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11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking #2602818
08/30/15 01:39 PM
08/30/15 01:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
My Family's Journey So Far.

Good morning everyone. So yes last night I backslid into some negativity. That and 4 strawberry pop-tarts, a frosted cinnamon danish, and some rum. It was not productive. I'll turn the experience into practicing my climbing out of emotional holes quickly.

Thank you Vanilla, SunnyB, and Elsa for your posts to close out my last thread. I feel very grateful for your continuing support and it was a blessing to me to wake up and read your words.

I thinks Elsa's post sums up the most important issues at this new fork in the road...

Originally Posted By: Elsa
I haven't posted in a long time, and I don't remember your earlier threads so my advice may be off-base.

My guess, based solely on what I've read in this thread, is that your W is probably genuinely interested in reconciliation. But, just as you want to see changes from her, she wants to see changes from you too. Back in April, she agreed to let S12 move to Florida because she thought that it would soften your heart toward her (see, WAH? I'm willing to make sacrifices for you) and eventually lead to a reconciliation. (What's the word for that? Implicit contract?) When you didn't do whatever it was that she was looking for, she started to doubt her decision to let S12 move. She continued to stew over it for months. Finally, in July she reached out and tried to engage you in a conversation about your relationship, which is what she wanted all along. But, your response didn't tick all the right boxes for her, so she decided to use the only power she has to draw you into the conversation -- her agreement (or not) to allow S12 to move with you to Florida. I'd be willing to bet that this really isn't about S12 at all but about her own feelings of being abandoned. But because you won't engage her in that discussion*, she has to make it about S12, because that is the only area where you can't avoid engagement.

(I may or may not have done the exact same thing with my WAH over the past few months about selling a piece of property we own.)

*I know you told her you would talk if she stopped contact with OM, but in her mind that's quite a risk to take when you are dead-set on moving to Florida and not really engaging her at an emotional level. Note, I'm not defending her, just explaining why she might not have dumped the OM as soon as she got your terse email response.

What's the reasoning behind the email-only boundary? I don't think it's reasonable to expect that co-parenting can be accomplished via email only, except in the most extreme of situations. It would frustrate me beyond belief to not be able to call up my (hypothetical) XH and talk about our D8.


The email only boundary began for my peace of mind and for me to detach. In short, STBXW would often lash out at me in texts and voice mails. The last straw was her sending me a text meant for OM. She will say she was wrong and I don't deserve her treatment when I call her on these things or otherwise communicate... but then she'll just swing back to this behavior soon after.

From experience, I can see how all this is again her trying to connect and/or control. Once I do, by sending an explanation or concession or "I understand you're upset" type email, then she'll say how bad she feels and the cycle will repeat. I want that to stop.

So, I'm going to again take a moment to step back and reset.

What do I want?

What I really want now is to take my company's offer to move to Florida and live there with S12.

I keep a job that pays for S12's future... I work from home so I have maximum flexibility to support S12... I have my brother and his family plus many childhood friends in the area for support... I save on state and city taxes.

If I stay here... I likely have to get a job that pays less... I likely have to commute to an office leaving S12 in school aftercare everyday... or, to get my current pay level or keep my current job, I commute to NYC everyday and not get home until 8pm.

I had a proposal from STBXW to make the move happen. I did not do what was required to make that proposal happen. I did not get the agreement legal immediately when offered. Without the legal agreement, I did not go talk with STBXW whenever she asked. I maintained a barrier between us. I did not try at all to emotionally connect with her. DB Coach advised me to connect at any opportunity. I have not.

I am very much acting like a WAH.

Do I want R?

I think about it. I'm open to it. I'm not desperate for it. I don't need it. When there was a possibility to talk about it... I did get a little attached to outcome. I could have asked her what she imagined R would look like. I could have asked her what she wanted to do. I don't know if showing any sign of wanting her offer to talk too much would have been good given she said she continues to see OM (even though she also said her doing so was wrong).

It might be good to talk about last week... how this new request to talk started...

Last week STBX took S12 to the beach with a girlfriend and her kids.

First, S12 got caught in a rip current and had to be rescued by a lifeguard. STBX was there and can't swim. I am a strong swimmer and would have been in the water with S12.

That evening, STBX emailed me something like "S12 was caught in a riptide. He is OK. Please call me."

I replied "what happened?" She went into a little detail and said I could call her if I wanted to talk.

I replied "who pulled S12 out of the water?" She said a lifeguard and went into a little more detail. Said S12 was sleeping.

The next morning I called S12 and we talked about what happened. I did not call STBXW.

Later in the week... I butt dialed STBXW. I have not called her since February I think. I heard her answer and she sounded friendly right before I hung up the phone.

The next day, last Friday, she dropped S12 off at my condo. On the drive there she offered, through S12, to bring me some lunch. I declined. Then, she walked S12 to my door instead of dropping him out front or walking him to my door then leaving before I answer. She has not done come to my door since maybe March.

I, fortunately, was dressed well like I was going to see my STBX (one of my new daily habits). Unfortunately, I had an eye infection from allergies. I was holding a cold pack over my eye. She handed me S12's bag and offered to keep S12 if I wasn't feeling well. I said no I'm alright. That was all I said to her before I closed the door as she was saying bye and starting to walk away. I don't think I looked at her. I can't remember what she looked like. I had not seen her in 3 months.

She sent another email offering to keep S12 if I wasn;t feeling well. She mentioned she had plans Saturday night but could work around that. I never replied to that email.

Then, that night at 11pm, she sent the "we desperately need to talk let me know when we can meet" email. I replied "how can I help you?" later the next morning. She replied with some snarkiness and a court date threat.

Now I'm here.

So, I guess I'm being a dense and obstinate man and bringing all this on myself. I don't budge an inch even though it seems I have opportunities to at least connect on a friendly level with STBX.

She communicates that she wants to connect on a friendly level. Maybe she would need that before she would consider R. Maybe that's what "keeping the road home paved smooth" means.

Maybe if I did pave the road home smoother, I could get this agreement that I want. Maybe STBX would reconsider moving to Florida with us (like she offered in her proposal). I can't count on any of that.. but maybe being more open is better than this.

Elsa, thank you. You have really made me think.

She wants to talk... keeps asking to. Insists on it. Maybe I'll just call her tonight and say "here's my move plan" and try to be nice about it.

What's the worst that can happen?


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: HPoirot] #2602828
08/30/15 02:46 PM
08/30/15 02:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,098
Midwest
Z
Zephyr Offline
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Zephyr  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,098
Midwest
What do I want?
Do I want R?

These are certainly the big questions you will need to answer. I am excited for you. It certainly does look like the stbxw is trying to reconnect.

I don't think you need to decide today what you are going to do moving forward, but no matter what you will have to look at your hard line and see if there is room in you heart to move it just a little to see what happens.


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: Zephyr] #2602856
08/30/15 06:26 PM
08/30/15 06:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Hello Zephyr. Thank you for your encouragement. Unfortunately, I do have some time constraints. If I'm to get S12 into my first options for school in Florida, I must start the process this fall. That, an my job requires that I move by the end of this year. HR called me last week asking for my move date. Finally, I'm overstaying my time here at the condo. Whatever happens, I have to make a move somewhere.

I slept on it just now... and remembered...

I got here by leaving an emotionally hurtful situation and setting a path for my life... and then got moving in that direction without constantly turning to see if STBXW was following.

When this started... I tried to love my M to life. As soon as I tested that... no MC while OM... I got crushed. It's been like that ever since... I get crushed/insulted/lied to every time I backslide and show any leniency.

Sure my life would be easier if I was just agreeable, talkative, and even friendly no matter what. She would love that... and I would get strung along while she goes back and forth forever.

This way, by drawing a line and sticking to it, I made space enough to make (admittedly slow) progress in my life and now I have a destination and a dream to work towards. I'm am building a stronger emotional center by not basing my happiness on external validation. I am becoming a better me. I'm even happy much of the time.

So I'm going to detail my proposal to her in an email. I'm going to get legal help. I'm going to keep moving forward and away from her. "Acting as if" is turning into simply "doing."

Yes, there is a part of me that wants to tell her how much I want to talk with her and fix our R. I miss her sometimes. I still feel hurt when I think of all this.

But showing her all that won't help. She'll just see me as weak and I'll be back at square one.

I'm thinking, if there is any chance of R in my case, I keep going as I am. Counterintuitive. I was just reading Sandi's thread on WW again and it still fits.

So I keep going.

Onwards.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: HPoirot] #2602862
08/30/15 06:50 PM
08/30/15 06:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,708
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Zues126 Offline
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Zues126  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,708
HP, I would handle this the exact same way.

STBX BD'd you, saw another man, and pursued her own selfish interests despite her vows and the fact that it would cause irreversible damage to her family. Until she acknowledges that, ends the A, and states directly that she wants to know if there's any chance to work through the damage that's been done, I see no reason to discuss anything with her regarding the R.

Keeping the road home smooth...that's fine. You don't have to be rude, hostile, or anything like that. But there are requirements for you two to have a relationship, and you can't be so eager for one that you lower the bar and compromise your boundaries, which I feel are extremely appropriate. I think you HAVE kept the road home paved by stating the requirements of your further discussion about a relationship between the two of you- that she end the A. You're not making the road home bumpy, she is, and she's not even on that road.

Many relationships are on again, off again, with repeated affairs, betrayals, and very poor quality of life- for YEARS. I see no reason you should subject yourself to that. She is not capable of being a good partner at this time.

What I see is attempts at cake eating, control, etc. She may be using S12 to keep you emotionally engaged, but she also may be trying to keep you emotionally engaged to try to control your decisions with S12. Doesn't matter. You need to take care of yourself, and that means not putting yourself in a spot where you can be drawn into her drama.

I do think you're being extremely unreasonable about this move. You're rationalizing why it means so much, and it sounds as loopy as a WAS rationalizing an A. Downsized positions and a lack of sun are not reasons to separate a parent and a child. You're acting extremely stubborn here, and to me it looks like you're emotionally attached and doing this to try to prove you're independent, or hoping to either punish her or show her the consequences of her behavior. I know you won't agree this way, I guess I shouldn't project motives onto you, but it really doesn't make any sense. Ask a few objective priests or counselors and see if they think it's best for S12 to wage a war and try to split up a family. I know, I know, she can move too- just stop. There isn't ONE person on this forum that thinks this makes any sense.

And besides, while you may not crave R right now, maybe, just maybe, you could stay in the same state, form a reasonable co-parenting R, and see what she does. While I agree with holding firm on your boundaries for R, I think you can be cooperative and reasonable. It could show your 180s in a coparenting role which you can have, without letting her cake eat. Oh, and it's better for S12, and probably for you too because it would be continued growth from this bulldozer path you're committed to.

Just my two cents. Take care HP wink


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: Zues126] #2602911
08/31/15 01:10 AM
08/31/15 01:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Hey Zues. Thank you for the support of my approach to my relations with STBX.

Since she asked if I was willing to talk about us, I have second guessed my reply... no R talk while OM.

Part of me is still in that mindset of talking her out of all this. If only we could connect again.

Experience, though, says this is not a good approach. My own experience, and of others I read on this board.

I think of good, strong, patient men like Peter_v2 and Rzrback/NH115. They see their Ws everyday, it seems to me, going from almost back in the R to running for the hills. It seems extremely painful to me. I do not think I could do what they do given the history of my sitch.

And yes, I know you and others are against my moving to Florida... being a WAH. All I can say is, a move like this is something she and I have considered for more than a decade. She knew I wanted this and would bring up her letting S12 live with me there even before I left the house. It was part of her "crazy" dream where we would all get what we want.

Well, now we are at the reality phase. She'll have to find a way through it.

I want to make clear... my moving has nothing to do with her. Making her feel sorry or punishing her or anything like that. She has suggested she thinks that way too... but there's nothing I can do about how she feels except be clear in my plans and do my best to make sure S12 lands down there in the best way possible.

The IC that all of us, S12 included, has seen knows of my move and desire to take S12 with me. I will also consult with her and take S12 to see her as well.

I am trying to do this in the best way possible. I do appreciate your keeping me honest Zues.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: HPoirot] #2602947
08/31/15 06:40 AM
08/31/15 06:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
UK
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Vanilla Offline
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Vanilla  Offline
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HP,

My views differ, I believe that you should follow your dream and job. Your S always comes first though and needs to see his mom sometimes even if you want to be free. Yes, I still see your W as a WW too, I think your assessment is correct.

Apply for custody and move, if the courts deem that's the best choice it is.

Where I do agree with Zues etc is that, it doesn't serve your interests best nor that of your S to have two hostile parents. This is something that needs work for all of your sakes. In particular for you.

I read a brave and wonderful dad, a caring one who has struggled to protect his son as much as he can. Who resolved issues with his own father, who built a new life.

It's time HP to detach and work towards your best dreams.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: Vanilla] #2602968
08/31/15 10:08 AM
08/31/15 10:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Thank you Vanilla. What you say is what I'm going to do this week. I'll come up with my move details email and make my case for S12 living with me in Florida. Then we'll see.

I forgot... I have a doctor's appointment with S12 this morning and STBX will be there. I have not been around her for an extended time since February.

I don't expect her to do/say anything as S12 will be there but I'm sure she'll be watching my acceptance of her presence. I'll just think about living in Florida and moving forward.

We'll see.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: HPoirot] #2602987
08/31/15 11:47 AM
08/31/15 11:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,105
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Posts: 18,105
HP, you are not a WAH.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: sandi2] #2603064
08/31/15 03:55 PM
08/31/15 03:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
UK
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Vanilla Offline
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Vanilla  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Absolutely Sandi, I agree.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: 11 Months Later... STBX Keeps Insisting On Talking [Re: Vanilla] #2603233
09/01/15 02:06 AM
09/01/15 02:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
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Maybell Offline
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Maybell  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
If you're still accidentally getting texts meant for OM then what on earth would you be hanging around for? There's nothing fuzzy happening there. She's just being manipulative in my view.

(I'm glad your name popped up, I've been wondering how you are.)

You have a tough, tough choice in front of you. My family has put a lot of pressure on me to relocate out of state to be closer to them. I couldn't do that to my kids -- but I'm well supported here, and I like it where I am. If I had the choices you have? I'd probably go.

But I think you need to take a little more charge of your situation. Get the lawyer. Make things work. You've done a good job of that up to now. Keep the momentum going.

And lay off the alcohol! Your son has made it clear how he feels about that. You're better than that.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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