity. We look at every interaction and snoop to try and piece together what we want to see which is rarely what really is happening. Point being, a nice comment or the W being nice to us doesn't mean they want to be M to us. Even if they do something that shows they love us unintentionally, it doesn't mean we will be together.
Really the issue is accepting whats happening. You can keep hope things may work out in some way in the future but don't get stuck on that as the only possibility. At the point when we get here its more likely we will D, as much as we may not like it.
A good place to start on you might be to figure out why you had an A and why you retreated into video games. I did the same with the games so I understand, I mostly gave them up in January.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
I wound up having my A when i was 21. Our M was alreasy strained. It started strained as could be. Looking back it makes me think why we eveb were together. When we were younger my wife had a bad habit of tit for tat. I broke up with her for a month to try being with someone else. So she slept else with someone three days before we got married.
Looking back I realize that I shouldn't have jumped into the marriage then. I loves her so much, but the pain was so bad that I wasn't in love with her then. I didn't want to lose her, and she always seemed to move past me so easily and quickly. So I married her because I had never loved another person, and I didn't want to lose her. She meant the world to me and, even though my pain and resentment was high at that point, I pressed forwardfor our future.
We worked at a pizza place together at this point in our lives. She seemed to love me and that was enough. Until I met a friend of a friend, she was cute and sweet and even though she had no interest in me in that way. My younger socially awkward self thought she might, and that pulled me away from my wife. I wouldnt call it an EA, but my chasing of her angered my wife and cause problems for us.
My W and I stayed together for a few months after that. I got fired from the pizza place (cant be a delivery driver with out a car. Lol) Not long after she quit and started working at a gas station. She worked until 1-2 am sometimes while I sat at home(we lived with her oarents at this point) I tried looking for another job and actually got an interview, but ironically I was arrested for FTA of a speeding ticket the day if my interview.
My father and W bailed me out that day, but I never got a job while we were together with her parents. A few weeks later she kicked me out and we separated for like half a year. It was during this time i met my future A person, but I digress nothing between us then. My W actually started dating the guy she slept with before we got married during this time. It killed me. I chased, begged, did everything I know now I shouldn't have.
They eventually broke up ,it's been ago I cant remember why though, but they did and I was so happy. The pain of it really hurt deep, but again I got back with her. (She dated a few other guys before we did but they were insignificant) We started "dating" again while i lived with my father and she lived with her parents. We were happy again though. We fell back in love but my pain over the OM still was there. We eventually got an apartment together a few months later, but that is when the problems returned.
She had begun working at Walmart then. I was working for my father(still am ) she would work nights and i worked days. At this point I checked out to games for the first time. It kept me busy while she was at work and kept my from thinking about the pain I still hadn't addressed from the OM. I never did the chores. Looking back I know it wasnt fair to her, I can say how she felt but I know she wasnt happy anymore looking back. We began to argue and fight again.
Looking back I realize what a monster I was. I would lash out with horrible comments and we both began hitting each other briefly (these years werr the darkest time in our M) she was the first to hit me however she stopped hitting me after the first few times i pushed back. She got pregnant during this time but lost it(she had a clotting problem we didn't know about.) It was only a miscarriage but it meant something to her then. The night she passed it I was asleep when it happend(it was so early on the dr made had her pass it at home) she tried to wake me up to come see it, but I got angry when she woke up(no violence but i did flip over our night stand) i yelled at her, showed no empathy, looked at it in the toilet and went back to sleep. All while she was in tears over the loss. These words are so painful to type and read now, but they are what happened.
We went along with our lives. Still fighting although not so much in the violence because she had quit initiating it. I remained checked out on games. She lived her life. A few months later I becan talking to an OW (my EA/PA) It felt so good to feel wanted and listened to again. I didnt talk to my W at that point to avoid the fights. We still talked a little and fought though. My wife wound up pregnant again with my son at this point(she lost him at 21 weeks but he was my son) We moved into a new apartment and she had changed jobs to almost a 3rd shift in the bakery of Walmart.
I talked to the OW for 3 months all while my wife and I fought and made up and the like. Looking back I know the OW didnt like me, but what I represented to her. Me and the OW saw each other, but nothing physical aside from hugs and a peck kiss or two. The A finally came to an end after the first time we were physical. I wanted it so badly before it happened, but after I was racked with guilt and pain. I ended it with her the next day.
She texted my phone a few days after that and said that she was ok with thing, but felt like she was used. My W saw the text not me. She took my phone to work and kept texting the OW to find out what happened. She left work early that day and came home to confront me. I was still detached and checked out, but when she confronted me I lied. I didnt want to lose my wife or fight again so I lied to make it seem less painful. I was so wrong for that, but I cant change the past.
My kids are all waking up so I am going to have to finish the rest of the story later. As always sorry for the massive wall of text and god bless you if you read it all, but i woke up to a quiet house and felt like talking (typing) to abyone that will hear me.
The hurt is strong inside me right now when i look back on our history. It was so messed up. We had good times in there, it was just far outweighed by the bad.
imo, it just sounds like you 2 never resolved any issues...sleeping with someone 3days before getting M...pretty big deal..not sure i could even still marry her if she did that. I feel that you guys (granted you married very young) didnt fully understand M and just bounced around to various people to get your EA/PA needs met.
Obviously you've matured since then..but I'm wondering, have you ever truly forgiven her for cheating on you and the things she did? Has she ever done the same for you? Why not seek counseling years ago when all this happened?
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
) she would work nights and i worked days. At this point I checked out to games for the first time. It kept me busy while she was at work and kept my from thinking about the pain I still hadn't addressed from the OM. I never did the chores. Looking back I know it wasnt fair to her, I can say how she felt but I know she wasnt happy anymore looking back. We began to argue and fight again.