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Vanilla #2615426 10/13/15 11:00 PM
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That is true. I neglected to consider the fact that the surgery could leave both parents at risk. I think whatever decision you make is the right one.

Again, not help from here. Sorry.

mahhhty #2616724 10/17/15 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: mahhhty
She emailed me today, in response to last week. She was cordial. I'm on business today and had to let the email sit for awhile. She asked if I would like to see S open his costume (it came in the mail, it is a TRex and he is super excited). I said I would like to and that I am available tomorrow and the rest of the week. I think she wanted me to do it today. Oh well.

Last night, I crashed at my Sister and BIL's. They have 3 kids who see me as the fun uncle so that was a lot of fun. After the kids crashed we talked about the kidney situation.

Through some thought provoking discussions with them I've come to the realization, that I need to discuss it with her. I'm willing and able to do it. But it does put our kids in jeopardy if both parents aren't healthy. One of us has to be around for the next 25+ years. I also whitewater kayak like a fiend, which carries a level of risk on its own.

So I think my position is that if things for her are critical I will offer immediately. But I would like to hear her thoughts, and believe this needs to be a co-parenting decision.

Now that I've wrapped my head around that I need to figure out how I would like to approach it with her.

Also my D BDay is the 21st and her party is at my house on the 24th. It is about to get busy...



Real quick here.

Before I, as your friend, could ever support you giving her a kidney I'd want you to be 100% super sure she isn't (and wasn't) having an affair on you.

I know it probably feels like you are over it now...but if all this was because of some married dork at her office or some other guy she met at dialysis...and she destroyed you and your family over it....AND then you give her a kidney. That's just too much.

Even if it is revealed she had one...at least then you could decide to still give her a kidney with that knowledge. It's just he finding out afterwards.

PLUS - if she's wayward, then IMO, she's a pretty unfit parent and therefore you probably shouldn't be risking your life because your kids need you, their much more stable parent (emotionally and physically) to be around them...for sure and forever.

I don't know how you accomplish knowing "for sure"

perhaps:

1. Private Eye (what the heck is she up to when you are out of town or with the kids)

2. You follow her when she's not expecting it (or GPS her car)

3. Followed by straight up asking her - "I'm thinking about stepping up to the plate and giving you my kidney but before I do I have to be absolutely certain without a doubt that you didn't divorce me because you were cheating on me with another guy....I couldn't take finding out later that you betrayed me and then, without me knowing, took my kidney too. That's not to say I wouldn't donate it to you anyway...but I have to know the truth about why you really divorced me....a full honest explanation that, I feel, you've never given me"

4. Whatever she says....ask her if she's willing to submit to a lie detector test as a way for you to verify her words. (you don't have to follow through but she better believe you mean to follow through with the test - lots of people admit stuff on the way to the polygraphers office)

5. In the alternative - did she take 1/2 your retirement savings in the divorce? Ask her if she'd be willing to sign a document giving those back to you after the surgery if it is later discovered that she's lying.

Might seem extreme...but I can't imagine the pain of discovering she cheated a couple years down the road when she's healthy again and you have lingering pains, scars and/or other issues due to the surgery.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
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Quote:
Before I, as your friend, could ever support you giving her a kidney I'd want you to be 100% super sure she isn't (and wasn't) having an affair on you.


They are divorced so she can't be having an affair, it is simply a new relationship at this point. My 2 cents but I don't see Mahhhty contemplating this huge decision and then changing his mind based on her relationship status. Maybe I'm wrong...

Hey Mahhhty, how's it going? How did D's birthday party go? Anything new in Mahhhty land?


Me-44 (45)
H- 50 (51)
M-'96

S-18(20)D-15(17)D-12(14)

BD Feb 2014 (he works overseas)
home Oct(sep rooms)
(EAs possible Pa's unconfirmed)
insists wants D through July 2015
no more talk of D since
lost18 #2621539 11/04/15 05:47 AM
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Marty . . . Surprise! Just checking in on a long-time friend.


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Bob723 #2622774 11/10/15 12:35 PM
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Thanks for checking in on me guys. I have been really busy the last couple weeks. My startup is really taking off and I'm trying to make sure I'm in a place to take it live as early as January 1st. And I'm working on buying some space to run the business out of.

Besides that, here are the cliff notes.

Before D's Party, we got together at a coffee shop for about an hour and a half. We talked about planning for the party and the latest on her disease. I then explained to her that I had been tested and was potentially willing to donate my kidney, but if it came to that I would need to have a real conversation with her before doing so. I eluded to the risk for our children, but kept most of it vague. But I left the ball in her court. She said thank you (first thank you for anything in more than a year). After that she was very chatty about her work. Towards the end when conversation got light talking about herself, she asked me about me (first time in a year). I kept it light, probably said more than I wanted to about myself. Numerous times within the conversation her passive nature came out. One example was a story about her doctor and not asking questions. I was able to chime in and try to validate first and then redirect her passiveness.

The party went off fine my D had a great time. I tried to just stay away from X. When she was at the house. It feels too normal, so I just avoid her. And she had the kids that night, so they all left at the end of the night, which meant the house got very quiet.

I had the kids on Halloween. But I agreed to letting her have them from 3-5. Naturally, she didn't pick them up until 345 and didn't bring them back until 530. Almost ruining the plans we had to go with our neighbors.

Besides that, she routinely tries to be in control of the kids schedule. But routinely needs help, due to work or travel. However she only asks for help in the last minute. And thats when she asks, sometimes she just expects it to occur.

Now in addition to her, her dad needs a kidney as well, and her last grandmother is in assisted living. I truly feel bad for her family and what they are going through.

I don't call this person. I don't reach out to her in anyway besides the kids. I think in a way that was "dropping the rope for me." I have continuously tried to create an environment to promote a future with her. I'm seeing now that perhaps this isn't dropping the rope at all.


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
mahhhty #2622777 11/10/15 01:24 PM
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Hi. On the kidney thing , I have had two kidneys transplants and it's a gift that ( normally ) cannot be bought.

The effort of being on Dyalisis is incredible. I worked full time and did Dyalisis in the evenings and could hardly think straight during the day.

I would make very sure your in the correct mind frame to accept that this gift is given without one inch of self serving thought behind it

After all I have posted above I would struggle to give the gift to my EXW but I do like to think that I will get to that place one day.

Re the dangers , I'm in Ireland and the dangers are not significant while the pain is !!!!!

Just my thoughts from a very , very lucky and grateful transplant receiver

Take care. Rd

rd500 #2622826 11/10/15 05:39 PM
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Thanks RD, you are right. I think based on today, it would have been with some self-serving expectation.

Allow me to explain....


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
mahhhty #2622839 11/10/15 06:26 PM
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There was a development immediately after posting this AM. That had thrown me through a loop. I was told that X may be with someone, and to check out social media. I did and put the pieces together and found that it might be 99% accurate.

After reeling for awhile, I decided to bring, not email, not text, but bring my letter to her and confront her. The letter was mostly the same. This was impulsive, but I decided to listen to my gut.

I got there and asked to talk. Made small talk about the kidney transplant (she has 11 potential donors, thanks to her Mom's FB campaign). I gave her the letter and asked her to read it. She sat down and went through it. She didn't cry. She didn't get emotional. At the end, she asked when I wrote it and she said it was really nice.

Letter:
Quote:
X,
A person who loves their spouse does not do anything unloving or unkind in manner, word or action. Love is what love does. I was oblivious to your pain, and its depth. I trivialized your perspective, was consumed with distractions, hence withdrawn, amped up and overly critical.

As I am sure you felt, lying next to each other became the loneliest place in the world.

Divorce is an individual problem. It cannot be generalized. Of course, for some there should never be a marriage. For others, divorce is no more a solution than a marriage is for a lonely person. For me, it is unfortunate that your actions, not your words, were the catalyst I needed for personal growth. I lost my way and myself. I focused on being a victim circumstance in a situation I couldn't change or control, rather than being in control of my happiness and my life. I felt entitled to happiness, and expected it to happen to me without work or effort. Obviously, that is a ridiculous notion. Animosity and fear were in my closet on a personal level and as a partner, preventing me from confronting and being receptive to issues with empathy and compassion. I constantly felt my solutions were the only way and the correct way. I kept score, felt unloved, un wanted and unappreciated. I was in an emotional/physical rut, which felt like a grey cloud was over me.

I acknowledge and understand that you were deeply hurt. After all a woman who historically disliked change, sought the largest change possible for a family. On some level I'm sure there are people, actions, stories or events that supported the belief that divorce was your key to happiness. Without you explaining it, I won't ever understand your perspective or timeline. You don't make me happy, sad or angry, those are my feelings to deal with. I've worked through those in my own way at my own speed.

I am sorry for my contributions to our demise.

To say I have missed you would be an understatement. I hoped for many days that you would walk back in like you never left. It wasn't until a conversation with your parents when I understood you never would. Alternately, if it wasn't for you leaving I may have never taken a hard look at me. I'ver learned more about myself and relationships than ever before. My life is heading in a new direction. One that I control.

Surely, this letter gives you any ammo you need to reinforce the idea that I'm the cause of your unhappiness and you are a victim of my actions. I know you felt this at least once, when you said, "I wished you had hit me, so people could tell I was in pain." I no longer think that is a reflection on myself. I can already hear myself in my S, when he says "Daddy are you happy?" At the crux of me that is all I want, for the people around me to have fun and be happy. I wish you spoke up and did so before you wanted to leave. I imagine by the time you were able to stay it out loud, you were already thinking about leaving.

I believe we failed our children, our families, our vows, and each other. I believe the characteristics you and you're sister love about your parents are the exact ones we couldn't achieve by working together. I think its the hard times that make a lasting couple, not the happy ones. The grass is never greener on the other side it is green where you water it.

I know what we shared. I need no validation or concurrence to know that we had something most only hope to find. We were better together than we could have been apart. You were my puzzle piece. It came so naturally for me to love you since that fall night. Being a partner, being a parent, being overly career oriented, and working through the toughest part of the marriage map did not. My intentions was to know you everyday for the rest of your life, to give you the best of me everyday, and for you to be proud of your life and ours. I wanted to contribute to your happily ever after. Having a family. Writing a book. Going to Fiji. Any and all. Similarly, you were the only one I wanted to be a part of mine. These intentions were exploited by real life issues, which exemplified the lack of relationship skills necessary to nurture us through the toughest times.

It should be said that we know nothing of each other now. If not for the children we would have no relationship at all. Certainly that is true, which I find saddening. I never wanted to know a day without you, and now I have known far too many.

My hope for you is that you live life to the fullest, love and trust with every fiber of your being, that you confront your fears, and laugh with your whole body each and every day… “Live as much as you can, because you need something to write about.”

mahhhty


Perhaps b/c I wasn't getting the reaction I wanted we started talking. No begging, pleading or anything of that nature. But I did say, I have to know was there someone else. She said there wasn't but there is now. I pressed a little further to check the timeline of our divorce but she held fast that they were not together then.

At the end, I gave her a couple photo albums that she had done. One was the book she gave me after our first year together. 2 pages for every month, all scrapbooked together with at least one sentence for every get together for the year. I told her that was the most genuine present I ever received but it didn't feel right anymore.

About 30 min later, I receive this email:

Quote:
"I’m still processing what just happened and this letter, but I felt blindsided. Please don’t show up unannounced again. If you need to talk about something, then let me know and we can meet somewhere.

No need to respond."


Why would she respond confrontationally via email? She wasn't confrontational when I was there? and should I respond back?

I would imagine if I do, it will be to really drop the rope, identify that its over, and build a boundary as a business coparenting relationship.

I know I probably shouldn't have done all this. But at least now I know. I needed closure. I think I have it.

I'm ready for a nap, a beer, or to go boating...


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
mahhhty #2622847 11/10/15 07:23 PM
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Mahhhty, we are in different situations but both strayed from the book. I don't know how or if it would be best to respond to something like that but wanted to know I'm keeping an eye on you sitch and wish you luck!


Me 34, XF 27
Many years together
Son 4
Engaged
Not engaged
Many false starts by XF
7/16 new girlfriend comes into my life
2/17 girlfriend moves in my home


Uphill #2622881 11/10/15 09:45 PM
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mahhhty Offline OP
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Thanks for the support Uphill.

Its time for me to move on. I am starting to doubt that anything I do will have an impact on her.


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
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