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A Message from Michele
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Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Ripken8] #2584567
07/03/15 06:37 PM
07/03/15 06:37 PM
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sandi2 Offline
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Quote:
She stared in my eyes for a while, questioning it and then she realized I was telling the truth and I think it caught her a little by surprise.


Yep!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Ripken8] #2584571
07/03/15 07:09 PM
07/03/15 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
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Georgia Bulldogs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ripken8
Thank you so much everyone. It does help to know you all are there.

My ww called me while I was gal to let me know she was getting the dog tonite and om would be dropping it off and being introduced to the boys as a friend. I reiterated why I was frustrated and felt it could hurt the boys since its been two weeks since we told them about divorce. Also I just registered them for therapy and asked that we wait until the therapist says it's a good idea and they can process it.

She said she understood where I was coming from but she had a different perspective. We talked for 30 minutes and I told her she could pick up the dog or meet him and take it. He doesn't have to be introduced. She says she puts the boys first but if there's a chance they could be impacted like now, she's still being selfish instead of waiting.

Now I'm concerned about the boys but also concerned about us. Not as husband and wife but as how can I interact with her while she disrespects me and doesn't value my opinion. There's no compromise, just her way. I thought we made progress Sunday.


Your wife is a wayward terrorist. There is no negotiating or compromising with a terrorist. They will just take advantage of you.

I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.

I feel it is a disservice not to arm your children with the truth about their lives and allow and trust them to function within the truth as they see fit. They don't need all the juicy details but they should be aware of something like "one of several reasons that your mother and I are divorcing has to do with her inappropriate relationship with [full first and last name of OM]. You do understand that it's not appropriate for married people to date other people, right? Well I learned your mother was dating OM and, even though I was incredibly hurt I remained willing to try to save our marriage. Your mother and OM choose not to end their relationship so because of that and other private things between your mother and I we are where we are. I am not telling you this to motivate you to hate and I certainly don't want you disrespecting your mother or any other adult; however, I tell you this because I think it's important to be honest with you because this is your life too and you deserve the truth about what's going on around you here."

If you aren't sure then google information about telling children the truth. They need to truth to protect themselves. It's very inappropriate for you soon to be ex-wife to be sneaking a cobra into the home under the premise that he's her new supportive friend. I know you likely feel pressure to be kind. That being nice is the best way out or through this situation to a place where you and your STBXW can co-parent in ex-spouse harmony; but that's not going to happen unless she respects you. Keeping her secrets only enables more secrets. Be the parent where your children will seek and know truth. God knows, they aren't going to be getting it from their FORMERLY awesome mother.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Ripken8] #2584576
07/03/15 07:29 PM
07/03/15 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,686
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Originally Posted By: Ripken8
She then said she felt my problem with it was because of my personal feelings. I was honest, looked her in the eyes and told her that wasn't the case. When I look at her now I see someone I am not in love with and don't want to be with. I told her I'm all but moved on from her and the anger or hurt comes from the lying she did to my face and the disrespect. Pain I would feel toward any relationship I would have with someone, not because I want my wife back.
Hi Rip,

Wow, how powerful and well-played. Good for you! I have read your entire post a few times and the part I quoted above 5 or 6 times. Thank you for sharing. Someday, I may want to use this, or something very similar with my WAW. She, too, has told so many lies to my face, even before she filed for D.

I think you really caught her by surprise. Interesting...

Hang in there, mister. You have this!

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Georgia Bulldogs] #2584579
07/03/15 07:37 PM
07/03/15 07:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 747
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RAI Offline
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Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.
I agree with GB 100%. Telling the children that OM is "just a friend" is perpetuating a lie that your WW started a long time ago.

However, I don't think it is your job to clarify things with your kids. It is not healthy to talk about your WW or her behavior to your children. They need a mother and they need to see her in the most positive light, even if you know otherwise. They will find out on their own when they are old enough to figure it out. It is in the same spirit of letting your WW make her own mistakes. It is her lie to tell, and she has chosen to tell it. I think it is sickening that a WW can lie to their children as effortlessly as they lie to the LBS. But, it is beyond our control.

I was thinking about putting a "boyfriend clause" in the divorce - stating that any new beau in a parents life must be kept from the children for 6 months. This would apply to me equally. It would be in place to protect the kids. Have you thought about this?

Rip, I feel your pain because I am going through it too. I am surprised how mild-mannered you seem about it. Amazing how you can tell her that she is a great mother. I could never bring myself to say this. I think my resentment-meter is stuck on high. Kudos to you.

RAI


Me 45 XW 42
lots o' kids
D April 2017
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: RAI] #2584583
07/03/15 07:43 PM
07/03/15 07:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,686
Midwest
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Bob723 Offline
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Rip,

I meant to add in my post that I agreed with GB. I came back and see our friend RAI also agrees and had some good suggestions.

As RAI said, "Kudos to you."

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Bob723] #2584586
07/03/15 07:51 PM
07/03/15 07:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 747
USA
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P.S. I may be wrong, but I think raliced was very ticked off at her WH when he promised her he would not introduce OW to kids and proceeded to do so the next day. It does not seem like there is anything a LBS can do.

RAI


Me 45 XW 42
lots o' kids
D April 2017
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: Georgia Bulldogs] #2584597
07/03/15 08:44 PM
07/03/15 08:44 PM
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Posts: 316
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Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs

I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.

I feel it is a disservice not to arm your children with the truth about their lives and allow and trust them to function within the truth as they see fit. They don't need all the juicy details but they should be aware of something like "one of several reasons that your mother and I are divorcing has to do with her inappropriate relationship with [full first and last name of OM]. You do understand that it's not appropriate for married people to date other people, right? Well I learned your mother was dating OM and, even though I was incredibly hurt I remained willing to try to save our marriage. Your mother and OM choose not to end their relationship so because of that and other private things between your mother and I we are where we are. I am not telling you this to motivate you to hate and I certainly don't want you disrespecting your mother or any other adult; however, I tell you this because I think it's important to be honest with you because this is your life too and you deserve the truth about what's going on around you here."


I agree with this wholeheartedly. As the son of a wayward mother, I can tell you that I was and am very disappointed in my father for not telling me the truth. I'm not angry at him, and I don't hate him, but I am disappointed (I do not have a relationship with my mother anymore, because she is still wayward). Your children will be disappointed, too, if you do not tell them. Your WW is lying to them, and by remaining silent, you are complicit in the lie. It is not fair for your children not to know the truth of what's going on.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: wmwb123] #2584600
07/03/15 09:18 PM
07/03/15 09:18 PM
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Posts: 747
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Wow!

wmwb, you obviously have more insight into this than I do. How old were you when you found out?

I never thought about it, but I suppose by omitting details I am complicit.

Definitely something to think about.

Rip, you have a tough choice to make.

RAI


Me 45 XW 42
lots o' kids
D April 2017
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: RAI] #2584612
07/03/15 10:37 PM
07/03/15 10:37 PM
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Posts: 449
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Like it or not your children are learning lesson about life as your wife continues her affair, lessons that, I presume, you don't want them to learn.

Here's 3 such lessons:

1. How [NOT] to deal with emotional pain.

Children whose parents are experiencing marital strife are riddled with guilt, confusion, sadness, loneliness, sadness, fear, worry, abandonment, and many other hopeless feelings. When a child is losing the security of their parent's marriage they are in pain.

So what is such child supposed to do? How are they going to gain control in an uncontrollable situation? Out of the need to cope with these uncomfortable feelings derives a new rule about life, to wit, if a problem arises it is better to deny that there is a problem than to face it and feel the pain.

So your kids THINK: "I'm hurting but everyone around me is going to such lengths pretending it's all going to be OK so I better pretend too. Maybe this is how married people live. Nothing is really wrong about this situation. There really isn't a problem here. Just look the other way."

Your children learn to defend themselves from emotional pain by using the tried and true [unhealthy] defenses of denial and justification. Later in life, when your children face crucial problems instead of facing and solving those problems, they would deny their very existence and look the other way as it would grow and eventually overwhelm them

2. How to lie.

In order to maintain a secret second life, your wife needs to keep up the deceit. Your wife will soon be telling your sons not to talk to dad about OM. Your wife will explain to them that it is better that dad just doesn't know "because we don't want to make him upset." Your kids may recall how upset you were at mom for the divorce and decide not upsetting you is worth lying about. So with this newly learned habit of lying for mom, came a second rule about life, lying is allowed if it spares another from pain or spares yourself from punishment. They will also learn that lying is also allowed when it protects your privacy. Your wayward wife is likely already teaching them that everyone has a right to privacy in their life, even if it involves hurting people behind their back. Your kids will be told over and over by wayward mom that it is not dad's business to know what mom does. This was meant to justify the fact that mom was lying to dad. Although your wife was probably very honest and open person before the affair, she has now become quite an expert at deceit and privacy. Your kids are soaking in this model every step of the way.

3. How to be thoughtless.

Your wife is teaching your kids that doing what you please regardless of how it affects other people is an essential ingredient to "being happy". Your kids will learn how to take advantage of her friends and family when there was something in it for them. They will learn how to disregard others' suffering because they have a right to enjoy life to the fullest. All wayward spouses hurt the people they care about the most. Wayward spouses rationalize that they had to look out for themselves, take time for MEEEEEE, which is why they developed the relationship outside of their marriage in the first place. Their actions seem to benefit themselves in the short term, but it has disastrous effects on members of their family.

As the only truly responsible parent remaining, YOU have a responsibility to teach your children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness. That YOU and THEY need to consider other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise and perpetuate/enable lies and deceit is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.

This is NOT beyond your control or areas of influence. If your wife is not going to step up, own her mistakes, turn from her sin and make amends, you are going to have to explain and teach this stuff to your kids yourself because you are the only one that can. As long as your wife/stbxw remains on this path, she isn't a good mother anymore....so you're going to have to be twice the father you ever expected to be.

There is sensitivities surely to how to go about addressing these things but you can do it without technically "alienating" your wife and your children's mother. You should research this yourself and figure out the best way to do it. You will probably need to AFTERWARDS (PLEASE do NOT make the mistake of trying to discuss this with your terrorist wayward wife/stbxw...she's NOT co-parenting with you because she's not parenting at all right now...introducing OM to the children as a friend is NOT parenting), discuss what you said precisely with your wife/stbxw. The reason for this is simple. She's lying to your children and you aren't going to sit by and enable such. She needs to be aware of that fact so HOPEFULLY she will apologize to them and STOP lying. Regardless, she'll know that you aren't going to let her spin this story however she wants while you sit idly by. Yes...she'll be furious but you can co-parent after furious whereas when YOU compromise your integrity and start lying to your boys too, neither of you can co-parent at all.


Another thing I discussed recently on another thread. Children are narcissists. They think everything revolves around them. If your sons don't know about OM at all, they should because it's quite likely, despite your assurances, that they believe they had something to do with the divorce. Two young boys and their energy likely drove their mother a bit nuts at times, especially while she was conducting her affair and trying to live an alternate life of awesome fantasy waywardness behind everyone's back. Your boys likely FEEL their misbehavior had something to do with it. They NEED the truth so they stop blaming themselves and then they can put the blame wherever the truth leads them. Alienation rules and laws in no way require you to lie on behalf of your spouse/stbxw. How your boys FEEL and REACT regarding the truth is a consequence of adultery...NOT being honest.


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Re: Ripken - WW filed for divorce and already moved on [Re: RAI] #2584626
07/04/15 12:23 AM
07/04/15 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: RAI
Wow!

wmwb, you obviously have more insight into this than I do. How old were you when you found out?

I never thought about it, but I suppose by omitting details I am complicit.

Definitely something to think about.

Rip, you have a tough choice to make.

RAI


RAI, I was 7 when they divorced, but a teenager when I figured it out. Her POSOM physically abused my brother and I.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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