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Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: HPoirot] #2599982
08/20/15 09:07 PM
08/20/15 09:07 PM
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Joe46 Offline
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Solo, sorry for the bad news. You are getting excellent advice from Azzork and HP. I also was in a bad place when I cam here, like most of us. I am not a big one on giving advice, but I can tell you what has worked for me. Read and reread DR, all the posts in Cadet's welcome thread. Print off Sandi's rules. Even though you are hurting badly, GAL like never before. Take your kids with you. Take them anywhere. Find lots of fun things to do together. It helped me a bunch. WW complained about it, but so what!! She was to wrapped up in her A for me to include her in things. And I decided awhile ago that having a A was a deal breaker for me. I am NOT her plan B or the person she comes back to one day while trying to get over her "love affair". Stand up for yourself! But don't do it in anger! Do it because you want to learn from what mistakes you made in the marriage and not repeat them in your next relationship. And also because you want to be the better man and the bigger man.

I sat my WW down one day and apologized for all the wrongs that I KNEW I had done. I asked for forgiveness. That was me cleaning up my side of the street. After that, I went about taking care of myself. I knew that I did my best and also knew that the things I had done wrong in my marriage did NOT justify her having an affair. Today my focus is me and my kids. I don't think about WW very much. To be honest, I am happy she is not here. I am at peace. I am HAPPY NOW with me!! All I want to do is be the best DAD I can be for my kids. Hang in there!! It gets better!! smile


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: HPoirot] #2599983
08/20/15 09:09 PM
08/20/15 09:09 PM
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Posts: 6,810
Florida
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Starsky309 Offline
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Solo,

I just read your entire thread. You write really well, and there was a lot there to digest, but I really related to you as you are a lot like me.

Have you ever read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy?" It really helped me a lot, and you strike me as a classic "Mr. Nice Guy" and somewhere along the line, your wife continued to CARE for you, but she lost her ATTRACTION for you. And it became an endless cycle as you tried to please her even more, which caused her to lose even more respect (c'mon, saying "I love you" was the first thing you could think of after she just told you she had sex with another man in Europe?? REally???) . . . and it cycled downward.

The key to this for us classic "pleaser" types is to remain a nice guy, without being a "Mr. Nice Guy." Whether you apply this in a successful attempt to re-attract your wife or just as a way to improve yourself for your next relationship, I'd encourage you to do some reading in this area ("Hold onto Your N.U.T.S." is another good one, as is "Co-Dependent No More.") Somewhere along the line, I think you lost who Solo was, and became hopelessly enmeshed emotionally with your wife.

The key to marriage is to be each other's "frosting" -- NOT the cake itself. You need to get your mojo back, and that's not going to happen soon as you're still grieving, but it's gotta happen.

(((manly hugs))),


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Starsky309] #2599994
08/20/15 09:35 PM
08/20/15 09:35 PM
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mutatio Offline
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Solo, I started taking AD meds in March. By June I wanted to start tapering off of then. By the middle of September I'll be done with them. In march I really needed them and they took the edge off but now I'm done.

Solo the AD meds make a difference. Would you refuse antibiotics for an infection, insulin for diabetes or an inhaler for asthma?
You body has a short term imbalance due to depression. Reconsider the AD meds, they are not physically addictive and I doubt you would want them forever. You could be off them by Thanksgiving/Christmas.

Be well



“Character is destiny” Heraclitus
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: HPoirot] #2600024
08/20/15 10:41 PM
08/20/15 10:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 79
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Solo15 Offline OP
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Man that really helped me. Thanks so much for reaching out. I am so sorry you went through all this. I wouldn't wish this pain on anyone. I hear you about the txt, but in this one moment i was honest and needed a way of strongly defining my boundaries. I was also completely shattered and i'm giving myself a pass on that one. My plan going forward is just full plan b no contact. I actually think email is best. Trying to detach after all these years of being her sole support and best friend. I have never given so much or loved so selflessly and it is tough to repattern my brain, my heart to not be that. I feel like I gave the best things i have to her and i loved her so much. Killing off that instinct is like cutting off an arm, but i know i have to do it.


M 16y , T 18y , 3 Kids
7/14 ILYBINILWY
8/14 Takes off rings
5/15 OM, S
PA 8/15
10/15 A new hope. Rumbles of Reconciliation.
11/15 I can have what I want. What do I want?
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Solo15] #2600118
08/21/15 05:03 AM
08/21/15 05:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
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Georgia Bulldogs Offline
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You said awhile back the OM has a family....does the OM's wife know what is going on???

If not, you should tell her. Don't warn or threaten your wife with this or they will circumvent you doing so by intercepting your contact and portraying you as a jealous controlling [lying] husband. Just tell her the truth about her life so she can protect herself and her family from her husband and your wife. Regardless of the outcome of your situation, she has a right to know. As a Christian you know it's good to expose evil to the light. No more secrets. No more lying.

Married 16 years probably means your kids are old enough to know to. They must have been wondering what mom was doing in Europe FOR A MONTH. Your wife may be a liar and a cheat but you don't have to be a lie or cover up for her. I'm not suggesting a nuclear exposure like other forums but rather that you're honest with your kids when they ask questions. That your kids know that, at the very least, they can always count on you to be honest with them.


I've been recovered over a decade from my wife's long distance affair.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Georgia Bulldogs] #2600191
08/21/15 12:55 PM
08/21/15 12:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 79
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Solo15 Offline OP
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Joe46

Thank you so much for your post. I am really touched by your kindness and wise advice. It means a lot to me to hear that you stood up for yourself and your children. I am really grateful for your time and loving heart that would reach out to a perfect stranger to lend kindness in my darkest time.

Starsky309

Wow what a powerful post. Yeah, I have not read those books but have heard of them and looked into them at one point. You are spot on about all that. I know that these things are true about me. In fact, I struggle with this all the time. I dug super deep when I got hit with the ILYBINILWY bomb. I found a bunch of this stuff about me that I've grown to hate about myself. These things are the best of me, but I've let them devour me as a man. I do need to get my mojo back, and I have become codependent and weak. It started back when I had children. My wife's needs during that time, along with the changes that happen in a man's heart when they become a father opened the tap on my giving and loving nature. I poured it all out on them until I lost myself. It makes sense to me, but I am searching for how to regain what I once was. I know that attraction is the start, and my wife constantly telling me she is really attracted to me even when the affair was revealed confused me. But that attraction is one dimensional. It's not the kind that draws passionate love. She respects me as a man, but doesn't see me as a strong man. That is where I fell down. Thanks for reading my thread and the kind words, what a drama to wade through.

Georgia Bulldogs
Thank you so much for your post. I am a christian, and I struggle with what to do about that. In my head I want this woman to know to protect her family. I worry that it would make my wife insane once she found out what happened. That it would most likely push them together because I would be removing the biggest blockage in them being together. She does have a right to know. She also has a newborn, and I worry about the stress and heartbreak it would put on her in that postpartum place. My children are 9, 8, and 6. I don't know if they are really ready to know this. They are some of the sweetest and brightest lovely little girls in the world. I will give it some thought, but my gut is that they are still too young to know. Bless you brother for reaching out and I am so sorry that you went through this.


M 16y , T 18y , 3 Kids
7/14 ILYBINILWY
8/14 Takes off rings
5/15 OM, S
PA 8/15
10/15 A new hope. Rumbles of Reconciliation.
11/15 I can have what I want. What do I want?
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Solo15] #2600312
08/21/15 06:17 PM
08/21/15 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Solo15
Thank you so much for your post. I am a christian, and I struggle with what to do about that. In my head I want this woman to know to protect her family. I worry that it would make my wife insane once she found out what happened. That it would most likely push them together because I would be removing the biggest blockage in them being together. She does have a right to know. She also has a newborn, and I worry about the stress and heartbreak it would put on her in that postpartum place.


1. Your wife may go insane and absolutely be angry with you. She'll say "This is the last straw" and "I was thinking of giving you and I another shot but you just blew it". She may immediately file for divorce. Just remember this -

a. it's the right thing to do and nobody ever regrets doing the right thing

b. your marriage can survive her anger, but it can't survive her ongoing and no end in sight secret affair with OM

c. affairs thrive on an illusion - once the truth is out it's no longer pretend....real life and baggage comes into play instead of vacation romance at some hotel while he's supposedly on a business trip they've got to sneak around stealing conversations and moments in the dark like sewer rats constantly on guard and wondering who is watching them.

2. It MAY push them together but that's just temporary. Typically once the OM's wife finds out the OM dumps the side-piece and focuses on saving his primary relationship with his wife and family. That's not always the case. It's rare but some do file for divorce (some being some betrayed wives immediately file and some wayward husbands file to be with the affair partner). In those instances you are better off knowing NOW that that is going to happen than to prolong the agony of trying and holding on to the secret hoping you, alone, can manage to split them up. Besides, betrayed wives are SOOOOOOO much better at splitting up affair partners than betrayed husbands. If saving your marriage (or just getting a shot at saving your family) is your thought process here, you can't "save" anything until the affair is over and "no contact" is established.

3. The worry about her newborn and the shock sounds like a rationalization you are telling yourself to feel better about going against your instincts to tell her. Providing her the truth about her life isn't the problem or what will cause the stress, it's the fact her husband is cheating on her that is. She needs the information so she can protect herself from his abuse (adultery IS abuse).

4. The command "fear not" appears over 300 times in the bible. "Some time later, the LORD spoke to Abram in a vision and said to him, "Do not be afraid, Abram, for I will protect you, and your reward will be great." Genesis 15:1 (New Living Translation).

5. Again...do not discuss, hint or threaten telling OM's wife with your wife. It's much better to just do it (like ripping off a band-aid) and then stand by it as "sorry, but I felt it was the right thing to do and my feelings matter too".

Originally Posted By: Solo
My children are 9, 8, and 6. I don't know if they are really ready to know this. They are some of the sweetest and brightest lovely little girls in the world. I will give it some thought, but my gut is that they are still too young to know. Bless you brother for reaching out and I am so sorry that you went through this.


Just commit yourself to not lying to them on her behalf. Children are narcissists and will instinctually believe that the problems you two are having are about them. If and when you shoo-shoo them away from asking questions or try to tell them that what they are seeing isn't really happening they begin to question reality and wonder why all the adults are whispering and arguing in private and what they've done to cause this situation. Age appropriate things might include a statement like "mommy and daddy are having a relationship problem...when you are married you aren't supposed to have another boyfriend...I love you very much and this has nothing to do with you or your sisters...I love mommy and our family very much and hope things can be back to normal soon". Remember this always, they're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. If your wife didn't want her kids or anyone to know, she shouldn't have done it. If your children are in blissful ignorance then you can probably hold off for now. Really it depends on the kids. Our kids were inquisitive and the lessons they've learned about love, marriage and relationships in the 15 years since have been tremendous. Dishonesty serves no one but the devil.

Notice I didn't ever suggest saying "mommy and I love you all very much". You can't speak for your wife right now. Your wayward wife is in wayward mode and loves only herself right now. She doesn't "love" in the verb sense of the word, your daughters right now. Thus, you can't promise anything about their mother because their mother may just up and leave the country and abandon you and them tomorrow or next month. All you can promise and say is how you feel and what you will try to do and hope for.


After thought - it may be a good idea for you to have a handheld voice activated recording device on you to use to record any conversations you have with your wife immediately after you tell OM's wife. Many wayward wives take their anger to an extreme and either physically attack their betrayed husbands or even start punching themselves then calling the cops to have you arrested. The hope is that it will remove you from the home AND give them an excuse to tell others about how you are this abusive controlling husband before they find out she's dating some guy in another country. They also do it hoping that OM will leave his wife and come and save her from you. In other scenarios they just say all sorts of self-incriminating things like "I'll make sure you never see your daughters again and make you pay alimony through the nose"....which are statements wonderful to catch on a recording device if and when you ever proceed to a custody battle. Most likely you won't need it...but an an ounce of prevention goes a long way when things get ugly. I used a MP3 wristwatch with a recording function in my situation. Never needed it but documenting the truth about our situation ...just in case....helped alleviate some anxiety. Please realize that if OM lives out of the country and he has children there himself that the fantasy of them being together probably involves your wife getting custody and moving with her children to his country. Depending on your jurisdiction that is almost impossible to do but false allegations and charges of abuse would/could help her out immensely in achieving such. Watch yourself and don't allow yourself to get baited and have a recording device handy just to protect yourself from the somewhat common crap wayward wives pull.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Georgia Bulldogs] #2600346
08/21/15 08:35 PM
08/21/15 08:35 PM
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Solo15 Offline OP
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Georgia Bulldogs,

Really clear post. It definitely gives me something to chew on. I feel a lot of discomfort in it, and if I was closer to the situation I wouldn't hesitate, but his Fiance lives in Norway. When I became aware of the EA prior to it becoming fully PA I looked him up on facebook and found her as well. I'll have to give that one some time to think through. I'm in so much pain and everything in my life is crazy. I don't know if I have the strength to go through it. You have certainly challenged me. You are a man with a lot of character, and I value you taking the time to hold me accountable to doing what is right.

Some journaling to get some of the cobwebs out.

I took off of work today to get some distance and rest. Roll around in the pain a bit. I will have a free weekend. I decided to put myself first for a while, allowing me to find my center, read lots about my situation, and then when I feel ready, I will take action. I currently feel like going completely dark on her.

Since we were separated, and in her mind 'broken up' when it happened, she thinks it was morally fine. When we were talking after she told me about the PA, She brought up the conversation we had when I found out about the EA and challenged her about it. I told her that she would have to choose between me and him. I said that I wouldn't be a speedbump, a dog at her door, or a safety net. I said that I was her husband and that there was no room for him. I said that I had great worth, and would not be treated that way. She said that she was not going to stop talking to him, that she cared about him, and that they were friends and that I was blowing it out of proportion. It was just a 'crush'. I told her that she was going to do what she was going to do, and I can't control her but that I would have to do what I would do if it continued.

She has re-framed this into me saying "hey go get this guy out of your system! Your free!"

She does not realize that in doing this she made her choice. I was not saying, I'll be your best buddy and everything will be great and we can all just move through life while I provide everything, take care of you and the house, spend lots of time as a family and be your handyman and doormat.

What she really chose was a life without me. Since she is not repentant, and does not plan to stay in the marriage, I see the only rational thing to happen is to fulfill my side of the bargain. She does not get me anymore.

I am working through a plan to go completely dark. She has not accepted the enormity of what she has done. The betrayal. The lies. The sin of it. Hurting another mother like that. And most importantly, this was a cruel indulgence that threw away everything that I have ever been to my family. She thought nothing of me, nor can understand why I am so affected. She has no clue in her selfishness what this means, and that it's the most painful thing you can do to someone. She has given me a permanent wound. It's going to affect me the rest of my life. It will affect my future relationships, my sex life. I have and will have nightmares. It's an insane and vile act of indifference. This is not the way a best friend acts. In fact if a friend of mine were to betray me I would cut them out of my life too. I may be a giving person, but I'm not a doormat.

She has been texting me a lot.

Originally Posted By: W

'I miss you! Your my bestie'

'Will you ever be able to talk? Because I was under a different impression of the situation and didn't expect this and I'm heartsick about it'

'Also I think you are being horrible. After all we've talked about, and all the problems and closures between us, it seems so low that you would cut me off because of something you told me it was okay if I did. And something so personal to me. I should never have told you. You should never have asked.'

'But I love you, not strings attached. Take care of yourself.'


This is what I mean. It's all repainted to make her feel great about it. I am realizing in all this pain, she's always mistreated me and never fed my needs. Taking it day by day. I feel like I have Stockholm syndrome. Its a toxic relationship everyone in my life has been telling me to get out of for years.

This is the most confusing part for me. She says I am her best friend. She is physically and sexually attracted to me. I am a great father. I have been there for her through her whole life when no one else has, and through insane stuff few would stick around for. I am a great provider financially. She thinks I am 'lovely' and a great man. So what is the problem?! It feels insane. But at the end of the day, she just is not happy with me, and I've broken her heart by being blind to some of her needs. It makes me feel so broken up inside because I want hope that we could reconcile, but I know that's not a thing. This is maybe my opportunity to find real happiness, and to be with someone worthy of the best stuff I have to offer.


M 16y , T 18y , 3 Kids
7/14 ILYBINILWY
8/14 Takes off rings
5/15 OM, S
PA 8/15
10/15 A new hope. Rumbles of Reconciliation.
11/15 I can have what I want. What do I want?
Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Solo15] #2600354
08/21/15 09:08 PM
08/21/15 09:08 PM
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Azzork Offline
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There's a lot there Solo. I have other thoughts, but it's hard to type it all out on my phone. So I want to say this for now:

You have three elementary school aged kids together. There is only so dark you can go. Are you going to cover your face during parent teacher conferences? Are you going to be awkwardly silent during ballet recitals? You have at least 12 years left as co-parents. Plus eventually you'll be grandparents together. You just can't cut her out of your life completely, as much as I'm sure you want to.

So, I agree that you don't have to be friends. I agree that friends don't treat each other like she did. But I firmly believe that you are best off remaining friendLY towards her. No ignoring or blaming or punishing. It's friendly business, such as with a neighbor.

Just my initial thought for you, anyway.

Re: Finally asking for help: [Re: Solo15] #2600380
08/21/15 11:34 PM
08/21/15 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Solo15
Georgia Bulldogs,

Really clear post. It definitely gives me something to chew on. I feel a lot of discomfort in it, and if I was closer to the situation I wouldn't hesitate, but his Fiance lives in Norway. When I became aware of the EA prior to it becoming fully PA I looked him up on facebook and found her as well. I'll have to give that one some time to think through. I'm in so much pain and everything in my life is crazy. I don't know if I have the strength to go through it. You have certainly challenged me. You are a man with a lot of character, and I value you taking the time to hold me accountable to doing what is right.


I would encourage you to contact her, too. If the roles were reversed, wouldn't you want to know? This poor woman is having her life turned upside down, and she doesn't even know it. Please let her know so that she can protect herself. It will also have the side effect of driving a wedge between your wife and the OM, but that is not the reason to do it.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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