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I have been reading nonstop (on book #5 now) about affairs, marriage, how to make it all work and recover and I find the forums a bit unweidly at this point. I am hoping fellow posters can point me in the right direction. My funds are a bit tapped out at the moment (turns out staying together and getting divorced are both costly!) or I would definitely hit a coaching session. So here goes:

Background:
I am 45 and my H is 67. We have a 6 year old and have been married 22 years this summer (together 25). His second marriage, my first. We have gone through a lot over the years, but my job was relocated to Dallas two years ago and we had another significant event 2 years prior to that. So we have had about 4 years where things were really hard, we both needed each other, and we weren't able to give the other what they needed. So I understand how my husband found himself in an affair and I could deal with that part (although I have never felt so sick and tortured in my life).

When confronted, he stonewalled. We have talked a lot and I have been on the rollercoaster. We spent a few days in separate bedrooms and then had to come back to the same bed due to company visiting. A week later and I haven't moved back to the guest bedroom. He has been more and more affectionate, but has said he will not stop his affair. He feels confused, but I know (yes I am spying) that he is professing his love for her now since I insisted he was in love with her and that obviously gave him permission to say it to her a day after. Rookie step, I know.

He has agreed to go to marriage counseling (and I think we have someone solution oriented) and we go Thursday. He is convinced they will tell him to stop the affair and doesn't hold out hope for marriage counseling. It didn't work for his first marriage and doesn't think it will work here. We are also going to a marriage/communication retreat weekend mid-June to work on how to bring us close together again (with the OW still in the picture somehow - not sure how that is going to work).

After reading the Divorce Remedy and honestly not liking it at first, I have come around. I was (am?) having a hard time just "sucking it up" and acting as if nothing has happened. I know I would take him back after an affair, but I am having trouble accepting that I should take him back when he actually says how sorry he is to be hurting me this much and "the heart wants what the heart wants" and "he isn't sure he can get back to where we were" and therefore isn't going to stop his affair. But today I am able to swallow my pride and push my ego aside because I do still love him and know that our life post-divorce would be hell on our son like it was for at least 2 of his 4 kids when he divorced the first time. Full disclosure: he was separated when I met him, but got divorced after we had been together for awhile. I shouldn't be surprised it is happening to me now, should I? And happening at almost the same number of years it did with his first marriage. Hmmm...

My Questions:
1. In my state, my attorney has advised if I can prove inclination and opportunity for adultery, I don't have to pay spousal support. He is a dependent spouse and given his age, in our state I would likely pay a sigificant amount for the rest of his life. It would impact my son's quality of life not to mention mine. To prove this, I have to sneak, hire a PI, and get the proof I need. I ahve done all but gotten the iron-clad pictures I need. I am tired of reading the texts and the emails and feeling this way, but I feel like I also need to protect myself and my son. (BTW, my H is an excellent father, so I am not worried about that part.) How do I protect myself while "acting as if" and "taking care of me" and becoming the woman he wants more than his other. It is very duplicitous and I don't know if I can keep up both.

2. Given my H is being affectionate and loving while carrying on this relationship outside, do I respond to that or cut him off and just be platonic friends? I do want all of the love and affection he has to give of course (makes me feel desperate but love and affection are big parts of why we marry, aren't they?) and I feel like I can respond without appearing needy. I also wonder if it isn't a glimmer of hope while at the same time wondering if he is just placating me so I won't talk about the OW.

3. Should I move back to the other room? I took my wedding rings off Saturday and then went out with a friend (although I didn't tell him who I was going out with and looked good and returned happy). Apparently this really hurt him or struck him - he texted it to OW so he viewed it as a semi-significant event. I put the rings back on this morning. I figured that act and monitor was a sign that it was a bad move. I read a thread with WontStop (although not the whole thing) and really got confused on setting boundaries and how that fit in with the other recommendations in DR.

4. He wants time and doesn't want to have to choose between us. I told him he would eventually have to choose but that I would wait - I just don't know how long. I think I can stop talking about their relationship and even be a supportive "friend" when he talks about her and her problems. In my head I can wait the 6 months to a year. It has been about 2 months already. I am not sure how long my heart can sustain that perspective, but trying. I worry that if I am too cold (like taking off my rings seemed to indicate) that he will decide there is no hope for us because he will think I have made a decision. He can be/is very needy emotionally and is loving OW in part because she adores him right now. Watching them court is so close to how we courted it makes me sick to think about. But it also makes me think it will fade because it isn't unique or rich. He even admits that this is about him and not really either of us, although we both agree the issues in our marriage created the opening. So he needs attention from someone and if he isn't getting any from me, of course he goes to her. Where is the balance between being the woman he wants/doing things I know he wants and being detached?

Thanks all for any guidance and clarity you can provide. I have read Sandi's "Guidelines" and am working on those things, but there is a nuance I am missing. I am not ready to go beyond the last resort, but now that I am not SO crazy emotionally, I need to know the right next steps to steer this the right direction.

And the other issue: this is seriously impacting my work and I lead a small school. This is not the time of year to not be focused.

Thanks!
Aix
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Hi Aix, I'm sorry you're here, but you are amongst friends and you will find much support and wisdom on these boards. You'll be on moderation initially, but post little and often and you'll soon be off moderation. My thoughts on your questions are:

1) The motto here tends to be hope for the best and plan for the worst. If you need those pics, I would hire a PI, get them sorted and have them available should the 'worst' happen. Of course H never need know should you not need them.

2) I think this is less about DB and more about what you are comfortable with in terms of boundaries. Do you feel it is appropriate for your H to be conducting two R's simultaneously? Sounds to me like he wants to maintain the status quo. If you read Diffrent's thread in newcomers, the advice to her has been to stop her W and say - please don't do that, it's not appropriate.

3) Again, similar to 2. Do you feel comfortable sharing a bed with your H knowing that he is ML to another woman too? What are your boundaries on this? I moved out straight away, but others on the board have continued to share a bed. I would always suggest no is best - for your self preservation, detachment, and perhaps your presence will be missed. However, I would ask him to leave the marital bed, not you.

4) All unfaithful spouses want that. Oh, can't we just go on as we are? I really care about you. Oh, but I have feelings for her too. I just can't decide..In DB, the advice is not to issue ultimatums, but just begin to GAL, act 'as if' and see how things go.

Can I ask what happened in his previous marriage? Did infidelity play a part of the demise of that relationship?

Hang on in there and keep posting. I'm not going to lie - this won't be easy, but trust the DB process, it really does help people.

Take care, T :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Toots.

I was reading through one of your threads yesterday and appreciated your perseverance and courage! Your feedback is great.

If you ask him about his last marriage, it was dead after 12 years and yes he had plenty of affairs. He had been in therapy for a number of years and they went to marriage counseling together, which he says didn't work (hence his resistance now). When I met him he was separated from his wife and they had very little contact, but of course this was in the days of no email, cell phones, and long distance charges. He would say that when he met me he decided "enough is enough" and "this is different." So we continued our relationship and then a year later he officially asked for a divorce.

I have never suspected him of having an affair before. He has been very loyal. But he felt like I didn't respect him or even like him over the last few years and that we had grown apart. So when this woman entered the picture that really did so many of the things I did for him originally - and he will tell you that this is about him and a need he has that he isn't sure how to fill. It isn't about me or about her, although he has also said that he doesn't "know if he can get back to where we were." He "cares about me very much." Yeah - all things I really love to hear.

He can be very attentive, supportive, loving. He's a great father, a wonderful cook, and excellent at his profession. But he has a lot of baggage from when he was younger and really has self-worth issues among other things. When we agreed to have a child after 17 years of marriage (something that took a miracle given he had been treated for prostate cancer, a 25 year old vasectomy and was 60 at the time while I was 39), we agreed that he would retire and take care of our son. While he adores our son and is great with him, he needs more to be fulfilled which I am supportive of. But in those last 6 years, he has become financially dependent on my income (just like a stay at home mom would) and I think it is just too much on an already low self-esteem. He has been working in a field steadily increasing his work load over time, but still can't support himself. So part of his resistance to making a decision is around the fact that (a) he can't do it on his own and (b) we have a nice life that would definitely change for both of us and, importantly, for our son.

Because of the impact of his recurring advanced prostate cancer, I honestly don't think there is a full blown PA going on, but I do think there has been physical intimacy of some kind. I just don't have much proof and he isn't admitting anything.

Also since he has such a poor self-image, I feel like the more I create distance by sleeping apart and rejecting or withholding all affection, the more it confirms that she will give him what he needs while I will not. Given that is a complaint I received in the past, he wouldn't complain at this point, but would internalize the impact.

You are right that he wants to maintain the status quo. In earlier discussions he sent me a link about co-habitating after the divorce and why it is a good idea. Ug! He is also the kind of person who will do the opposite of what you want if pushed into a corner. I'll check out Diffrent's thread for more details.

This is incredibly hard; you are right. I am so sad to be here, but am reaching the detached phase which I have needed. I have barely functioned at work for a month and have lost about 15 pounds. The numbness feels good when I get it. Trusting the process feels easier than the alternative right now. Although I don't know if I want to continue to be married to someone who is so needy and is very unlikely to change, I don't know that I want to do this to our S and start over at 45 while paying him a good chunk of my now limited salary for the rest of his life. Trying to trust and be patient (and I am one of those fix-it people!). Thanks for the encouragement!!

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AIX,

Your husband needs to realize he is making a mistake. He is romanticizing this relationship with this other woman, and it looks like it does to him because it's an affair.

If he breaks the affair, and we all know that means you cut off all contact, and open transparency, he will feel some guilt and pain and lose any feelings of "power" he felt he gained by being able to have multiple partners, he will go thru some pain, but it will be much less than the pain he is putting you thru.

It will also be much less than the pain he will feel after you have left and he comes to grips he basically broke up his family over sex outside the household.

He's gotta understand this is a position millions upon millions have been in and it's nothing special.

If he ever loved and adored you before the affair, he needs to break it off completely and cleanly. He's hurting his wife and hurting his family and hurting himself too!

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Hi AIX,

I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Everything you do and say needs to be very strategic, especially regarding his affair. There is much that can be done Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Aix,

I'm sorry for what you are going through. It's really tough.

Here's my general take: DR does talk about boundaries: the Last Resort Technique, After the Last Resort Technique, and even ultimatums. Generally, these boards tend to not to discuss these things. If your husband is in an open affair and won't stop, and still lives with you, it might be a good idea to explore those options.

It's natural to want to "nice" a cheating, unrepentant spouse back into a marriage. Kill em with kindness, right? Wrong. Unfortunately, it generally doesn't work. This affair really isn't about you, it's about him. The longer you try to nice him back, the more you will personally disintegrate (emotionally/physically/professionally). In addition, the less he will respect you and desire you. What he's doing right now is called cake-eating.

I allowed my wife to do that while she was having an affair with my best friend. Needless to say, I'm divorced now. My wife, in the end, couldn't respect someone who made their own needs so small, and became a milquetoast and happy cuckold. People are attracted to strength, centered-ness and clarity. You are ANYTHING BUT clear, centered and strong when you are being torn to shreds and you are trying to people-please and walk on eggshells around a cheating spouse.

Here's my general advice in answer to your questions:

1. Get that PI to get proof for your lawyer. Prepare yourself, and your son, for worst. Prepare yourself for a life without him, with you keeping most of the money and the house for yourself and your son. Think of it as empowerment. You are doing what is necessary. You don't have to act "as if" and pretend you're groovy with him having an affair. Don't become the woman he can't resist. Become the woman YOU can live with. Take care of you for YOU. THAT woman, who takes care of herself, and takes care of business, is infinitely more attractive than a doormat.

2. You don't need to respond to his affection if YOU DON'T WANT TO. My opinion is cut him off. He needs to feel consequences for his actions. He can't have you both. Let him choose.

3. Ask him to move out of your bedroom. Tell him you are not comfortable sleeping in the same bed while he's having an affair. IF HE has the affair, he needs to move the other bedroom. Period. YOU shouldn't unseat yourself as the woman of the house and skulk off into another room because he's having an affair. He needs to pay for his actions. Make sense. The ring issue is purely up to you. WHAT DO YOU WANT? You can't use him a gauge for all your actions. He'll smell your desperation and exploit it. If you want them off take them off. Period. The more you act authentically, the more power to take back. Stop acting like your a footnote in his life.

4. Do not chase or pursue him. That has the reverse effect you intend. It smothers him. Also it lets him know you are a viable plan "B". Why should he decide between you when he has two women vying for his affection?

5. Start to set some boundaries. Financial? Spending your income on his affair partner? Can he text/call her in front of you? If you enable his affair, you aren't helping him. People respond to consequences for their actions. Really, they do. They also make you a more formidable, substantial person (which is, believe it or not, more attractive than a doormat). You are doing him a dis-service by allowing him to behave cruelly, immorally and selfishly without consequences.

You can't be his best buddy and listen to him talk about the OW. That means you don't value yourself. He won't value you either.

Take a look at the last resort technique in the Divorce Recovery book. It might be the first bit of sanity you feel. Then, try the AFTER the last resort technique (going dark). Then, the ultimatum. (Have all your legal ducks in row before giving him an ultimatum). Try the Last Resort Technique for 2 weeks, then the After the last Resort Technique for 2 weeks, then an ultimatum. That's if you can last another month.

Or you can simply say to yourself, 2 months of tolerating his affair has been enough. Get the PI evidence ASAP, and then give him an ultimatum. Don't tell him what to do, simply say, "I don't want to live in an open marriage, this is intolerable to me. IF you don't end it with OW and recommit to our marriage it looks like I have some decisions to make." Then walk away. Approach him the next day and ask if he's made a decision. If he says he's leaving her, then he must write her a goodbye letter and show it to you and initiate NO contact with her. There's good material on this on the web. If he hasn't made a decision or says he wants her, then divorce his a$$.

5. Take care of yourself. Exercise, take up some hobby that takes your mind off the affair (hiking, karate, rock-climbing). Find your inner warrior again. Become ferociously strong and beautiful.

My personal opinion is that infidelity is a pattern for him. He's morally weak. Given your age difference, I think he'd be worshiping the ground you walk on. At his age, he's supposed to be showing wisdom and strength. Instead his being foolish and selfish.

It wouldn't hurt for you to get a little mad (it often gives us strength) and realize you can probably do better. Get your game back. Stop being thrown off balance by his antics. Start making him worry about what his life will look like when he loses you.

--Theoden.




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So you said he had "multiple" A's in the past. How many was that? I have a feeling that he was in the WAS mode when he was in his first M and that he may have not told you everything that happened.

I have to also wonder if the age difference made a big difference. I mean you were only 20 years old when you went out with him while he was already 42.

How old is this current OW?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
So you said he had "multiple" A's in the past. How many was that? I have a feeling that he was in the WAS mode when he was in his first M and that he may have not told you everything that happened.

I have to also wonder if the age difference made a big difference. I mean you were only 20 years old when you went out with him while he was already 42.

How old is this current OW?


I'm kind of in shock here, because it is more the norm that the one who is "much younger" will do the cheating. I mean how much younger than 20 years could this man have gone?

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Wow- we have similar situations. I am 36 & my H is 57. He had an affair that ended earlier this year & we began to work through all that when another bomb hit us (this time my fault). But he has also had another marriage (a few actually) & he has a history of cheating. I thought we were different. I believe he was faithful for the 13 years of our relationship. He is also a great Dad & he and I were committed to not divorce because of the kids. He had a daughter from a previous relationship that was really traumatized by the divorce of my H & her mom.

So I really thought we were on the road to recovery from the affair. (Our relationship was similar with yours in that I had withdrawn from the relationship due to built up resentment & he had pursued me for many years. He ended up feeling like I was done with him & not really interested in him anymore which led him to be really lonely & he sought solace in the children. Then this OW happened to catch his attention at a new job & the rest is history).

Now I have really hurt him & while he told me a few days ago that he is not so angry anymore, he hasn't said anything about whether he wants to work on our marriage or if he intends to just live amicably but not romantically. I am trying not to be the pursuer and letting him address this with me but the waiting is hard. Also, I am concerned that he has taken back up with the OW. I want to ask but I am waiting to see if he brings up the topic of our relationship first. (Again, trying to not be the pursuer.)

But I am really just amazed at the similarities in our situations. My H intends to retire down the line and become the stay at home parent (I am currently) but I guess I kind of thought that he would be less likely to enter into an affair if our positions were reversed & he was much older... but I guess not!


T: 14 M: 12
D: 9 S: 6
BD: 2/18/15 (H affair)
Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15
Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15
H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15
H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15

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