Need advice for a WW who left Part 3

[dwh15]

Having a hard time today. Every time I think I'm getting used to the thought of WW not being around, I get another dip on the roller coaster. I think that seeing her face to face a couple of days this week is taking a toll. I don't notice while she's around but I get used to her again, then feel down a day or two later when I haven't seen her. The kids spent a couple of hours shopping with her yesterday and S18 said she seemed stressed, as usual. Seems to be an almost permanent state with her the past couple of weeks. I know that money is tight; no idea what else might be causing trouble, but I gave up trying to figure it out a long time ago.

I'm finally to the end of week 1 on the new job and everything going well so far. Looking forward to the 3-day holiday weekend. Taking the boys to the beach on Sunday and meeting WW's sister there. I was going to take them regardless, but mentioned it to her and she wanted to know if she could come along. I get along well with her so will be happy to have another adult to pass the time with. I know that she speaks to WW once every couple of weeks and initially was really pulling for us to patch things up, but noticed her attitude lately has changed more to pushing me to be a good father and get used to doing things w/o WW, so I can only assume she's losing hope as well.

My plan right now is still to hold on through around March of next year, which will be 1 year separated. If there are no indications of a change by then, I'm going to have to file. I can't let this sitch drag on indefinitely, and I really can't cross the 20-year M mark w/o incurring some serious financial penalties in terms of spousal support. We will still have 6 months from the file date before everything final, but if I get there, I don't see much hope remaining. Even now, I'm not sure a R is possible, just because there is so much damage, and I don't see my WW ever reaching a point where she is willing to put in the work necessary to fix herself, or our M. I'm doing my best to let go, but seems like I'll never be totally over her.

[Zues126]

Hey DW...we can't help but ask some of these questions...endlessly reevaluating the odds of R, what it would take, whether it's still possible or what we want, how long we'll wait, etc, etc...

Just remember those thoughts are all very draining, so limit your time with them. As long as you know you're not filing this month and she's not interested in R, none of those questions really need answers. What's really important is that you're deciding to hold tight for a bit.

I wasn't able to truly start detaching for 3 months after BD, and it took a crisis that forced me to rock bottom. This was a year ago tomorrow. Wow. After that my world changed forever, and it forced me to accept the reality of the situation and really let go.

Your W isn't your enemy, but she's definitely not in your corner anymore. That's hard to accept, but the sooner you truly get that the sooner you will be in your own corner more and more. The fastest way to get over your dependence on your WAW is to learn to meet the needs she was meeting on your own. Validate yourself. Be there for yourself. Hug yourself. Appreciate yourself. That's why GAL is important as well. When you find ways to get the support you need through other channels, you'll go from NEEDING your W to WANTING her. And, oftentimes, once the need is gone you will see her differently and will have trouble not going to the opposite extreme and being disgusted by her and not wanting her at all.

Anyway, some random thoughts, hang in, and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!

[Azzork]

My plan right now is still to hold on through around March of next year

I think setting timetables this far out is only going to set you up for failure. I understand what you are saying about the finances and such, but Im not sure theres a ton of benefit in worrying about things 6 months out. A lot can happen in that time. Better to focus those thoughts somewhere that can help you now!

[dwh15]

Your W isn't your enemy, but she's definitely not in your corner anymore. That's hard to accept, but the sooner you truly get that the sooner you will be in your own corner more and more. The fastest way to get over your dependence on your WAW is to learn to meet the needs she was meeting on your own. Validate yourself. Be there for yourself. Hug yourself. Appreciate yourself. That's why GAL is important as well. When you find ways to get the support you need through other channels, you'll go from NEEDING your W to WANTING her. And, oftentimes, once the need is gone you will see her differently and will have trouble not going to the opposite extreme and being disgusted by her and not wanting her at all.

Anyway, some random thoughts, hang in, and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!

Thanks Zeus. I've been doing a LOT of GAL lately and it really does help. I actually was feeling pretty good over the past couple of weeks, but having to spend time with WW 2 days in a row this week set me back I think. It wasn't by choice; we had meetings with the school for S10 and WW is making sure she attends every single meeting. I think she's worried about how it will look in a custody case if she doesn't attend.

So I'm confident that I'll bounce back over the next few days and things return to "normal". She hasn't tried contacting me at all over the past two days. Back to texting the kids for setting up plans, which really bothers me, but I've given up fighting her on it. When things don't pan out because she didn't include me on communication, then it's her own fault. There are no more urgent meetings scheduled for a while so my guess is I don't see WW in person for at least another 2-3 weeks. I hate that it has to be this way but the distance really does help me with detachment. I keep trying to fool myself that we can be "friends" and it feels good being able to talk with her, but then I always bottom out after a day or two of NC. Which tells me I'm not detached yet. From her perspective, no idea why she seems to want the NC lately, since she was all about being good friends that first few weeks. Once I cut off the money supply, her interest went away, so my best guess is she was only using me to get what she wanted, and no longer sees a point. Hurts to think it, but that's reality and I need to accept it.

I think setting timetables this far out is only going to set you up for failure. I understand what you are saying about the finances and such, but Im not sure theres a ton of benefit in worrying about things 6 months out. A lot can happen in that time. Better to focus those thoughts somewhere that can help you now!

Agreed. The only reason I mentioned it at all is because it's sort of a hard break point for me. In May 2017 I will cross 20 years of M, and spouse support potentially goes to lifetime, rather than the 7 years I'm looking at now. I will not allow that to happen. Technically, I could probably hold off until Aug 2016 or so, but the courts can take up to 8 months to finalize a D after filing, so I don't want to cut it too close. I figure this gets us through a major holiday season, and will give everyone an idea of what life is going to be like, plus a year of separation seems like a good place to draw a line. As you say, a lot can happen in 6 months, so guess I'll see where life leads.

[TLEE86]

I keep trying to fool myself that we can be "friends" and it feels good being able to talk with her, but then I always bottom out after a day or two of NC. Which tells me I'm not detached yet. From her perspective, no idea why she seems to want the NC lately, since she was all about being good friends that first few weeks. Once I cut off the money supply, her interest went away, so my best guess is she was only using me to get what she wanted, and no longer sees a point. Hurts to think it, but that's reality and I need to accept it.

Boy does this sound familiar. You're sitch, i havent read the whole thing yet, sounds like how mine went too. WW started living with OM immediately after she moved out. I know the feeling of how just any contact with her makes you feel so good and like you can do anything that day. But then after a day or 2 of NC, its like [censored]. and you bottom out. We went so far as face timing each other during the first 6months!

As far as why she wants NC...honestly...after a year of this...theres no explanation. It depends on her ridiculous moods. Some days she's gonna be all about dwh and then her attention span will go back to OM.

After a year of this..i think i wish i was stronger and didnt cater to her when she wanted to talk and just "be friends." Because i feel like i weened her off of me, if that makes sense. if you just go with the NC and she starts to get frustrated, probably a good thing to just say i cant be friends while your living with OM. I wish i did that. Some others did do that, i.e. Mozza, but in the end...the results are what they are.

Id keep encouraging you to detach, which I'm still not, but seriously its the only way.

[dwh15]

So I ended up going to the beach yesterday. Took 3 of my 4 boys (S16 chose to stay home) and had a great time. Met my WW's sister there, along with her son (my nephew). Everyone enjoyed it, we watched a beautiful sunset, and I talked with S18 the entire 2-hour drive home. The two of us are really becoming close. Slept great, and had not heard from WW all weekend. Around 10:30am this morning she sends a TM. I'll just paste the convo.

WW: S18 never told me when u got home.

Me: We made it back fine. U can always text me if u wanna know. U don't have to go through S18.

WW: When u get home

Me: ??

WW: Yesterday. When did u guys get back.

Me: Don't remember exactly. Wasn't too late. Why do you wanna know?

WW: For S16

Me: I called and checked on him a few times. He was fine.

WW: when you go outta town, it should be u telling me. Not S18. Hope you told my sister Hi for me.

Me: S18 told me he had talked to you about it. And u r always welcome to ask me about kids if you have questions. Your sister hopes you doing well. She misses you.

WW: Yeah, well you never planned to tell me anyways. U can have the rest of my family for Christmas too. Enjoy.

Me: I wasn't deliberately keeping anything. S18 said he mentioned it on Friday. And I don't know why u think it has to be either me or you with your family. Why do they have to pick a side? We can all get along just fine if you want.

WW: The only reason S18 told me was cause I specifically mentioned my sister. U didn't plan on telling me and it's BS.

Me: I had no problem telling you. I didn't think u cared. You go days at a time and don't tell me anything but get mad when I do the same.

WW: They don't have to pick sides but I'm sure you're buzzing in their ears. I don't feel like I have anyone now. Thanks

Me: I'm not buzzing anyone. I don't trash talk about you, in spite of what you think. And btw, ur sister was already going to the beach and told me she had invited you b4 she even spoke to me. Said she never got a reply. I mentioned I was taking the kids and we decided to meet up. There was nothing sneaky about it. I would have been happy if you could have made it.

That was it. No more replies from her. Sort of a bizarre conversation. Not sure why she thinks I'm ganging up with her family against her. No idea how I did from a db perspective. Don't feel like I validated but the spew was coming so fast, I was just trying to shoot truth darts in there. Thought about sending another text asking what she expects, but decided against it. Let her stew for a while and look for a chance to interact more positive in a day or two. Feedback appreciated.

[Zues126]

I put what I thought was a setback in red, blue was just unnecessary. Recap below.

WW: S18 never told me when u got home.

Me: We made it back fine. U can always text me if u wanna know. U don't have to go through S18.

WW: When u get home

Me: ??

WW: Yesterday. When did u guys get back.

Me: Don't remember exactly. Wasn't too late. Why do you wanna know?

WW: For S16

Me: I called and checked on him a few times. He was fine.

WW: when you go outta town, it should be u telling me. Not S18. Hope you told my sister Hi for me.

Me: S18 told me he had talked to you about it. And u r always welcome to ask me about kids if you have questions. Your sister hopes you doing well. She misses you.

WW: Yeah, well you never planned to tell me anyways. U can have the rest of my family for Christmas too. Enjoy.

Me: I wasn't deliberately keeping anything. S18 said he mentioned it on Friday. And I don't know why u think it has to be either me or you with your family. Why do they have to pick a side? We can all get along just fine if you want.

WW: The only reason S18 told me was cause I specifically mentioned my sister. U didn't plan on telling me and it's BS.

Me: I had no problem telling you. I didn't think u cared. You go days at a time and don't tell me anything but get mad when I do the same.

WW: They don't have to pick sides but I'm sure you're buzzing in their ears. I don't feel like I have anyone now. Thanks

Me: I'm not buzzing anyone. I don't trash talk about you, in spite of what you think. And btw, ur sister was already going to the beach and told me she had invited you b4 she even spoke to me. Said she never got a reply. I mentioned I was taking the kids and we decided to meet up. There was nothing sneaky about it. I would have been happy if you could have made it.

My suggestion is that you quit trying to debate, explain, defend, attack, or anything along those lines. Let it go.

Instead, just validate.

"OK, W, I hear you'd like to be kept more in the loop." "I can see why you'd be upset with the idea of getting the kids in the middle of this. I appreciate you sharing that, and I agree it's a priority to keep whatever issues we have from impacting them".

Anything beyond that is useless. She's never going to agree with you. Anything you say will be twisted and used against you. Trying to point that out will only infuriate her further and escalate things.

Yup. Definitely time to cut her loose and say the minimum.

[Zues126]

Just wanted to add that I totally understand the urge. It took me a LONG time to really get over what STBX thought of me. And it was a little by little thing.

I think men care so much about what their woman thinks about them that it's easy to get to a spot where we don't know what to do anymore if it's not vying for their approval. And it is so devastating to be in a position where nothing you can do is good enough.

What helped me- I had a team of professionals. IC, DB coach, and an L. Any major decisions were run by 2-3 of those individuals. That way I knew I wasn't making emotional decisions when it came to parenting, communication, finances, etc. When STBX started spewing stuff about how 'unfair' I was being, it made it easier to dismiss knowing 3/3 of my professionals had insisted I take those steps and I was merely 'following orders'.

That, and after a few months I found out the truth. It's unfortunate but I had to demote STBX to a person beneath my attention, because she isn't treating me well enough to keep her place in my mind. The heart takes a little longer, but it does follow.

[dwh15]

Thanks Zeus. Just to clarify on that 1st part of the convo, I got nervous when she asked what time we got home. S16 was home alone all day, since he decided he didn't want to be at the beach. I did call to check on him a couple of times and he was fine. But I was worried that the question from WW had something to do with her keeping logs, similar to what I am doing. And I didn't want to give her an exact time I got home, so that she could try and use it against me later.

Overall, I agree with you though, and will try to keep it in mind for future use. As a quick update, WW did text about an hour after this all went down, and we made arrangements for her to come pick up S10 and S8 and take them shopping for new school backpacks. She stopped by briefly, we had some polite conversation about first day of school tomorrow, and as she was leaving, I told her I would be happy to let her know in the future about plans when I took the kids out of town. That seemed to make her happy, but her overall demeanor was still one of stress, which seems to be the case every time I see her lately.

[Vanilla]

That which Zues said ^^^^^^^^

I can see much justifying, but really you don't need to. Your s16 and s18 are old enough to R with their mum, just get out of the way would be my advice. If they can't cope then step in but otherwise "s16 and s18 can communicate with you WW directly, I Dwh have come to the conclusion that I can get in the way. Please ask them directly"

s10 and S8 somewhat different, but they too can chat to their mum and dad. Have you thought of an online schedule tool? I believe HeavyD uses one, and I forget who advised it.

Open about the younger kids (admin) and broad brush on the older boys and zilch nada on you.

Cards, close to and chest, in any order.

V